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Re: Not sure I follow your point about bankruptcy
St. Croix 1252 reads
posted

I still own BAC. Shame on me for not following my own advice. Guess I am firmly in the marikod 'buy and hold' camp. Nevertheless, I am actually optimistic on financials for 2011, though it seems like everyone is too optimistic for 2011, and the counter-intuitive move would be to sell. I expect a small correction, because the market has been on a tear since Bernanke's QE announcement in August. Anyways, the market usually goes up when an old NFL team (NFC plus Pitt, Indy, Cleveland) wins the Super Bowl. Green Bay and Pitt makes this year a lock. Hell, that prediction is probably as good as Whitney or anyone else on CNBC.

My point on bankruptcy, whether private or public, allows the entity to restructure its debt. GM did as you mentioned. Airlines have mastered the art of bankruptcy filings and restructuring. As a result, bond holders take a significant haircut. Health care and pension liabilities are usually the two most significant cost items, specifically at the state level. You can't touch health care per se, but why not allow States to restructure, and more specifically renegotiate its current pension obligations?

Look, I know it will never happen, but the GOP has drawn a line in the sand that the States will not get a Federal bailout. Illinois almost doubled its state income tax, which I might add is not a progressive tax. California's top rate is 9.3%. Plus they hit the rich again with an extra 1% on income over $1M. When you aggregate the various taxes (income, sales, vehicle, property, etc), California is in the top 3. So yeah, I take exception to the low hanging fruit point.

Next stop is Vegas for the Super Bowl. I have absolutely no clue which way I will bet. I'm surprised at the amount of action being placed on the Packers. And no I will NOT stop by at the Priapus buffet, nor play any of those stupid video poker games.

jerseyflyer4574 reads

In transoceanic aviation, there is a point on the flightplan called the equal time point, ETP. Prior to that point in the flight, if the need exists to turn back to the departure airport, sufficient fuel is available to do so. After passing the ETP, the only correct decision is to continue to destination, regardless of what the emergency condition is. Upon reaching the ETP, there is no further discourse. Having said that:

In 1928, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Louis Brandeis wrote, "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

My question is, have we reached our political ETP? Is there no going back to the freedoms we previously enjoyed, or are we bound to the destination where the government is the be-all and end-all in the decision making process, regardless of the effect it has on it's citizens? The Patriot Act is a perfect example. It's promoted purpose was to 'protect' us from terrorism, to benefit the citizens by securing our safety. In effect, it eliminated many freedoms stated in the Constitution. Our privacy, first and foremost. The FBI can pretty much now do whatever they wish.

IMHO, very little privacy now exists. Take your SSAN for example. Do you have any idea how many orginizations have access to your social security account number? That number originally was intended to NOT be used for identification. At one time, "This number not to be used for Identification" was printed on the SS card. No longer on there, is it? Why is that, I wonder?

Some privacy has been voluntarily given up. Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, and numerous other sites have enough information freely given that it is easy for someone's identity to be taken at will. Operation Echelon, begun in the Clinton administration, was originally designed to be a marketing tool for the government to track individual purshasing habits. It evolved into a monster that now tracks EVERY transaction that involves a plastic card with a magnetic strip on the back. You use an ATM, they know it, you buy gas with your Shell card, they know it, use e-zpass on the turnpike, they know it, and they have your time on, and time exiting, and if you shorten the recommended travel time for that route, they know you were speeding, and you may just get a ticket in the mail, and so, on and on.

Obamacare is another boondoggle that will have a burdensome effect on businesses. But it was passed 'for the good of the country'. The record keeping mandates, fees, penalties, regulations in it are to this day, still not 100% known. I was completely satisfied with my private health insurance coverage. In the government's attempt to do good for those without healthcare, whether they wanted healthcare or not, now due to bureaucratic blundering, everyone's policy premiums are increasing. So much for 'quality, affordable healthcare'. You can't add 30 million to the healthcare roles, dependents to age 26, and those with pre-existing conditions, and expect premiums not to increase. And to establish a nationwide computer database with everyone's medical records on it.....that's the LAST fucking place I want my medical records to be. Talk about an invitation to violate privacy, hackers will be in there in no time at all. You want Wikileaks, or whomever, to publish that info online? Yet, the government says it is for our own good to establish that database.

