There are always a few loons on the fringes of every group or movement, which explains why in the past 40 years a very insignificant number of people have taken violent action against abortion clinics. Indeed, there are only a handful of cases in the decades since Roe v. Wade of any violence, and it was always isolated indivduals.
On the other hand, whether it is the G8 meeting or the conventions or any other number of events, if you read that windows were smashed, tires slashed, or fires were set, you can bet which side was involved.
Every year, the right has demonstrations on the steps of the Supreme Court. I don’t remember reading any stories of it getting violent.
Why is it that the group demonstrations from the left so often sink into violence and destruction and group demonstrations from the right do not?
don't leave us in suspense ... I'm sure you're going to tell us ....
Actually, I really was throwing it out as a question to get other opinions.
I am not really sure why, since it is just something that I thought of for the first time this morning reading the news. As a result, I am more impressed by the pattern than able to offer an explanation as yet.
I do have a vague theory that the left tends to be more angry, but I haven't really thought about it before, so it hasn't reached the stage where I would want to give a detailed explanation. (Even that is less of an explanation than a correlation of anger and violence. It is kind of redundant to say that the violent are more angry, so I admit there is a level of circular reasoning.)
The left is made up of a high percentage of general riff-raff. They have no morals, no sense of responsibility, no ethics, no honor, no pride, no interest in working, no interest in the truth and they believe that whatever comes into their puny minds at any given moment is ok, inlcuding having child like temper tantrums in effort to get their way. In short, the lefties are a gaggle of shit.
While some of that may be true, it doesn't answer the question totally, which is why I really posed it, and why I don't know.
For example, a lot of the Code Pink People and Cindy Shehan crowd (sorry if spelling is wrong) are not in that class. Yet, the are prone to more disruptive demonstratons than the right. In fact, the early student "demonstrations" would not fit that pattern of "riff-raff," but they still turned to take-overs and violence.
That could be part of the picture, but I still am not sure why this happens.
Many of the leftys have limited intellectual scope and limited capacity to follow an extended chain of reasoning. (I lifted that from somewhere else but I won't say where) hehehe
it came from "The Art of Rhetoric" By Aristotle, Hugh Lawson-Tancred
harryj >>> such eloquence ... Churchill couldn't hold a candle to you...
The Right Wing are privileged to be bestowed with such reasoning emanating from your esteemed brilliance.
This is a good example of the anger that I see on the left.
Instead of explaining why the post about "riff-raff" is theoretically or factually incorrect, in the type of manner in which I questioned some of the premise, PPL just gives a sarcastic and rather snide remark about the prior poster's Churchill-like eloquence and "esteemed brilliance."
Of course, this addresses none of the premise presented, but it displays a level of anger.
As I said, the anger is part and parcel of the violence, but I know so many people in that category and I cannot understand why they are so angry.
(And don't just say "It's the war and killing that makes people mad." The anger far preceded the war and is on display in other contexts as well.) The tendency to anger and violence is endemic to the left.
Allow me to correct you ... in my reply to harryj, it's NOT anger but utter disdain & contempt that I wished to convey. His piece was a tirade & deserved to be treated with condescension.
If you want to find anger READ what harryj said:
"The left is made up of a high percentage of general riff-raff. They have no morals, no sense of responsibility, no ethics, no honor, no pride, no interest in working, no interest in the truth and they believe that whatever comes into their puny minds at any given moment is ok, inlcuding having child like temper tantrums in effort to get their way. In short, the lefties are a gaggle of shit."
I, on the other hand, asked you to enlighten us on your posit ... feel free to do so once you've distilled the other gems you are bound to receive.
-- Modified on 9/5/2008 4:08:10 PM
The tendency to anger and violence is endemic to the left.
If that is true, then it is balanced by the tendency towards holier than thou self-righteousness and arrogant pomposity on the part of the right.
When some right wing conservative Evangelical asshole claiming to be speaking for God tells me my way of thinking is wrong, my God is incomplete, and I will only be saved by accepting JeeeeeZuz in my heart, I WILL get angry, and say FUCK YOU! Who the hell do you think you are?
