I do not believe in partisan politics.  I believe in listening to the issues and making and informed conclusion.  In fact, I even believe that the loser in the Presidential election should be the Vice President.

As a result, the current level of partisanship has really been troubling me.  In particular, I have noticed that at Republican gatherings, they have begun to chant USA, USA, USA.  Is this to imply that other Americans are not proponents of the success of the USA?  Is it to imply that those who believe differently are not proponents of the success of the USA?  I just don't understand it.  I've never heard these chants before this year.

It is not possible to say what is in the hearts of any one person.  However, historically, certain trends have been clear, and you can make of them what you will.

The flag has been associated with the right, simply because the left chose not to display it. Some colleges have taken down the flag, saying it is offensive.  Guess where all of those schools fit on the horizion.  

If you see someone with a flag lapel, you can bet on their policits.

Long story, but I re-sell stamps that people send me.  I have a lot of friends who are on the left.  They will take flowers, commemoratives, sports, holiday, etc.  But many have expressly said that they don't want the flag.

The city of Oakland made fire fighters take down flags they had put on the fire trucks after 9-11.  They said it would offend people.

I remember in during Vietnam, the right's motto was "My country, right or wrong."  The left (of which I as a member then) made fun of that, saying that it was a fascist mentality to just say you were sticking by the US when it was so screwed up.

Years ago, someone suggested that "the Star Spangled Banner" be played at the start of events at the Hollywood Bowl.  There was a big controversy.  Guess who sided on the pro and con.

Bingo - you got it.

I could go on for days, but the fact remains that if the left wants to re-claim patriotism, they are welcome to join the club.  But you can't demand schools and other institutions remove the flag, not play the Star Spangled Banner, and then say how much you love expressions of patriotism.



-- Modified on 9/8/2008 9:55:12 AM

Agreed ... I don't care which party leads, as long as they do right by us ... remember "we the people"?

I thought Reagan was a good leader, Bush Senior  did a decent job, & even though I wasn't that enthused by Clinton initially, I found him to be a capable leader. (none of them were perfect, but at least they didn't f**k up the country)

Since then we've become a polarized nation ...
idealogy trumps reason  ...






-- Modified on 9/8/2008 10:52:55 AM

I guess I don't understand what loving the flag has to do with loving the USA.  Does anyone really think that half the country doesn't love the USA?

Mister Red Baron
USA, USA, USA  USA, USA, USA USA, USA, USA
I've never heard these chants before this year.


 Of course you haven't ..

What's your point dude?

Just to illulstrate what others have already pointed out, at Invesco Field following Obama's grand coronation atop his styrofoam pillars, 12,000 flags were gathered up, placed in trash bags and set beside dumpsters to be thrown away. McCain supporters found them - don't ask me how - rescued them, and handed them out at a rally.

Respecting the flag goes above and beyond simply rising from your seat at a sporting event when the Star Spangled Banner is played. It is respecting the flag and honoring it in all of its forms, even those intended to be waved enthusiastically by your adoring followers.

Why are crowds shouting "USA" at McCain rallies? McCain's theme is "country first", and that resonates with his supporters. It is the theme I've personally lived by for years, long before McCain branded it as his slogan. On another thread someone asked me how I could be vote for party that treats gays so shabbily, given that I am bisexual. The answer is easy - I put my country first and I trust Republicans more than I trust Democrats to keep this country that I love strong and safe.

Thirty years ago, the Republicans got it right as well - This is my country, right or wrong. I can admit that we as a nation have made mistakes. We've made some huge mistakes. We've also done more good for other countries than can be listed here. I love my country when we are right, and even when we are wrong. That sentiment from thirty years ago is even more appropriate today. I can admit that Republicans have gotten off track, and strayed from the principles that make the party great. But I will still put "country first" because I know the GOP can, and WILL get itself together and get back to the principles and discipline that I believe in.

Mister Red Baron, 9/8/2008 10:33:25 AM
What's your point dude?
 My point is that you and all of your friends would never think of chanting USA USA USA !! You are the one that originally said You have not heard of these USA USA USA chants before..
In your defense there would be no reason the Red Baron would utter more than Sieg heil as a salute..
 Case dismissed.

Ummm...I don't believe you know me or my friends.  Hell ya I am country first, I just don't understand how that is an issue of partisanship.  Are you really saying that you believe Democrats don't like the country in which they live?  Really??

My impression of the RNC chanting was the typical pandering of patriotism vs. anti-patriotism.  For reasons not logical to me, Republicans how have a tendency to label everyone and everything that disagrees with them as un-American.  Sadly, because most of the country votes on impulse- using perceived experience, age, appearance and now…culture as a basis to judge a candidate’s ability to govern our country- this strategy is very successful.

