You know, watching the media, government, churches, etc, talk about Israel you would think they were a goddamn state.

Every time it comes up the polititians jump at the opportunity to outdo themselves in praise of this foreign nation.

Unless I missed it we have 50 states in this country and none of them are named "Israel".

What frustrates me is that my fellow citizens don't even ask any questions with regard to this. Why does the media seem to put constant emphasis on what Israel thinks or what candidates for office think about Israel? Just what does Israel do for us to justify America's support especially when you admit the truth that support of Israel has been the root cause of Arab/Muslim terrorism? What kind of ally is one that constantly spies on you and sells the information to China and other nations??  You go through all this bullshit at the airport,you have the patriot act, because enemies have been made because our polititians are slaves to AIPAC and other pro-Israel groups.

The entire world, except for the majority of Americans, know this full well.

What no one wants to admit is that there is also a significant majority of Americans who could care less about Israel at the end of the day. They really don't give a damn and the media and government are oblivious to this fact as they continue to shove down the throats of Americans this supposed important need to support this nation.

These polititians need to be taken by the collar and sternly told to get their priorities straight or there will be serious consequenses. Israel is not a US state and they shouldn't be treated as such, with $5 billion annually donated to them by the rats in Washington.

USA is a Christian/Zionist country although we have other religions here.

its the plain and simple truth

And always has been.

Your question requires revelation. The US was founded by US landowers that felt overtaxed. Everyone knows that. It was also founded as a safe haven from political and religious persecution. Founded by orginizations that had to be kept secret at the the time. But they were never liars.

Your answer stares you in the face every day. Ask George Washington. He knows. Even though most of it went on behind his back.

I recognize that but this point is only valid to a certain degree. Only a minority of Christian are those who follow the path of destruction that is lead by the likes of Jerry Falwell and other pro-Israel Christian evangelists.

If they did then the media, who is owned lock stock and barrel by Zionists, and government wouldn't need to lie and promote this ridiculous fantasy that we are fighting in Iraq, and soon in Iran, to fight against terror and for the freedom of the citizens in those countries.

If most American citizens valued the welfare of Israel over the blood of American soldiers and the bankrupting of our country then none of this subterfuge by the Zionist media and there servants in Washington would be necessary.

American citizens, religious or non-religious(with the exception of the morons who believe in the hocus pocus of revelations etc), just don't value Israel as much as the media wants them to.

Those in the Zionist camp who always wail "never again", ha, they obviously have no idea what will transpire if the American people can ever grasp the treason,distortion and lies that have been the foundation of the US and Israel relationship...This country will SMOKE!!!!!

Just a coincedence that this certain "persecuted religious group" came to America in numbers only after the hard work of building the nation had taken place.

My two posts above might be a misrepresentation of my knowledge of what's going on in the West today, as I am fully aware of what is hidden in plain sight on the back of the dollar bill.

George and his comrades didn't speak to highly of these "persecuted" poor chaps either. I believe old Benjamin Franklin, considered a liberal in his time, said that their grandchildren would curse them in their graves if they didn't exclude these poor dears from the body of their new nation.

Hey tallshit26 surprised we did not see you picked up yesterday in Tenn.

...in my opinion, that's especially because of the Judaeo-Christian ideologies that are at the roots of a majority of Americans' faith.  For the Jews (at least the ones I grew up around), they believe Israel is the promised land, theirs by birthright.  My mother, for instance, really and truly believes that Israel can do no wrong, an opinion which I believe is erroneous.  I am not positive but I have read from a few sources that the Israelis have forcibly put Palestinians from all walks of life in internment camps -- you cannot tell me that that is justifiable.  For the Christians (at least those I grew up around), Israel is woven into the fabric of endtimes prophecy.  It is said that the Antichrist will bring peace to Israel.  Thus, this is an important issue to many.