When some fascist hate-monger like Anne Coulter spews the vile invective for which she is SO well known, and beloved by a number of right wing conservatives for it, yes you damn right I want to bite her head off, shit down her throat, and feed her carcass to my friends pirahna.
When the Presidency has been blatantly corrupted by the conservative right wingers, and used for the enrichment of a private agenda, I definitely want blood. I want justice, I want to see them in fucking JAIL!
The left is angry and violent because of the damn arrogance and catastrophic mistakes committed by the conservative right wingers in the name of God, and Country and Jeezuz Kryst and the Almighty Dollar Say Halleluya!
Sorry folks, I just had a really hot argument with my extremely religious orthodox chassidic family. I can tell you first hand what its like to have to deal with blind zealotry on a daily basis, and sometimes, yes... sometimes, I wish I could lose my conscience.
The difference between todays left and right is simple. The Conservative Right wing sees things only one way. Their way. There is no room for compromise, no room for discussion, no room for opposition. My Way or the HighWay. And they are Unified in their stance. That is their strength. Their unified position that they, and only they kno0w whats best for us all.
The left is still comprised of Free Thinkers and disjointed groups who want to see a better world for everyone, not just the privileged.
But when you distill it all down into raw politics, they are all manipulated by the Powers That Be, who own and operate the strings controlling the leadership of both major political parties. And so they pull the strings to tug at one side or the other depending on who's turn it is.
It's all a sham. It's all a farce.
I'm voting for None of the Above.
DoctorGonzo"When some fascist hate-monger like Anne Coulter spews the vile invective for which she is SO well known, and beloved by a number of right wing conservatives for it, yes you damn right I want to bite her head off, shit down her throat, and feed her carcass to my friends pirahna."
You talk a big game when she's not in front of you..If you were to try and mess with Ann she would bitch slap you, and shove your head so far up your ass you couldn't break wind.
Thats what a conservative woman would do when threatened by a pompous egotistical bore huffing and puffing..
No violence against women no matter how stupid you are!!!
I absolutely agree, no violence against women.
But since when is it a crime to merely think of doing something reprehensible?
Do not for one moment think if she and I were ever face to face and she were to strike me that I would just turn the other cheek.
I'm not one of her farkahkta 144,000.
But really quad, we don't need to go there, do we?
but I can't agree with your view of the left through rose colored glasses. This very forum should be enough to make you realize that the right has no monopoly on narrow minded intolerance.
You can't believe these "Free thinkers" really want to see a better world for "everyone". Themselves yes, the rest of the world, not so much. What's worse is they want to do it at taxpayer expense, forgetting that "taxpayers" are not a just nameless, faceless corporations or rich people who inherited their wealth. Taxpayers are people like you and me who work hard for their money.
Doc, I don't like the religious right any more than you do, but don't let your hatred of the right blind you to the many faults of the left. Just look at the hate that is being spewed on this very board by the "free thinkers" of the left.
Is it not hateful to wish violence on women??? ..Ok so Ann gets a little wacky sometime but thats no reason to fantasize about inflicting violence on her..
I can't stand Pelosi but I have never even minutely wished harm would come her way..I know Doc is your friend but in my opinion he needs mental help before he hurts himself or someone else..Too much hating from someone that proclaims he is a nice guy... Kind of reminds me of Bundys writings..
Whats the first thing to go when someone is losing their mind??? Their perception of time..
Need I say more?
Like the man said, take off those rose colored glasses about the left. The right is as diverse as the left. The Christian fundamentalists are a large minority but still a minority.
“The Conservative Right wing sees things only one way. Their way. There is no room for compromise, no room for discussion, no room for opposition. My Way or the HighWay. And they are Unified in their stance. That is their strength. Their unified position that they, and only they kno0w whats best for us all.”
“The left is still comprised of Free Thinkers and disjointed groups who want to see a better world for everyone, not just the privileged.”
Doc,
It’s interesting that many on the right see the left as uncompromising, etc., etc.
You are being too flatly assertive in your characterization of the right and you are being too generous in your "glowing" characterization of the left.