And lastly on this rant.....spending. There is no question it is out of control. Doesn't matter which political party is in power, they are spending madly, and saying it is for our good. 99 weeks of unemployment insurance? Bullshit. I know several people that will not return to work because they have no incentive to do so for the next, almost, 2 years. Earmarks, pork, whatever it is called, has to be curtailed. It is pure vote buying at taxpayer expense. Take Senator Nelson's (D) Nebraska, vote on Obamacare for example. But he did it for our good.

Can we turn back, or has the political process passed the ETP and we are destined down the road to bankruptcy?  



-- Modified on 1/25/2011 8:04:10 AM

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marikod1368 reads

I simply can’t contemplate that we can continue spending so irresponsibly without causing a fiscal disaster down the road. Meredith Whitney has predicted 50 to 100 municipal bond defaults this year which if true will have profound consequences for our economy. Most experts say she is dead wrong but that’s what I said in 2007 when she predicted the big banks were going down at a time when other experts were talking about a once in a generation buying opportunity, and I’m still paying for that one.

     Have we reached ETP on spending? Maybe so.

      But I think you are overstating the loss of privacy and constitutional rights. We were certainly headed that way in the Bush years when Bush used fear mongering to justify government invasion of our rights but the Obama admin has righted the ship a bit in that respect. No, the FBI is still very much constrained in what it can do.

       If anything, we have too many constitutional rights which prevents much needed common sense legislation. Gun control restrictions are being invalidated every day under the Second Amendment. You still can’t fire incompetent minorities without being sued under the Fourteenth Amendment. Government ability to take property for public use is limited by quacky interpretations of the Fifth Amendment.

       Look at California for example. That state cannot run itself bc so many voter initiatives have been placed into the state constitution. They need to raise property taxes immediately but they can’t bc of Prop 13. My god they even have put a victims right bill in the constitution so you can’t release prisoners without consulting with the victim, as Arnold has ruefully discovered.

      So I don’t see an ETP problem on that front. But on the spending front you may well be right.

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sitaradevi1390 reads

Just wanted to address your point on SPENDING.
It really seems to me that we are living in a period of time where making $$ is a struggle and more and more folks are relying on CREDIT CARDS to meet their needs. More people are living beyond their means and by using credit cards to help meet their expenses its only a "band aid" type solution that has many pitfalls later on. I think that more credit counseling programs are needed to help the everyday consumer learn how to use these little plastic cards wisely and I sure hope we have more consumer education programs available across the country soon. Now that I think about it, these programs would be really wise for our Govt. officials as well, right?


Sitara Devi

Related Link: http://www.sitaradevi.com

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St. Croix1744 reads

There was a quick segment on CNBC that caught my interest today. It was during Erin Burnett's segment at 11:00AM PST. The guest said, "if you look at America's balance sheet (assets and liabilities) you'd get a different picture, and not one of doom and gloom. First, I'm not justifying, nor minimizing a $14.1T deficit. But when you factor in household assets, corporate assets, and small business assets, the total comes out to be $105T. On the other side of the ledger, household liabilities, corporate and small business liabilities, and the $14.1T debt, total liabilities equals $47T. Our national wealth is $58T.

Now back to muni's and Meredith. She did say there will be no defaults at the state level. Most, if any, will be smaller municipalities. I'm not an expert in this area, but I believe the smaller municipalities, cities and counties can file for bankruptcy. I would assume if there are defaults that they would coincide with a prepared bankruptcy. States can't file for bankruptcy, but I understand there are discussions to allow them to do so in order to address their crushing debt, which is directly tied to underfunded pensions. It's either that, or draconian cuts in order to match revenue with services.

I know you have been on this Prop 13 kick, and we've discussed it before, but if you give the State of California a reprieve, do you honestly believe they will get religion, use the money exclusively for deficit reduction, and not continue their reckless spending? If California's state income and sales tax were competitive with other states, you might have an argument. But California is already one of the highest tax states in the union.

I will give you credit for not towing the party line one way or another.

Now take those nude pictures of Meredith Whitney off your computer. Or at least replace them with Trish Regan or Erin Burnett.

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marikod1434 reads

True counties, municipalities, cities (San Diego may yet file for bankruptcy)  and for that matter any agency or political subdivision of a state may file for bankruptcy under Chapter 9 if they are insolvent, but how does that help?

