People believe what they want to believe, and that's ok. It's all good- participating in this thread has been fun.

What I propose we do is very little. Our history (if one bothers to read, learn, or teach it any more- from many of the responses on this thread it seems doubtful) is littered with "interventions" that have been far worse than what went before. Just look at the mess we've made of Iraq. For all its warts and wrinkles, it was a functioning society where people knew when they woke up the next day that they'd have clean water and could go to their job, school, etc. God knows what they're dealing with now- but I don't imagine things there will return to normalcy for decades to come. It's not just the complete obliteration of the infrastructure, but the destruction of social cohesion, networks, livelihoods, and the environment. Prior to our war on them we'd been dropping depleted uranium bombs on the country throughout the time of the sanctions. The birth defects caused by this are truly unbelievable. If you have a strong stomach, look at this link. DO NOT CLICK ON IT!!!! if super horrific graphic images of babies and children will upset you!!

http://www.google.com/search?q=depleted+uranium+birth+defects+2000&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=dTF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=CjW4T7jgKoik8gT-tY2nCg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CFQQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=593

One thing we can do is stop propping up dictators in the first place. That would go a long way to preventing a lot of what we've seen over the past 10 years. So I guess that's what I would propose- stop trying to control the world.

Yes, I suppose so. Silly me, eh? Maybe I should just stick to Fox news so I don't get anything wrong in the future.

-- Modified on 5/19/2012 8:49:45 PM

Let alone change ours.
You barely understand the propaganda that you are reading in the first place.

1. What political assassination are we taking up in Afghanistan. Both Mullah Omar, OBL, Ayman Zawaheri are declared terrorists and have UN resolutions to that fact. Moreover, war in Afghanistan is sanctioned by the UN. So you the resolution doesn’t apply. It would help your understanding when, why and what is included in Executive Order 11905. Read the entire order instead of citing one section.

2. No on behalf is conspiring against any government including Pakistan. They joined the NATO coalition in the beginning. Doesn’t apply.

3. Suppose UN is an international body, and War Against terrorism is UN authorized war and EU, and non-EU nations support using drone. Doesn’t apply since this is a UN authorized war and there are numerous UN and EU resolutions to that effect. Look it up.

4. It does meet military necessity. Taliban routinely attack our troops from across the border from Pakistan. Pursuing the enemy across the border is a necessity of war. Condition met.

5. War against Taliban and Al Queda is authorized by the UN. There are numerous additional UN authorizations by the Security Council and the UN General Assembly. Conditions met. Moreover, the troops in Afghanistan includes US, UK, France, Germany, Australia, Poland, Italy and Russia in Northern Part.

6. Obama just extended the use of Drones was well under way during the Bush administration. Obama is not being sneaky, he said he will against Taliban hideouts instead of risking the lives of US troops by relying on intelligence from an unreliable ally, i.e., Pakistan. Nothing sneaky and if you are part of the “it is Obama’s fault” chorus, logic, reason and rationality will not work for you.

Oxford research group is partisan organization, hoping to influence those, who are not well informed to make their opinions stick.

In the final analysis, there is nothing illegal, sneaky or immoral. I would have agreed with you if you were speaking of war in Iraq but I do not agree with you because Taliban and their supporters Al Queda was the most fanatical and brutal regime known to man. They even made Nazi look better.

Go read about Taliban rule in Afghanistan, there is plenty of material available free on the net if not, a visit to the local library would be worthwhile.

Mr. No Good, it is clear you are Clueless from your daily musings of disasters and everything is disaster waiting to happen to you. Enjoy.

where everyone is against war. Human history is replete with war and it shall continue as long as we live to satisfy our greed, have huge egos, influenced by man made religion and continue the practice of using god against each other.

The order of human evolution is:

Man created god, god created religion and god and men together divided the earth and humanity forever.

It would be worthwhile for you to find out how many innocent including women children the Taliban and Al Queda supporters have blown up not only in what is called the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan, Karachi, Peshwar and many other cities and towns. Pakistan government states Taliban, Al Queda and their sympathizers have killed over 300,000 so far. These people have planted bombs in super markets, street markets, have blown up schools, mosques, churches, etc.