Honestly, the issues of Israel is one of my topics of least expertise.  The history is so long and convoluted, and everyone seems to have a different version of the story. :/ My little politico self is ashamed to admit that - but it's true!

not relevant - Israel is only one of many...

Examples?  

Sarah Palins wardrobe...
Barak Obama's middle name.

What should be discussed?
Economy and how to fix the mess...  
The lack of adequate educational policy - from K-BS Degree
Role of the US in foreign disputes (if any)
Use of special ops to end the activity of Bin Ladin.
Decaying infrastructure.
Export of JOBS...
dishonest business practices that were supposed to be overseen by both the whitehouse and congress - all who took money from the very people they were to be watching... this disgusts me most... cause NO ONE IS HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE - not the media - and certainly not each other....

Tort reform.
insurance reform...

reform of just about everything except how I shit and even that may be up for grabs....

The energy policies of both parties suck....  they both fail to take into account several issues which need to be brought to the forefront... example???   the petroleum industry - sure - it gives us gasoline and heating oil as well as JP-4 BUT it also provides raw materials for most of the space age plastics we are addicted to, starting materials for the manufacture of drugs... and other vital commodities....

but where is the media - off with that bitch Katie Couric and her friggin note book....

I swear - if you see me coming in my car, and you hear someone say and now here is "katie" and her frickin notebook - get out of the way... as I am likley to run you off the road.  The woman is not very bright and yet she is revered as a GODDESS - she is also not that hot.

The Obama-Biden comprehensive New Energy for America plan will:
Watch the VideoProvide short-term relief to American families facing pain at the pump
Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.
Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined.
Put 1 million Plug-In Hybrid cars -- cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon -- on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America.
Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025.
Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

There might be more we can do but I dont see anything that screams "THIS SUCKS".

IT WON'T WORK....  Gotta have petrol...   and you cannot save yourself from the basic energy need.... drill here drill now, nuclear energy now, wind and geothermal nowl... BUT

Develop REAL alternative energy sources... but this is a political windy wordy feel goody goody with no back up -

Sorry - looked at his plan - and as stated it "sounds good" but the details are woefully short - and that is where it will fail.

I posted this earlier but you may have missed it.

"A Capatalists Worst Nightmare"

Competition

Create a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will address the infrastructure challenge by creating a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to expand and enhance, not supplant, existing federal transportation investments. This independent entity will be directed to invest in our nation’s most challenging transportation infrastructure needs. The Bank will receive an infusion of federal money, $60 billion over 10 years, to provide financing to transportation infrastructure projects across the nation. These projects will create up to two million new direct and indirect jobs and stimulate approximately $35 billion per year in new economic activity.

Invest In A Clean Energy Economy And Create 5 Million New Green Jobs: Obama and Biden will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial scale renewable energy, invest in low emissions coal plants, and begin transition to a new digital electricity grid. The plan will also invest in America's highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world.

Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs: The Obama-Biden plan will create new federal policies, and expand existing ones, that have been proven to create new American jobs. Obama and Biden will create a federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) that will require 25 percent of American electricity be derived from renewable sources by 2025, which has the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs on its own. Obama and Biden will also extend the Production Tax Credit, a credit used successfully by American farmers and investors to increase renewable energy production and create new local jobs.

Create a National Network of Public-Private Business Incubators: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by creating a national network of public-private business incubators. Business incubators facilitate the critical work of entrepreneurs in creating start-up companies. Obama and Biden will invest $250 million per year to increase the number and size of incubators in disadvantaged communities throughout the country.

Socialism? Im not sure. I guess it could be.

but I do see a whole lot that screams "THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN"

You don't really believe that any of this is going to happen just because some slick politician with a messiah complex promises it, do you?

What in Obama's past gives you any reason to believe in his ability to do any of this? His many years of writing and enacting innovative legislation? Or maybe it's his many years serving as the owner of a successful business? Maybe it's his vast experience as a the chief executive of, well the chief executive of anything for that matter?

I'm sorry, but running a country by edict went out with the last messiahs, and I don't think it was very successful even then.