      Even if a city affirmed its obligations to pay for essential services and employee salaries in a prepackaged bankruptcy, a bankruptcy filing would still wipe out the city’s credit rating and raises credit costs and bond insurance on future bonds astronomically.  And credit might freeze up entirely if Meredith is right that we face  100 defaults in a year.

      Now if you could get rid of legacy costs –bloated city pensions -like GM did in a bankruptcy it might be worthwhile but I don’t think that is allowed under Chapter 9 and at best there would be years of litigation to resolve this complex question.

     Bond obligations are a relatively small part of a municipal budget and just bc a city decides to default does not mean they are insolvent and eligible for Chapter 9.
As you probably know, California tried to raise sales taxes with Prop D but it was voted down. Spending continues to exceed revenues in many if not most municipalities.  But again, the property taxes are the low hanging fruit that the Constitution forbids picking, even thought the beneficiaries of this amendment are the very rich and it is the poor that suffers the most from cut back in public services.

   Meanwhile, BOA is sinking again. I hope you got out at $15 with an $8000 profit on your shares if I calculated correctly.
BOA is losing money, yet the CEO says they are going to raise the dividend...sign... go figure.


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St. Croix1253 reads

I still own BAC. Shame on me for not following my own advice. Guess I am firmly in the marikod 'buy and hold' camp. Nevertheless, I am actually optimistic on financials for 2011, though it seems like everyone is too optimistic for 2011, and the counter-intuitive move would be to sell. I expect a small correction, because the market has been on a tear since Bernanke's QE announcement in August. Anyways, the market usually goes up when an old NFL team (NFC plus Pitt, Indy, Cleveland) wins the Super Bowl. Green Bay and Pitt makes this year a lock. Hell, that prediction is probably as good as Whitney or anyone else on CNBC.

My point on bankruptcy, whether private or public, allows the entity to restructure its debt. GM did as you mentioned. Airlines have mastered the art of bankruptcy filings and restructuring. As a result, bond holders take a significant haircut. Health care and pension liabilities are usually the two most significant cost items, specifically at the state level. You can't touch health care per se, but why not allow States to restructure, and more specifically renegotiate its current pension obligations?

Look, I know it will never happen, but the GOP has drawn a line in the sand that the States will not get a Federal bailout. Illinois almost doubled its state income tax, which I might add is not a progressive tax. California's top rate is 9.3%. Plus they hit the rich again with an extra 1% on income over $1M. When you aggregate the various taxes (income, sales, vehicle, property, etc), California is in the top 3. So yeah, I take exception to the low hanging fruit point.

Next stop is Vegas for the Super Bowl. I have absolutely no clue which way I will bet. I'm surprised at the amount of action being placed on the Packers. And no I will NOT stop by at the Priapus buffet, nor play any of those stupid video poker games.

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marikod2177 reads

on your trip.

      But my point is that I don't think a city CAN structure vested pension benefits under chapter 9. Unvested per the City of Vellejo case can be changed but not vested benefits and this is your problem.

       It would be a lawyer's holiday though. Did you know that the Orange County bankruptcy cost 100 million? Check out Ms. Goldsmith's article where she debunks the bankruptcy myth, and at least reconsider your plan to pass up on Priapus's tour of the buffet. You've got to give the guy credit - he is a master in this field.





Related Link: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/14/san-diego-bankruptcy-talk-nonsense/

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BreakerMorant1363 reads

asset ratio. Here is my question; what happens if the value of those assets do not rise but instead decline. What if revenues decline? What happens to American balance sheet values if the US dollar loses stature as the world reserve currency? Then instead of dollars Americans have to pay for foreign oil in yen, yuan, euros or SDR's etc?

On another note, Gov. Moonbeam err Jerry Brown is counting on reducing the State of California financial budget deficit by cutting costs (allegedly) and will ask the voter for tax increase in June. What are the odds of the voters approving a tax increase?

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St. Croix1167 reads

Tell me what you think. I've never seen it put it in this perspective. The Fed provides this info on a regular basis. No other country does so. Why wouldn't you loan the U.S. money with a balance sheet like this. Obviously this balance sheet has improved dramatically over the past year, i.e. stock market and corp wealth. No wonder we are the world's currency reserve. I'm not justifying the $14.1T deficit.  