By the you may not know, the Jirga was controlled by Taliban and they were beheding those who didn’t support the Jirga. There is more to this than meets the eye. If you had followed for last 30 years, you would have known. Like I suggested, hit the local library.

start reading non-partisan stuff, do some research of your own and read some scholarly books and articles, your views will be based on baseless partisan organizations of one type or another. All of them are created for one thing and one thing only, influence your brain and make money on the way to make founders wealthy and keep those that cannot be employed in anything else employed.

Yes, I have very low opinion of all of these organizations because they are all pushing one agenda or another.

Suppose you are against Nuclear Energy. If Google images are true, then 1 in 10 babies born in EU have to be deformed and at least 2 in 10 babies born France have to be deformed since France gets 97% of its energy from nuclear plants.

Images are for visual effects with sole purpose of engaging your emotional brain before your logical and rational brain engages. In this case it served it intended purpose.

No one knows there weren’t any deformity before the use of Uranium. Australia has the largest Uranium reserves followed by the US and such concentration of Uranium and continued exposure to it must have had an effect.

on this topic than we usually get.

      As far as "changing someone's mind," I don't think that is the goal - engage, educate, and discuss is how I see the Board.  And only 6 or 7 typically respond - you have over 65 reads, so who knows the impact on those readers.

the problem is not negotiating with countries like Spain, France, Germany, the problem is dealing with counties run by Islamic religious zealots who have no respect for life and can not be reasoned with.

Go ahead, stick out your hand in friendship, and then decide what to do when they cut it off...

as far as Afghanistan, but not other places we use drones, which is what my comments were aimed at. I should have clarified- apologies.

No- I don' think it is Obama's fault that we began using drones in this way (CIA as opposed to army; assassination as opposed to part of a military operation), but it is his fault that he has embraced and expanded this.

Please provide some non-partisan information for me to read. I will happily do so.

I do find it bizarre that when Obama's done something to further Bush's policy, partisans on both sides seem to lose logic: Bush supporters act as if Obama was the first to do this, and Obama supporters act as if there is nothing wrong with what he's doing, yet were vehemently against Bush's same (but less extensive) policies.

I am not partisan. I hate war and violence and killing, period. I don't care who is doing it. And I will criticize any part of my government when it does these things. It is my right as a citizen.

This may be the first year I write in a candidate.

of how bad the Taliban is, believe me. This was an area of my research back in uni. I am also aware that we built them pretty much from scratch to fight the Russians. If you had been following this for 30 years you should know that. Nice of you to suggest I hit the local library, but I hardly think they will have the kinds of materials needed for a thorough analysis that my uni library has and that I have read. Perhaps you could hit your local uni library to learn more about how we made Obama what he was and even paid him handsomely for it?

I will say again what I said in another thread- that while every government has blood on its hands, I have no control or say in changing them. I do, however have a say (ostensibly) in what my own government does. And that is where it is best to concentrate whatever energy I can afford to put into this.

in the direction of some "sensible" literature.

I only used the article from Alternet because it was written about Jeff Sharlet, who's been researching religion in America for a little over a decade. He wrote a brilliant expose of "The Family" in Harper's in 2003 (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525). You should check it out. (Is Harper's a baseless partisan organization? I'll agree that they are likely biased towards the left, but hardly baseless.) His book C Street takes his research findings even further.

Please , as I said, make some suggestions for me. I am perfectly willing and happy to change my mind about just about anything if I read something that makes more sense to me. Really!

It's interesting that someone who is so critical of my intellect is unaware of the difference between depleted uranium-infused projectiles and uranium reserves or nuclear energy...

But so we can continue this discussion, I will include the following info:
Depleted uranium is stockpiled here in the US as waste we don't know what to do with. We have sooo much of it. It is used extensively by the military in projectiles (bullets, bombs, etc.), as well as in other ways. I have even read where it was suggested to be used in highway pavement.

When a DU projectile makes impact, the particles become widespread in the forms of dust and fragments. It can be breathed in by people where it has been heavily used, and is extremely harmful internally. It poses a particular threat to future children of men who have been exposed.