I think that would be W when he first took the white house. I actually like him better now.

No more presidents under 5'7.

Obama is actually quite the opposite. He dont know shit about ahit and he knows it. So hes finally gonna let people do thier job. He does learn fast though.

I dont know if you read my earlier post about Iraq. There is no way in hell Obamka came up with that shit. As smart as he is, that was years of Military and Policy experience. Experience he doesnt have.

Thats his great strength, He listens.

Contrary to your opinion I believe his background pecludes a messiah complex.

Bush is 5'11 to 6'0 feet tall.  Where did you get the 5'7 height?

Nah, that's just the FBI doing their best impression of the Boy that cried wolf.

The only people more stupid than those two were the media people who with a straight face promoted that as anything more than a couple of foolish and frustrated kids venting their anger in unproductive ways, and of course those nitwits who actually thing that Obama stood any chance of being in danger. It also looks like the ADL might have had a hand in setting them up as well.

Americans should be furious that their tax dollars are being wasted in investigating such fantasy based non-events.

The only way Obama is assasinated is if he starts to buck the trend when it comes to supporting Israel. And isn't it convienient that the Zionist media is planting seeds right now so to blame that Mossaud hit on "white racists". What's their motto, "by deception thou shalt do war." They stole that from their kinsman in the media for sure

Your response is a typical response of those who want to stop debate of the real issues. You need to realize that the world is growing tired of it.

You are one sick son of a bitch.  No reason to have a conversation or debate with someone like you. I know what people like you understand.

The European media is a little more balanced when it comes to the reporting of Israel's transgressions against the Palestinians but the American people only hear about Palestinian retribution for Israeli aggression.

Many Palestinians live in refugee camps that would make the German concentration camps look like paradise.

Next to Jeb. I cant believe hes 5'11 no way. Ill take your word for it. You dont have to prove it to me.

Here is the Iraq post I think you were down in Columbia? when I put it out. Id like to hear what you think.

"Senator Obama on Iraq"

Since the surge began, more than 1,000 American troops have died, and despite the improved security situation, the Iraqi government has not stepped forward to lead the Iraqi people and to reach the genuine political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge. Our troops have heroically helped reduce civilian casualties in Iraq to early 2006 levels. It is also a consequence of the decision of many Sunnis to turn against al Qaeda in Iraq, and a lull in Shia militia activity. But the absence of genuine political accommodation in Iraq is a direct result of President Bush’s failure to hold the Iraqi government accountable.

As Army Chief of Staff General George Casey said in March, “Today’s Army is out of balance. The current demand for our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan exceeds the sustainable supply and limits our ability to provide ready forces for other contingencies.”

Resurgent Al Qaeda in Afghanistan: The decision to invade Iraq diverted resources from the war in Afghanistan, making it harder for us to kill or capture Osama Bin Laden and others involved in the 9/11 attacks. Nearly seven years later, the Taliban has reemerged in southern Afghanistan while Al Qaeda has used the space provided by the Iraq war to regroup, train and plan for another attack on the United States. 2007 was the most violent year in Afghanistan since the invasion in 2001. The scale of our deployments in Iraq continues to set back our ability to finish the fight in Afghanistan, producing unacceptable strategic risks.

A New Strategy Needed: The Iraq war has lasted longer than World War I, World War II,  $2.7 trillion on this war and its aftermath, yet we are less safe around the globe and more divided at home. American troops have found the right tactics to contain the violence in Iraq, but we still have the wrong strategy to press Iraqis to take responsibility at home, and restore America’s security and standing in the world.

A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal
Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began.

Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism.

There is no military solution to Iraq’s political differences, but the Bush Administration’s blank check approach has failed to press Iraq’s leaders to take responsibility for their future or to substantially spend their oil revenues on their own reconstruction.