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1766040494&play=1

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holeydiver1673 reads

Posted By: jerseyflyer
In transoceanic aviation, there is a point on the flightplan called the equal time point, ETP. Prior to that point in the flight, if the need exists to turn back to the departure airport, sufficient fuel is available to do so. After passing the ETP, the only correct decision is to continue to destination, regardless of what the emergency condition is. Upon reaching the ETP, there is no further discourse. Having said that:

In 1928, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Louis Brandeis wrote, "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

My question is, have we reached our political ETP? Is there no going back to the freedoms we previously enjoyed, or are we bound to the destination where the government is the be-all and end-all in the decision making process, regardless of the effect it has on it's citizens? The Patriot Act is a perfect example. It's promoted purpose was to 'protect' us from terrorism, to benefit the citizens by securing our safety. In effect, it eliminated many freedoms stated in the Constitution. Our privacy, first and foremost. The FBI can pretty much now do whatever they wish.

IMHO, very little privacy now exists. Take your SSAN for example. Do you have any idea how many orginizations have access to your social security account number? That number originally was intended to NOT be used for identification. At one time, "This number not to be used for Identification" was printed on the SS card. No longer on there, is it? Why is that, I wonder?

Some privacy has been voluntarily given up. Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, and numerous other sites have enough information freely given that it is easy for someone's identity to be taken at will. Operation Echelon, begun in the Clinton administration, was originally designed to be a marketing tool for the government to track individual purshasing habits. It evolved into a monster that now tracks EVERY transaction that involves a plastic card with a magnetic strip on the back. You use an ATM, they know it, you buy gas with your Shell card, they know it, use e-zpass on the turnpike, they know it, and they have your time on, and time exiting, and if you shorten the recommended travel time for that route, they know you were speeding, and you may just get a ticket in the mail, and so, on and on.

Obamacare is another boondoggle that will have a burdensome effect on businesses. But it was passed 'for the good of the country'. The record keeping mandates, fees, penalties, regulations in it are to this day, still not 100% known. I was completely satisfied with my private health insurance coverage. In the government's attempt to do good for those without healthcare, whether they wanted healthcare or not, now due to bureaucratic blundering, everyone's policy premiums are increasing. So much for 'quality, affordable healthcare'. You can't add 30 million to the healthcare roles, dependents to age 26, and those with pre-existing conditions, and expect premiums not to increase. And to establish a nationwide computer database with everyone's medical records on it.....that's the LAST fucking place I want my medical records to be. Talk about an invitation to violate privacy, hackers will be in there in no time at all. You want Wikileaks, or whomever, to publish that info online? Yet, the government says it is for our own good to establish that database.

And lastly on this rant.....spending. There is no question it is out of control. Doesn't matter which political party is in power, they are spending madly, and saying it is for our good. 99 weeks of unemployment insurance? Bullshit. I know several people that will not return to work because they have no incentive to do so for the next, almost, 2 years. Earmarks, pork, whatever it is called, has to be curtailed. It is pure vote buying at taxpayer expense. Take Senator Nelson's (D) Nebraska, vote on Obamacare for example. But he did it for our good.

Can we turn back, or has the political process passed the ETP and we are destined down the road to bankruptcy?  



-- Modified on 1/25/2011 8:04:10 AM

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mattradd1284 reads

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St. Croix1230 reads

Looks like TER can't handle Chinese characters. Tried to insert a few, but at the end of the day the only Chinese I need to learn is "get out of the fast lane asshole."

The above is with all due respect to GaG. Somehow I believe he is the only Asian American that actually drives faster than the speed limit.

-- Modified on 1/25/2011 11:48:15 AM

-- Modified on 1/25/2011 11:50:58 AM

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mattradd1226 reads

in my mail notice. Ya, I haven't learned that phrase yet. But, the biggest trouble I have with the Chinese drivers in my area, is them navigating double lane left turns on a light. They tend to want my inside lane upon turning left. lol

Oh, hell with the characters; knee how maw?

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GaGambler2966 reads

I am not Asian American, I am just a non-hyphenated American with slightly slanted eyes, but I am one who knows how to drive, unlike many.

I have a friend of mine, Chinese descent, born in Canada, who I swear has never driven over fifty miles an hour. She drives me fucking nuts when I ride with her. I can see the backup behind us, but she just drives on, completely oblivious to the two mile long back up behind us. lol

and don't forget "Gung hay fat choy", lunar new years is only a little over a week away

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St. Croix1417 reads

I tried to copy and paste the Chinese characters, and what I got was question marks. I don't know about you, but I'm not learning 47,000+ Chinese characters.

