... and at the end of the day, after the research has been done, and my final assessments and conclusions reached, I find that there's really been no progress whatsoever in dealing with the important and critical issues confronting us as individuals, as a people, and a nation. I speak only for myself here.

Everyone is too busy pointing out that
Obama is BLACK!
Biden is WHITE!
McCain is OLD!
Palin is YOUNG!

to bother spending any time on the issues.

Yes, these are the major concerns in this years election. Let's spend the next couple months bleating about the other guy(gal?), extolling the virtues of OUR guys and Villifying THEIR guys, and at the end of the process, we will all wind up in exactly the same position we were before.

-- non-sequitor begins

Funny how in Russia, they don't even hide the fact they have reverted to an Oligarchy. Can anyone look at the facts on the ground and tell me the US hasn't DEVOLVED into a similar dynamic? Substitute "Corporations" for Oligarchs.

-- non-sequitor ends

I had been re-energized at the DEM selection of Biden, astounded at the choice of Palin by the GOP, and frankly, thoroughly disgusted at the lack of substantive dialog about the issues since Palins selection. Its been all about her bastard grandchild to come.
FAMILY VALUES!!! What a crock of red herring shit.

I have no further inclination to participate in this political process. Ergo, since I can not in good conscience support any candidate in this election, I shall be voting for None of the Above in a write-in.

I'm proud to be an American, but I'm ashamed of what America is becoming. The world is watching this election campaign play out, and they're all eating popcorn and Raisinets while doing it.

You have to be voting for Barack with that apologitic tone about the good ole USA
Fred Thompson nailed Obama last night with that line  apologizing for America

"special interests" (which would include corporations) for corporations...

When we cannot get a handle around a sustainable energy policy due to corporations trying to squeeze every cent of profit they think the market will bear and special interests insisting on alternative energy usage - but then the very same groups saying - well, you cannot put that energy source anywhere near me.... well, you've a problem.

as to our role on the international stage... aside from our 'promise' to get Bin Laden... would it be so bad if we were to tell the world to take a hike???  and just quit trying to police everything?  I know I would sleep a bit easier if we were to focus on our own problems:
Decaying infrastructure
Education to a world competitive level.
Health & Insurance reform
Litigation reform
An energy policy that takes into account the envirnment, but ALSO our economic independance.
National security - and that MEANS enforcing our sovereign borders....

Whew.... that alone will keep us busy for the next century....

and NONE of the candidates or political parties has offered anything that I can tell makes sense on these very crucial issues of our day....

yea, like I care that Obama is black, or Palin is female...   that does not matter..... what matters is what's the plan.

DoctorGonzo,
"Can anyone look at the facts on the ground and tell me the US hasn't DEVOLVED into a similar dynamic? Substitute "Corporations" for Oligarchs."

Dear Doc,
 I read your repetitive posts on your anti corporation views.. Yet I have never seen what your ideas are, on a better way to supply this country with what consumers need and desire..

"a better way to supply this country with what consumers need and desire.."

That's a major part of the problem. There is a big difference between what one needs and what one desires. And, the balance, in this country, is heavily weighted to what one desires, with the corporations spending heavily to influence our beliefs regarding that, and conveniently blurring the boundaries between the two. When it comes to balancing my family budget, and the budget of my business, I've had to learn the difference between the two, and not allow others to talk me into purchasing something I truly do not need, despite the avalanche of advertising directed at me.

Timbow, you really must not pay any attention, or not even bother to read what I write.
I have not once EVER been in favor of Barak Obama. Matter of fact, I am QUITE opposed to his candidacy.

Furthermore, if you read what I wrote, I am NOT apologizing for America. Again, quite the opposite, I am CASTIGATING that aspect of America I believe has lost focus, which seems to be most of the country.

To the ears of the GOP and conservative base, Fred Thompsons speech was the best role that actor has ever played. But he's no Ronald Reagan.
And he didn't convert anyone to the GOP cause that wasn't already drooling ALL over themselves at Palin's ascendancy.

You just don't get it, do you? You figure we all have only two choices, Dem or Rep.

Reminds me of my mother, who when I tried to explain to her that I didn't believe in the God I was taught about, insisted that "if you don't believe in the Torah, then you MUST believe in JeeeZuz!". She couldn't conceive of any sort of philosophy or belief system that didn't include a Godhead.

Apparently, you don't seem to believe we can have any choice besides Democrat or Republican.

With the choices presented, the People Lose. Ergo, I choose None of the Above.

I think she's going to knock it out of the park tonight.  

Joe Lieberman was no Zell Miller but he still gave a good speech and he's voting for McCain/Palin.

the driveby media is so pissed that it's awesome.  If Sarah Palin gives a good speech, abomination Obama is in real trouble.

"Dear Doc,
I read your repetitive posts on your anti corporation views.. Yet I have never seen what your ideas are, on a better way to supply this country with what consumers need and desire.."

Sure you have. Many times. I've written entire volumes in this forum, and elsewhere.

The problem is, my concepts don't jive with yours, so you dismiss them out of hand without contemplation. And you've stated many times you don't like me. In general, you have shown yourself time and time again to have no interest in dialog unless it supports and reinforces your own point of view. You're not interested in what I have to say, you dismiss everything I write, whether an off the cuff knee jerk comment, or a lengthy manifesto representing hours of thought, as the product of an LSD trip I took in 1966.

You are directly insulting to me personally and exude the type of arrogance one usually associates with ignorance (as opposed to the intellectual arrogance you have accused me of, and rightfully so. I'll own up to my character flaws. I can be an arrogant son of a bitch. But I'm also the nicest guy in the world.)