USA- translation- If you’re not with us, you’re against us

USA-translation- If you disagree you’re un-American

USA- translation- This is a war of “our” America vs. “their” America

USA- translation- We don’t know how our candidates plan to “reform” our government but by-god we are voting because they look like us

USA- translation- If you question ANYTHING we say, you’ll be attacked by the pit-bull

USA- translation- If you don’t vote Republican you don’t support Vets

USA- translation- If you don’t vote Republican you don’t honor Vietnam Vets

USA- translation- If you don’t vote Republican you’re too left

USA-translation- We’re scared of change, it’s easier to go with a known problem than something new

USA- translation- if I keep saying “straight talk” you might actually think I know what the hell I am talking about

USA- translation- if I say case dismissed enough, it gives me creditability

USA- translation- if I chant enough you might totally forget what the issues actually are

USA-translation- If you disagree, you’re not a “good” Anglo-Saxon Christian…because that is the only kind of “good” people there are

It is really tragic to me; it’s more about the pep-rally then about having a winning team.

XO
Melanie


-- Modified on 9/8/2008 11:36:40 AM

-- Modified on 9/8/2008 11:43:45 AM

Does it disturb you? If so, why? Why would you infer from the chanting that it demeans other Americans? Should they not chant because you've never heard it before? Just what is your point? Why not say it? Why be coy? Why ask why? Why not just say what you think? No balls?

Here is what I think: Your suggestion that the loser become VP is childish and silly.

Hmmm... let's see

Does it disturb you?  NO, IT CONFUSES ME.

Why would you infer from the chanting that it demeans other Americans?  I DID NOT INFER THAT.  I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT I DID.

Should they not chant because you've never heard it before?  NO, I SAID THAT I HADN'T HEARD IT TO INDICATE THAT I WAS INEXPERIENCED WITH IT TO JUSTIFY MY CONFUSION.

Just what is your point?  I DID NOT INTEND TO MAKE A POINT, I ASKED A QUESTION (0R PERHAPS SEVERAL).

Why not say it? SEE ABOVE.

Why be coy? SEE ABOVE.

Why ask why?  BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW THE ANSWER AND AM NOT SO PRESUMPTUOUS AS TO ASSUME.

Why not just say what you think?  I ALREADY KNOW WHAT I THINK, I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT OTHERS THINK.

No balls?  I HAVE TWO CONTAINED WITHIN MY BODY THAT I PLAY WITH FROM TIME TO TIME AND SEVERAL OTHERS STREWN ABOUT MY HOUSE WITH WHICH I PLAY NOT NEARLY SO OFTEN.

Why do you think my suggestion is childish and silly?  Is it so ludicrous to think that Democrats and Republicans, each of whom represent the entire country should work together?

alternative forms of government. There is in the US an existing system of gov't. They may do it differently in the Fatherland, but I wouldn't be so quick to admire the Aryans if I were you. Seems to be they've had a few problems of their own over the last hundred years or so.

Like getting their ass kicked twice! USA USA USA USA  (That's a joke, son.)

Funny joke, sorta.  Do you have no serious answer to my questions?

Simple.  

Think of the opposite, which applies.  You hate the symbol of X.  Do you hate the colors of the X flag - say green, purple, and pink?

Or do you hate what the symbol of X stands for?

You find the symbol of X offensive, and say it should not be shown in public because people might be offended by such a symbol.  Do you hate the checker pattern to the symbol? Or what the symbol stands for?

If someone dislikes the symbol of something, it rarely means that they dislike the artistic display that went into the object.   They are reacting to what it stands for.  

I have no inherent objections to the swastika.  I would not want it on my street because I hate what it stands for.

When people correctly object to the confederate flag, it is a repudiation of what the confedracy stood for.  

It's a whole subliminal conspiracy to show those dirty Democrat pinko commies that the Republicans are the only ones who love the USA.

How does the kool aid taste.

On many/most/maybe all of the occasions when they were shouting "U-S-A," it was to make sure that the protesters who got into the Excel Center could not be heard by the television mics when they started yapping in the middle of McCain's speech.  

Does that explain why they chose "U-S-A" over other chants?  No, but one can guess they used it because it is forceful and can be repeated back to back without a pause in between-thus minimizing what TV viewers could hear from the protesters.

P.S. Just because Republicans demonstrate their pride in their country by chanting "U-S-A" in some instances does not mean they are implying that others do not like the USA.  Saying that this chanting is some sort of jab at democrats is absurd.

-- Modified on 9/8/2008 2:28:46 PM

Take for example your swastika example.  It was used long before the rise of the Nazis.  Sure, it is now largely used by those with ideologies similar to Hitler, but you can't ignore the broader uses (ironically, I think in Asia it was a symbol of peace).

The confederate flag is even broader in what it can represent, so its display is more defensible than the display of the swastika.

I didn't realize that my question would not be worthy of you.  Perhaps I should only ask you questions the answers to which serve your purposes.

your post was helpful.  I disagree with one of your assertions.  In several town meetings subsequent to the convention, I heard the chants uttered.  I doubt there were protesters at all of those.

You are certainly correct that saying the chant must be a jab a Democrats is absurd.  However, it did seem to me that the chants were suggesting that John McCain exclusively represents USA.

Well then, you need to ask yourself why you feel that way. Seriously. Unless your whole post was bullshit, which is what I suspect.

You lost me when you denied implying what you obviously were implying. Then you subsequently admitted you implied it.

We should all quit showing any affection for our country. No more flag waving. No more pubic displays of the flag or the colors. No more parades.

It makes some people feel bad. Why? It doesn't matter. We don't want them to feel bad.

That should make things better. That should make this a better place to live. Right?