I've been to multiple countries in Asia, and the funny thing is, over there they drive OK, meaning the speed limit or faster. I haven't figured out if it's paranoia, or other factors for driving slow.

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GaGambler838 reads

It also happens to be significantly accurate,and it also applies to Mexican drivers, who also seem to drive at half the posted speed limit.

Maybe we just don't want to be drafted into NASCAR?  Can you imagine a bunch of Asian bubbas? lmao

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THESPORTCAPITAL850 reads

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St. Croix2843 reads

Check this out. So UC Irvine has determined that serving chicken and waffles on MLK day is insensitive. You have got to be kidding. Chicken and waffles is pretty damn popular in the black community.

Ever been to Roscoe's House of Chicken and Waffles? I have, and it was full of very satisfied black customers. Maybe UC Irvine forgot the Mac & Cheese. Maybe they should have served chardonnay and a fondue (lol). Dave Chappelle would have a fucking field day with this shit.

Dude, don't go to UC Irvine on Chinese New Year. They ain't serving Kung Pao Chicken, egg rolls and a fortune cookie. Maybe we can hire a few guys to slaughter a lamb kosher style in the middle of the cafeteria on Yom Kippur.

This insensitivity crap by guilt ridden lilly white liberals has got to stop.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0127-uci-mlk-20110127,0,2259024.story?track=rss

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GaGambler890 reads

He doesn't want to order the chicken because of the stereotypes attached to a black man eating chicken, but he LOVES chicken. lol

As you probably already know, I am one of the least sensitive people you will ever meet where it comes to race and being PC.  

and I plan to be balls deep in some slanteyed girl come Chinese New Year, I will be eating crawfish on Fat Tuesday, and drunk as hell on St Patties day. Let me ask you, are you really a racist if you make fun of "everybody"?

oh one other thing, it might be a stereotype, but Mexican and asian drivers truly are the worst in this country. If that offends anybody, well I am sorry, NOT lol

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St. Croix920 reads

That was frigging funny. I don't know why he disappeared, but his stuff is classic.

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GaGambler936 reads

He finally got his multi million dollar contract and flew the coop. I would expect him to be smoking his brains out on some mountain top, ala Ricky Williams. lol

Good for him, but too bad for us. I found him hilarious.

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charlie4451675 reads

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holeydiver916 reads

Surely they can borrow money from the Chinese to teach everybody their language.

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mattradd1004 reads

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madiba512141 reads

Heard someone say that last night. America has risen to challenges in the past, and it will rise to this one too.

Technical innovation is the key to America's growth.

Posted By: holeydiver
Posted By: jerseyflyer
In transoceanic aviation, there is a point on the flightplan called the equal time point, ETP. Prior to that point in the flight, if the need exists to turn back to the departure airport, sufficient fuel is available to do so. After passing the ETP, the only correct decision is to continue to destination, regardless of what the emergency condition is. Upon reaching the ETP, there is no further discourse. Having said that:

In 1928, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Louis Brandeis wrote, "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

My question is, have we reached our political ETP? Is there no going back to the freedoms we previously enjoyed, or are we bound to the destination where the government is the be-all and end-all in the decision making process, regardless of the effect it has on it's citizens? The Patriot Act is a perfect example. It's promoted purpose was to 'protect' us from terrorism, to benefit the citizens by securing our safety. In effect, it eliminated many freedoms stated in the Constitution. Our privacy, first and foremost. The FBI can pretty much now do whatever they wish.

IMHO, very little privacy now exists. Take your SSAN for example. Do you have any idea how many orginizations have access to your social security account number? That number originally was intended to NOT be used for identification. At one time, "This number not to be used for Identification" was printed on the SS card. No longer on there, is it? Why is that, I wonder?

Some privacy has been voluntarily given up. Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, and numerous other sites have enough information freely given that it is easy for someone's identity to be taken at will. Operation Echelon, begun in the Clinton administration, was originally designed to be a marketing tool for the government to track individual purshasing habits. It evolved into a monster that now tracks EVERY transaction that involves a plastic card with a magnetic strip on the back. You use an ATM, they know it, you buy gas with your Shell card, they know it, use e-zpass on the turnpike, they know it, and they have your time on, and time exiting, and if you shorten the recommended travel time for that route, they know you were speeding, and you may just get a ticket in the mail, and so, on and on.