You thrived on making pointedly denigrating comments about me over the 6 months I was on hiatus (I could almost hear you sniggering(sic) in the background when I read them); the vast majority of your thread initializations are filled with invectives that a typical right winger (such as some of the fine folks you read in this forum) would find ignorant, and you display little if any understanding of nuance in any of your contributions.

Can you even consider the concept of engaging me in a real dialog on solutions to the problems without falling back on the tired old partisan garbage spewed out by DC bureaucrats wonks and bloggers? you have never given any indication you are capable of anything more than being a sock puppet for the Dittoheads.

There's a few folks in here with whom I disagree on almost everything... but we still manage to enjoy dialog and conversation about the issues.
Hell, I've even had lengthy email exchanges with good people like BillKile, BizarroSuperdude, GaGambler, RWU, and yes, even XiaomingLover1.
(Hope you gents don't mind... not trying to draw you into this sparring session)

So tell me, quadseasonal, why should I bother to give you the time of day any more than I already do? You want serious dialog? Yeah. Right. Sure you do.

Because for me, it won't matter Geez.

I simply can not in good conscience support the Obama / Biden ticket, despite my expressed support for Joe Biden.
And there is no possible way I could EVER support the GOP ticket.
None of the fringe candidates have any appeal to me.
I'm voting my conscience, and casting my vote for None of the Above.

newbies? Your comment about the similarities between U.S. Corporation and Russian Oligarchies floored me. Do you invest in the stock market? This is the best vehicle to truly understand how U.S. companies operate, how much competition really exists in the marketplace, and the level of government oversight. Read a few 10K, 10Q, and other SEC filings. Get on some quarterly conference calls. Compare the innovation, creativity, introduction of new products/services, and there is absolutely no comparison.

“at the end of the process, we will all wind up in exactly the same position we were before.”

I am assuming the process of which you speak is the election at hand.  At the end of the election I believe there are two distinctly different places we could end up. I’m probably equally fearful of a Democrat monopoly of the Federal government as you are regarding GOP control. No surprises there. After the election, what happens next? Well of course it depends who wins. You say it doesn’t matter. I disagree.

I believe that the past performance of the GOP since 2000 has been terrible in several areas, but mostly in:
1) Lack of discretionary spending control
2) Lack of leadership for a real energy policy
3) Lack of control of entitlement spending and debt and liabilities
4) Not doing enough to reverse the collapse of primary and secondary education quality and the hijacking of advanced educational institutions

But I haven’t given up on the GOP. I’m still willing to keep trying. Notice I didn’t say, willing to let them keep trying. I’m part of it. I need to stay involved.

So how do we get to the end of the election? Well we promote our guy’s judgment and character. And we point out the other guy’s flaws of judgment and character. We talk about these things more than things like experience and education and even knowledge, because it’s judgment and character that matter most for successful solutions. There IS petty personal talk on both sides, but no one will ever convince me that after watching the viciousness that Palin has been assaulted this week that the pettiness is equal or at the same levels of power.

So, in order to have a chance for our ideas to go forward, one first has to win the election.

Sounds like we'll have plenty to talk about in a few weeks.

In the meantime, the cynicism inherent in my comment is due to my belief that all politicians are beholden to their special interests, who are controlling the ebb and flow of politics from the smoky back rooms as they always have.

I have, sadly, seen and personally experienced far too much in the way of the corruption festering in government, from local all the way to Federal levels.

It's going to take nothing less than a truly bipartisan, hands across the aisles effort to repair the damage done to this country and to turn it around.
I do not believe the special interests, be they Big Oil, Family Values, Big Farm or Big Pharma, are going to let whoever is (s)elected handle their own reins.

Ergo, in my pov, "we will all wind up in exactly the same position we were before".

very little is going to change, the only hope is for someone rich enough to fund his own campaign, ala a Ross Perot minus the wacko factor.

I am in favor of giving term limits a go. It will require a constitutional amendment (the 1994 Republicans tried it but it was knocked down by the SCOTUS) and one risk is that the career bureaucrats will "take over".

A close look at California's political quagmire will show you the downside of term limits. It's still a revolving door. Except now absolutely nothing gets done because the newbies are spending their first term learning how to game the system, and their second term trying to game their opposition while grooming themselves for their next election. Sacramento, for all the charisma and genuine bypartisan efforts of Gov. Schwartzeneggar, is a gridlock of opposing special interests, which leads to California's flaccid representation in DC. With the notable exception of Henry Waxman.

Special interests win out every time.

Remember some years ago, they floated the idea of Lee Iacocca for President after he turned around Chrysler so dramatically? Well, maybe thats not such a bad idea in essence.
I dunno, maybe the solution is to find someone with so much money they can't be bought out by the special interests... the conundrum of course, being that someone with that much money IS a special interest. Too bad Michael Bloomberg chose not to make a run as an indy 3rd party.

My comparison between the U.S. Corporation and Russian Oligarchies was not in the nature of their existence, but in their corrupt relationship to their respective government bodies. Corporate special interests get high preference in Washington DC. The interests of the Oligarchs are similarly treated in Russia.
It's the same old story throughout history, just with more zero's to the left of the decimal point.

As far as my Cliff notes version... ok. Hit me up another time, in another thread.

And fwiw, I've had plenty of interaction with the stock market. Especially the SEC, the S&L industry, junk bonds, commodities, Hong Kong brokers and Wall Street wizards. But while I did, I no longer invest in the stock market. Can't do that honestly and still live below the radar.

-- Modified on 9/3/2008 10:46:22 PM