A phased withdrawal will encourage Iraqis to take the lead in securing their own country and making political compromises, while the responsible pace of redeployment called for by the Obama-Biden plan offers more than enough time for Iraqi leaders to get their own house in order.

Surging Diplomacy
This effort will include all of Iraq’s neighbors—including Iran and Syria, as suggested by the bi-partisan The Iraq Study Group Report. This compact will aim to secure Iraq’s borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq’s sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq’s reconstruction and development.

He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find sanctuary. Obama and Biden will also work with Iraqi authorities and the international community to hold the perpetrators of potential war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide accountable. They will reserve the right to intervene militarily, with our international partners, to suppress potential genocidal violence within Iraq.

The Status-of-Forces-Agreement

should be negotiated in the context of a broader commitment by the U.S. to begin withdrawing its troops and forswearing permanent bases. Obama and Biden also believe that any security accord must be subject to Congressional approval. It is unacceptable that the Iraqi government will present the agreement to the Iraqi parliament for approval—yet the Bush administration will not do the same with the U.S. Congress. The Bush administration must submit the agreement to Congress or allow the next administration to negotiate an agreement that has bipartisan support here at home and makes absolutely clear that the U.S. will not maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

Barack Obama’s Record
Barack Obama opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning. In 2002, as the conventional thinking in Washington lined up for war, Obama had the judgment and courage to speak out against the war. He said the war would lead to “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs and undetermined consequences.” In January 2007, Obama introduced legislation to responsibly end the war in Iraq, with a phased withdrawal of troops engaged in combat operations

NY times July 08

-- Modified on 10/28/2008 5:47:48 PM

Ever been to Israel?  Back up your claims!

Palin's not that hot either unless you force one to choose between her and Hillary Clinton and Dianne Finestein.

I mean do these people who just go crazy about these women even know who Brianna Banks and Amy Reid are????

I mean, if Palin were not a polititian, how much of a rate would she demand by the hour????

By the way I am not pro-Obama or McCain so this should not be seen as a bias argument. Actually I think Palin is a likeable person, much more than the other three, she just isn't hot.

I have tried, foolishly, to do this in the past and you really can't get anywhere. To Israeli, Zionist apologists its always a anti Jewish source, or some other tactic that is used to downplay the evidence produced.

So I am not going to do anything more than give you a few things to research on your own.

Do a web search on "Racheal Corrie". She was a activist from right here in America who was run over by a Israeli tank while trying to stand in a non-violent way against the Israeli abuse of Palestinians.

Do a search on the U.S.S Liberty and find how our gallant little ally attacked us in 1967 killing 32 American serviceman in an attempt to blame the whole thing on Egypt.

It is easy to find quotes from Israeli/Jewish leaders that show their disregard for the lives of Palestinians. Ben Guirion said they were "beasts with two legs."

I have learned through experiance that facts mean nothing to stanch supporters of Zionism and Israel. The only weapon these forces have, a very powerful one indeed, is the accusation of anti-Semitism because they simply have no facts that can dispute the truth of Zionist control, it is a reality after all.

You have the facts, your facts.  Bless your little heart.

I also can fairly assume where your coming from as well. One thing I can't fault you for is tribal loyalty, but I do have a problem with the fact that your kind condemn all other groups for this same loyalty.

I agree nothing will be accomplished by a debate between you and I.

Hey, may the best folk win.

He lived there until he was 35.  He's like 64 now, and I hate talking to him b/c all he does is ask me if my mom is still fat and if I've changed my kid's name yet... so no clue how much help he could be.  I know for a fact that he hates Jews, too, so again.. I guess that's a BAD source.

The Source, I'll defer to your knowledge in this instance.  This is the only link I could find w/any info. on internment camps for Palestinians, and I am not sure of the veracity of their claims or the legitimacy of the site.  http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/mideast/palestine/394.html

Believe me butterflydust, there is no source you could produce for people like Source that would satisfy their demands for reference source material of Israeli and Zionist misdeeds. In their minds these forces have never done a single thing wrong and deserve no criticism for anything.