Obamacare is another boondoggle that will have a burdensome effect on businesses. But it was passed 'for the good of the country'. The record keeping mandates, fees, penalties, regulations in it are to this day, still not 100% known. I was completely satisfied with my private health insurance coverage. In the government's attempt to do good for those without healthcare, whether they wanted healthcare or not, now due to bureaucratic blundering, everyone's policy premiums are increasing. So much for 'quality, affordable healthcare'. You can't add 30 million to the healthcare roles, dependents to age 26, and those with pre-existing conditions, and expect premiums not to increase. And to establish a nationwide computer database with everyone's medical records on it.....that's the LAST fucking place I want my medical records to be. Talk about an invitation to violate privacy, hackers will be in there in no time at all. You want Wikileaks, or whomever, to publish that info online? Yet, the government says it is for our own good to establish that database.

And lastly on this rant.....spending. There is no question it is out of control. Doesn't matter which political party is in power, they are spending madly, and saying it is for our good. 99 weeks of unemployment insurance? Bullshit. I know several people that will not return to work because they have no incentive to do so for the next, almost, 2 years. Earmarks, pork, whatever it is called, has to be curtailed. It is pure vote buying at taxpayer expense. Take Senator Nelson's (D) Nebraska, vote on Obamacare for example. But he did it for our good.

Can we turn back, or has the political process passed the ETP and we are destined down the road to bankruptcy?  



-- Modified on 1/25/2011 8:04:10 AM
-- Modified on 1/26/2011 9:49:57 AM

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BreakerMorant2402 reads

cautioned Americans on the use of too many regulations resulting in bureaucratic blundering and indeed that is exactly what is happening. Your post is disconcerting because damn Jersey, how can we go back? Google, the IRS and banks already know most of our business.

Tell the American people Social Security benefits will no longer be provided and you would have a national revolt. Health Care will lead Americans to be even more dependent on a blundering bureaucracy. And as we become more dependent on the government to provide for us, we lose our independence. Freedom which was the reason for the American Revolution in the first place will only be faint memory. At that time, ETP may indeed have passed.

If Obama is the captain of our airplane my question is, when do we pull the emergency exit handle? Should I carry my own parachute? Hey in the Army we were taught to always have an exit strategy.
Good post.

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anonymousfun1484 reads

Can't be OBAMA, can it?

Posted By: jerseyflyer
In transoceanic aviation, there is a point on the flightplan called the equal time point, ETP. Prior to that point in the flight, if the need exists to turn back to the departure airport, sufficient fuel is available to do so. After passing the ETP, the only correct decision is to continue to destination, regardless of what the emergency condition is. Upon reaching the ETP, there is no further discourse. Having said that:

In 1928, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Louis Brandeis wrote, "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

My question is, have we reached our political ETP? Is there no going back to the freedoms we previously enjoyed, or are we bound to the destination where the government is the be-all and end-all in the decision making process, regardless of the effect it has on it's citizens? The Patriot Act is a perfect example. It's promoted purpose was to 'protect' us from terrorism, to benefit the citizens by securing our safety. In effect, it eliminated many freedoms stated in the Constitution. Our privacy, first and foremost. The FBI can pretty much now do whatever they wish.

IMHO, very little privacy now exists. Take your SSAN for example. Do you have any idea how many orginizations have access to your social security account number? That number originally was intended to NOT be used for identification. At one time, "This number not to be used for Identification" was printed on the SS card. No longer on there, is it? Why is that, I wonder?

Some privacy has been voluntarily given up. Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, and numerous other sites have enough information freely given that it is easy for someone's identity to be taken at will. Operation Echelon, begun in the Clinton administration, was originally designed to be a marketing tool for the government to track individual purshasing habits. It evolved into a monster that now tracks EVERY transaction that involves a plastic card with a magnetic strip on the back. You use an ATM, they know it, you buy gas with your Shell card, they know it, use e-zpass on the turnpike, they know it, and they have your time on, and time exiting, and if you shorten the recommended travel time for that route, they know you were speeding, and you may just get a ticket in the mail, and so, on and on.