Conservatives “want to see a better world for everyone” as well. We simply differ on the path to that end. A simplified summary is earned success vs. unearned success. That does not rule of charity. It’s the source and control of the charitable source that creates disagreement. Conservatives are by and large more charitable from a personal level than liberals. It’s simply that most liberals expect the government to be their charitable agents. The government has grown into the biggest charity agent over the last 70 years and especially since LBJ. Just how effective has that be been? Conversely, it can certainly be argued that any private charity source is susceptible to forces of bigotry and prejudice, etc.
There are of course other observable dichotomies.
-- Modified on 9/6/2008 10:29:50 AM
thats usually left to the Arab terrorists in the Middle East to blow up hospitals and healing clinics.
Do better research dncphil, and you will find the conservative right wingers have plenty of violence coming from their side as well.
I started out by recognizing those cases.
They are decades old and were very isolated. I seem to rememberthree of four individuals involved, but I admit that with my age reaching the upper levels, the memory isn't great. However, to go out on a limb, I would be absolutely amazed if there were ten documented cases.
They really were isolated individuals. On top of that, I think the most recent is probably ten years old or older.
The U.S. is fairly evenly divided between right and left. (Look at the popular vote of the last two elections - a few points difference) This means there are millions of people on the right, and they produced a maximum of a dozen individuals bent on violence.
Hey, X% believe Elvis is alive, so you get a few nuts in every group.
12 wackos acting out in the 40 years since Roe v. Wade is not exactly the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre.
Now, compare that to the number of violent protesters on the left, and you probably have a thousand to one ratio. I could not begin to count the number of demonstrations that have turned violent. And many were prevented, like the pre-convention raids last week that prevented additional violence.
No, my good Doctor, the level of violence on one side is clearly disproportionate.
Now, now, be nice. Why is it OK for you to slam Christians but it is a beyond the pale if someone is anti-Semitic?
Why is OK for you to be intolerant of Christians but they are not allowed to be intolerant of you?
The big point the left always misses is tolerance should go both ways. The left thinks tolerance is only for things they approve of.
You don't see pro-choice lefties blowing up clinics is a weird example. You also don't see anti-abortion zealots blowing up a church. So? What does that prove?
Ya know what Harry? You're absolutely correct.
There is intolerance on both sides. Far too much finger pointing, far too little accepting responsibility.
What we need, is more tolerance, less arrogance, and a focus on the Greater Good.
The trick of course, is finding common ground in defining what that Greater Good really is.
And I'm sorry to point this out to you Harry5390, but for a couple thousand years, intolerance and villification of Jews was part of the Church liturgy. Anti-Semitism was encouraged and routinely practiced.
Despite the advances made in breaching the barriers between the two, there is still a great deal of "tension". Much of it today, inspired by the self-serving agenda of the Evangelical belief system which is the only reason they support Israel.
Strange bedfellows indeed.
Back to the subject matter. You were right to call me on the double standard, Harry. I stand corrected.
Nonetheless, anti-abortion zealots dont blow up churches, they blow up abortion clinics.
Pro-choice lefties don't blow up either one.
Have a good weekend.
Harry5390
The left thinks tolerance is only for things they approve of."
Exactly
I believe it was Winston Churchill who once said, "If you're young and a conservative, you have no heart; if you're old and a liberal, you have no brain."
Liberals, generally speaking, "think" with their hearts--their emotions--which results in a lot of anger when their causes are thwarted--much like a child-like temper tantrum.
Conservatives, on the other hand, "think" with their brains--their logic--which results in bewilderment when illogical (and often violent) behavior occurs--much like a parent trying to understand a rebellious teenager.
Society needs both to keep it balanced--like yen and yang.
Is it just me, but when I look at the WTO, G8, Greenpeace demonstrations, plus the anarchists in St. Paul, the majority of participants are young and white. Amazing how fast they can mobilize, and the majority are from out-of-state. Wonder what excuses they use to skip college classes, work, and where in the fuck do they get the money for these trips.
DoctorGonzo mentions the "Greater Good". That is very laudable, but the liberal method to achieve Greater Good is via the expansion of government, which we all know are generally incompetent. Most conservatives and independents believe in the individual, while liberals believe in the collective. Conservatives and independents tend to be extremely generous, and prefer to achieve this so-called Greater Good via their own methods vs some government mandated approach.