The article kind of said it all. But it was a bit slanted. IMO The main problem is Isreal is viewed as a foreign occupation. I guess to appease Islamic extremists we should just close Isreal and bring them to the US.

Its already happening. 1 by 1.

This is the other side of the story.

From the Koran:

Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)

"If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)

Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-
"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

"As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

Islamic Intolerance.

Re: Napoleon Complex

Napoleon complex is what they mean and yep Bush ain't short enough qualify .

-- Modified on 10/28/2008 8:21:54 PM

She doesn't dress for sexiness, or even attractiveness, very obviously. The glasses, the hair, and yes, the clothes are all wrong. They are not what I would call dorky but she's not trying to turn on her audience.

What I am pointing out is that the plan - as you've outlined will not work... technical flaws in the plan will prohibit it from working...

I work in tech commercialization - from the invention to a product that most can use - in the field of energy - takes about 10-20 years, or more.  (witness fusion - still 20 years away and counting)....

Renewable energy?   question, why did KENNEDY lead the charge to halt the building of windfarms in Mass?  Why is it almost disincentized to go completely solar - and take oneself "off the grid?"

As far as "the Production Tax Credit, ....used ...by American farmers... to increase renewable energy production and create new local jobs"  that is ill-conceived.  Why? Because as is, production of EtOH is takes more energy to produce that it produces... AND uses corn that could be used for food.... which is in more short supply... in the world as a whole.

As far as infrastructure goes, we need to rethink that whole thing - and not just "repair the roads" = that will not work going into the future....   We need to define what type of infrastructure will best serve the country - rather than just willy-nillly fix roads (although they do need maintenance).

Incubators... I can and will write chapter and book on that - but to be honest about it, these by and large fail... I know.  Been there, done that, done that again, watched others go there and do that.... again and again and again....

Until we change fundamentally the university system, much of our federal research funds will be wasted.  and pumping MORE money into that system... will only insure that MORE money is poured down the drain...

look, his words sound nice... but they are going with already failed approaches.... gotta think globally, and into the future....

one example not addressed by his plan - energy distribution channels.... how to address that...

another problem - we need the byproducts of petroleum processing... where will that come from?

another problem... IF you believe in manmade gloabal warming cause by CO2 emissions, then there is no such thing as clean coal... cause that only produces C + O2 --> CO2 to produce heat.... plain and simple.

but Christians haven't been the most tolerant of people over the years either. I'd love to see a body count and see which one of these two intolerant, murderous religions has racked up the largest body count. My bet is the Christians have killed more "heathen savages" than Muslims have killed "infidels". All in the name of saving their "immortal souls"

Any takers???

I don't claim to have the answer to which religion is the "right" one, but I guarantee you there are billions of people who definitely got it wrong. Personally I think they all got it wrong, but what the fuck do I know?

Talk about the law of unintended consequenses sweatleaf, lmao, believe me America would be even worse of with all of the inhabitants of Israel coming here.

I am not pro-Muslim and I don't think anyone who supports a pro-American policy in the Middle East has as their goal the appeasement of militant Islam in their suggestion that we should stop support of Israel. The relationship is just not beneficial to genuine American interests.

I would urge you to seek out a book entitled "Jewish History, Jewish Religion" by Israel Shahak, a Jew. This is one of many books that have been written that focus on the anti-Gentile passages in the Talmud. When you look at the teachings of these books you begin to realize why the Israelis do such inhuman things to the Palestianians, the megalamaniacs consider them and all other non Jews as cattle, goyim as they term it. The whole religion,when you get down to the niddy gritty, is basically a gameplan on how to swindle the world.

Your right gambler, the religion of tolereance that Christianity....Huh yeah tell that to all those pagans in Europe burnt at the stake for not converting.

I meant what I said. Obama thinks he can part the waters by simply saying he is going to. Fixing this country's problems by edict simply isn't going to happen.