Obamacare is another boondoggle that will have a burdensome effect on businesses. But it was passed 'for the good of the country'. The record keeping mandates, fees, penalties, regulations in it are to this day, still not 100% known. I was completely satisfied with my private health insurance coverage. In the government's attempt to do good for those without healthcare, whether they wanted healthcare or not, now due to bureaucratic blundering, everyone's policy premiums are increasing. So much for 'quality, affordable healthcare'. You can't add 30 million to the healthcare roles, dependents to age 26, and those with pre-existing conditions, and expect premiums not to increase. And to establish a nationwide computer database with everyone's medical records on it.....that's the LAST fucking place I want my medical records to be. Talk about an invitation to violate privacy, hackers will be in there in no time at all. You want Wikileaks, or whomever, to publish that info online? Yet, the government says it is for our own good to establish that database.

And lastly on this rant.....spending. There is no question it is out of control. Doesn't matter which political party is in power, they are spending madly, and saying it is for our good. 99 weeks of unemployment insurance? Bullshit. I know several people that will not return to work because they have no incentive to do so for the next, almost, 2 years. Earmarks, pork, whatever it is called, has to be curtailed. It is pure vote buying at taxpayer expense. Take Senator Nelson's (D) Nebraska, vote on Obamacare for example. But he did it for our good.

Can we turn back, or has the political process passed the ETP and we are destined down the road to bankruptcy?  



-- Modified on 1/25/2011 8:04:10 AM

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jerseyflyer784 reads

No, not Obama alone, but he is running full speed ahead toward making the country totally dependent on the government. I believe it started with Wilson, further progressive moves by FDR, LBJ with his 'Great Society' had much to do with where we are now, and GWB wasn't exactly tight on spending either.....not in a good place for our future.

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anonymousfun2302 reads

Is that it?

Suppose, all of us should go back to 1700 and bring back the cow boy era. I am for it. Who needs all the damn roads, sky scrapers, electricity, phones, etc. All of it complicates our life ( I am serious). Shit, I like to be able to grow my food - eat, make my liquor - Drink, have sex and fall asleep. Get backup the next day, do it all over again.

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St. Croix1162 reads

In an earlier post you claimed to be an independent. Pick one, because they ain't the same.

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anonymousfun1150 reads

How did you come up with that logic? Is there some kind of list with check boxes to fill out ? Where do I send it  to get approved as an independent?

General theory of independent is that they don't belong to any political party. My theory of independent is is that they have independent thought, doesn't belong to any political party and they support ideas and not party.

Progressives are those with world view and accepts world changes and believes societies need to change based on changes occurring around them.

Progressives can belong to a political party or not.

What is your 2¢?

Posted By: St. Croix
In an earlier post you claimed to be an independent. Pick one, because they ain't the same.

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St. Croix1681 reads

Go talk to a number of self-described Progressives, and ask them not only how they vote, but there general view on issues. Their views are almost the polar opposite of self-described right wing conservatives. There are no Progressives in the Republican Party. 99% of the time, Progressives will vote in bloc with the Democrats.

Now take a look at the following link. These are the views held by Progressives. Scroll down to get some of the bullet points. Do Independents buy into a couple of those issues, maybe. Trust me, Independents and Progressives share very little in common, just like Independents and hard core Conservatives share little in common.

http://www.progressive.org/wx081010.html

-- Modified on 1/27/2011 7:38:14 AM

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mattradd1299 reads

I think more in terms of an ecosystem. With your ETP analogy, the focus is on where you are leaving, where your destination is, and if you can return to your point of origin if something prevents you from arriving at your destination.

With an ecosystem analogy, there is no point a and point b. Rather, you have all sorts of living things vying for resources for self-sustenance and self-propagation. When the types and amounts of specific resources change, that impacts upon the viability of each individual organism, and groups of organisms. The ecosystem never remains the same, and seldom returns to a previous state of being. Some of the organisms fail, thrive or just maintain during these changes. Just like some of us, individually, and as groups. So, what is most imperative is the focus on the resources of our ecosystem, because that will determine the health of our ecosystem, and who lives, who dies, and who thrives. That issue is going to impact our country tremendously over the next 20 years, and we better adapt or we will look nothing like we do now, as a country.

Oh, and most of my experience with ETP was not about getting from point a to point b, but can we find that fly-boy who ditched at sea before we have to return to point a. ;)

-- Modified on 1/26/2011 7:56:50 PM

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