The good news is that people are working on the issue of environmental impact.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13829-fungi-lock-depleted-uranium-out-of-harms-way.html

The debate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm

The proof of harm:
"Children of British soldiers who fought in wars in which depleted uranium ammunition was used are at greater risk of suffering genetic diseases such as congenital malformations, commonly called 'birth defects,' passed on by their fathers. In a study of U.K. troops, 'Overall, the risk of any malformation among pregnancies reported by men was 50% higher in Gulf War Veterans (GWV) compared with Non-GWVs.'"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
International Journal of Epidemiology study link: http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/1/74

Use in Iraq:
Depleted Uranium Radioactive Contamination In Iraq: An Overview
http://www.brussellstribunal.org/pdf/DU-Azzawi.pdf

I still have hope.

the news reporter captured by the 'good guys'..the ones with a 'just cause'..the ones that judiciously stay in step with their religious beliefs.......and his fate was?

yup...beheaded..on camera.
contact that group Sara, let's negotiate..

to think that someone could change *my* mind.

So that I can once again believe, as I did when I was a little girl, that America is that beautiful, wonderful country safeguarding freedom and human rights here and around the world.

I do love a good discussion!

Daniel Pearl?

Ask his wife what she thinks.

You have no idea who or if I might have lost someone on 9/11.

anonymous.. He struck me as someone not awake.. if he just posted what he posted and honestly believes in what he said... Then surly the next step is to do something to get humanity where we need to be, even if it's just working on yourself

If you have read one, you have read them all.

Posted By: SoftlySarah

in the direction of some "sensible" literature.

I only used the article from Alternet because it was written about Jeff Sharlet, who's been researching religion in America for a little over a decade. He wrote a brilliant expose of "The Family" in Harper's in 2003 (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525). You should check it out. (Is Harper's a baseless partisan organization? I'll agree that they are likely biased towards the left, but hardly baseless.) His book C Street takes his research findings even further.

Please , as I said, make some suggestions for me. I am perfectly willing and happy to change my mind about just about anything if I read something that makes more sense to me. Really!

of political reasons not scientific. Look Mox and reprocessing uranium to find out what is done with depleted uranium in the rest of the world.

Science knows what to do with it, we don’t want to.

Not so fast to call someone dumb. Moreover I am not critical of your intellect just the source of your information.

I am sure we are in agreement on this particular issue. The article (which you probably haven't read) is all about a die-hard set of ultra-religious right-wing nuts who are pretty much succeeding in taking over the government. And they are succeeding because people don't know about them. But here is an opportunity for many people to learn all about them. All you have to do is get past your preconceptions about what kind of an article I might be linking to.

From the publisher:
Checking in on a friend's brother at Ivenwald, a Washington-based fundamentalist group living communally in Arlington, Va., religion and journalism scholar Sharlet finds a sect whose members refer to Manhattan's Ground Zero as "the ruins of secularism"; intrigued, Sharlet accepts on a whim an invitation to stay at Ivenwald. He's shocked to find himself in the stronghold of a widespread "invisible" network, organized into cells much like Ivenwald, and populated by elite, politically ambitious fundamentalists; Sharlet is present when a leader tells a dozen men living there, "You guys are here to learn how to rule the world." As it turns out, the Family was established in 1935 to oppose FDR's New Deal and the spread of trade unions; since then, it has organized well-attended weekly prayer meetings for members of Congress and annual National Prayer Breakfasts attended by every president since Eisenhower. Further, the Family's international reach ("almost impossible to overstate") has "forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most oppressive regimes in the world." In the years since his first encounter, Sharlet has done extensive research, and his thorough account of the Family's life and times is a chilling expose.

Posted By: anonymousfun

If you have read one, you have read them all.

Posted By: SoftlySarah

in the direction of some "sensible" literature.

I only used the article from Alternet because it was written about Jeff Sharlet, who's been researching religion in America for a little over a decade. He wrote a brilliant expose of "The Family" in Harper's in 2003 (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525). You should check it out. (Is Harper's a baseless partisan organization? I'll agree that they are likely biased towards the left, but hardly baseless.) His book C Street takes his research findings even further.

Please , as I said, make some suggestions for me. I am perfectly willing and happy to change my mind about just about anything if I read something that makes more sense to me. Really!

I didn't call you dumb. I apologize if that's the way my post came off. I promise to be more careful from now on.

The MOX fuel thing is interesting. But going back to your question- if I am against nuclear energy- yes, I am. I don't think we should be producing something when we don't know how to safely clean up after ourselves. And the consequences are huge and irreversible.

I googled MOX and from what I can tell, it's best use is for creating more supplies of weapons-grade plutonium. It doesn't reduce waste at all- it actually creates more waste. Maybe I am missing something?

That is how most countries deal with their so called nuclear waste instead storing it.