Repubs voted 2-1 against a bill that both the President and the Presidential candidate were pushing. McCain should have stayed on the campaign trail.

No other vote at least till Thursday, apparently. It's going to be a long three days, and people are going to be in a really bad mood by then.

This is ugly but amazing.

One of McCain's big points is that he is a person willing to reach across the aisle and TRY to work with the other side.  

In this case, he did go against many in his party.

No one can be successful all of the time, so the fact that he failed is strikingly irrelevant.

He tried to work with the other side, breaking with his party, as he has several times in the past.  (Don't ask. I am setting you up.)

As has been asked 1,000 times, when has Obama broken with his party to work with the other side.

Obama is pure party line.  If he ever wants to get anything done as president, he has to reach a consensus.  His whole "bring people together" is a joke, unless he is willing to compromise and work with the other side against his own party, AT LEAST SOME TIMES.

And he has done this............. When?

Gosh, could that be why BHO WASN'T 'pushing' for it?

Why over 40% of the Dems voted against it?

Why virtually ALL Dems in close elections voted against it.

Why The Speaker of the House partisanly demonized her opposition, minutes before she (supposedly) wanted them to vote in favor?

BTW, if passing this bill would have dramatically helped McCain, then why would Republicans NOT do it? What’s their motive? What’s the motive for the Dem’s allowing it to fail? I know the answers and so do you, but you will never admit them. Probably not even to yourself.

Maybe most importantly, (as you pointed out) which candidate laid his reputation on the line this week?

And which one effectively voted “PRESENT”?

this is gonna hurt people... people who work and save - this is gonna wipe out some peoples retirement - their kids college fund... and put them out of a job.

You zen.... seem almost gleeful...  Serious people - both Ds and Rs libs and conservatives who care about the country certainly do not share you glee.  but then again, you'll just grab the valium jar and curl under a blanket - and wait it out... cause your medicare will still cover the drug.

It is precisely this prevailing attitude that disturbs me....  that so many feel good cause they think somehow this harms McCain... and while it might... it hurts the average Joe and Sally a lot more.  Grow a spine and have some empathy.

I'm one of the people who will likely be most effected by this. If I lose my job and my insurance, I firmly believe there's a fair chance that I WILL DIE. I have enough physical problems treated through medications that it might happen. At least my level of comfort will drop terribly.

See, I'm hardly gleeful. But if the country is going to suffer a depression now, it is a better thing to me that the right things might begin to happen.

I also keep my eyes open about subtle things. Seeing who's up and who's down politically is a fascinating game, while waiting to see if the axe falls.  

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 7:12:00 PM

Every time you work against your "side," that is, "reach across the aisle" your esteem with you cohorts shrinks. Do it too often, and your own side doesn't listen to you anymore, and probably has had it with you. You have to choose the times you reach across the aisle carefully, and do it for only important things, because it's possible to overuse it and end up with no friends from your side, while gaining really not too many on the other side. Especially when you use it to build a reputation as a "maverick." I bet Repubs secretly sneer at that.

So, now when McCain really, really needs to "break" with his own party and reach across the aisle, his own side has totally had it with him.

Obama is informed about this problem.

In case you missed it, Repubs are really on their own this year in keeping their seats. Their own party heads have admitted this, and have tacitly gave them permission to do anything to keep their seats. So, yes, they'd screw McCain to keep their asses in their Congressional seats.

Going against your party is not necessarily a sign of an independent thinker. You've got to observe things closely to detect that.  

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 7:24:56 PM

I will take your last paragraph one step further...I am disturbed that supporters on any given side get excited when an incident casts a shadow on the opposition.  This is about doing what we think is best for the country, not only in this immediate crisis but as an overall philosophy.  When you get to the point that you can’t objectively critique your own action/platform...trouble is ahead.  Blind allegiance is NOT a good thing.

Does it hurt McCain- of couse it does, especially because he keeps stumbling into one political blunder after another.  BUT I am not going to revel that my candidate is gaining in the polls.  I know too many that are being harmed by this and millions more with whom I am not acquainted.

I look at politics as a very serious responsibility- to do what is best for our country, within reason.

Too bad many politicians don't share that view.

M

From where I sit, McCain shares it.

McCain does not.  I am inclined to think you have the blind allegiance I referenced in my post above.  I do not have the time to go back and look at your numerous posts (multiple aliases?) but I am curious what members of your party you feel are doing poorly?

I am an independent, so I don't tow a party line.  I can see the flaws in both parties...I think our system would work better if each party could honestly correct its own behavior and weed out the bad apples.

M

In many areas, McCain is doing poorly. Bush has been doing poorly at not spending money, not to mention almost all the Republicans have been spending WAY too much money.

I agree completely about the bad apples. The Republicans do a far better job at self policing.

So let me get this straight. You admit that you really don't know much if anything about me yet claim to know enough to say that I probably suffer from 'blind allegiance'. Got it.

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 8:24:39 PM

Had to delete---just to tongue in cheek---

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 9:30:58 PM

Then hang all of the middlemen from it. Then take all of the speculators and hang them from it. Charge congress with treason and have a trial, then hang the those convicted from the gallows. Those actions should clear up all this economic bullshit.

Let me make it clear. I'm not at all certain the bill should have been passed. I haven't read the 109 page draft of the bill, though I downloaded it. Apparently Congress must do something, though. I'm not sure this was it.

So, my comment was not about whether the bill should have passed. It was a comment just on the politics of it.  

It isn't clear to me what Obama was doing. If he voted "present" it might just be because he didn't know if it should have been passed. I have heard that he did do something early in the process. I've been too rushed to confirm what it was.

Pelosi did exactly the wrong thing to pass this bill. It was very shameful. Below on GaGambler's thread, I commented on it, and how I really thought this crisis has shown that there isn't a leader in Congress right now.  

For McCain's reputation, he's supposed to be a "maverick." He was playing that up, not "laying it on the line." Though it put egg on his face that the Maverick's inability to garner enough support. If this was supposed to demonstrate his leadership, it failed. Just so you know, the problem with a "maverick" is that he isn't popular. He's not somebody who works with people "across the aisle." He's a loner, basically disliked by both sides. If we follow that definition, yeah, McCain is exactly what we need-- right about that.  

Hanging Order
11-8-18

Send to Penza To Comrades Kuraev, Bosh, Minkin and other Penza communists

Comrades! The revolt by the five kulak volost's must be suppressed without mercy. The interest of the entire revolution demands this, because we have now before us our final decisive battle "with the kulaks." We need to set an example.

You need to hang (hang without fail, so that the public sees) at least 100 notorious kulaks, the rich, and the bloodsuckers.
Publish their names.
Take away all of their grain.
Execute the hostages - in accordance with yesterday's telegram.
This needs to be accomplished in such a way, that people for hundreds of miles around will see, tremble, know and scream out: let's choke and strangle those blood-sucking kulaks.

Telegraph us acknowledging receipt and execution of this.

Yours, Lenin

P.S. Use your toughest people for this.

______________________

TRANSLATOR'S COMMENTS: Lenin uses the derogative term kulach'e in reference to the class of prosperous peasants. A volost' was a territorial/administrative unit consisting of a few villages and surrounding land.

[not numbered]


http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/soviet.exhibit/ad2kulak.html