Politics and Religion

Robert Novak BRILLINTLY Glimpses The PAINFULLY OBVIOUS [But Still, I'm Grateful For Small Favors]
XiaomingLover1 67 Reviews 2523 reads
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"When I expressed commiseration to an Israeli diplomat over the ''bad news'' in the Middle East, he expressed hope that ''good news'' -- a ''new paradigm'' is on the way. He added: ''The problem is that we have been too soft.'' In other words, Israel had erred in not moving earlier against Hezbollah's military capability in southern Lebanon and was determined to do so now.

Using military force to achieve the ''new paradigm'' wins either enthusiastic or tacit support across America's ideological spectrum. Apart from hesitant pleas for Israeli restraint from President Bush and his administration's officials, the U.S. political community has been cheering on the punishment of Hezbollah. Sen. Chuck Hagel, second-ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, is a voice in the wilderness suggesting U.S. policy is dangerously isolated by the Israeli alliance."

[Yeah, maybe so, but that won't last if Hagel's presidential aspirations are serious.  Wait for him soon to change his tune].

"Never before have the United States and Israel been so close, and never before has support of Israel been so universal among American politicians. That inhibits the leverage Bush is able to exercise, on behalf of his country, as an honest broker seeking a peaceful solution in the Middle East. He is seen as Israel's uncritical supporter. Members of Congress, normally free with their comments about everything, have been silent about the economic carnage that could result from the current escalation in the Middle East (including a prospective epidemic of suicide bombings in Israel)."

[Bush has no intention, and probably never had any intention, of acting as an "honest broker."  I mean, how could he?  Look at all the Israel-happy NeoConMen bozos he appointed. And worse yet, took their advice! And the thought that anuyone, after 40+ years of supine and craven US support for Israel could see the US as an "honest broker" is, to paraphrase Wm Buckley Jr., an idea so silly only an intellectual could or would take it seriously.  Novak's coments re Congress need no expalnation].

"The U.S.-Israel alliance was transformed after the Six-Day War of 1967, when the United States replaced the Soviet Union and France as Israel's patron. In 1988, a joint memorandum designated Israel as a ''major'' American ally. But it was not until 2001 that the current intimacy between the two governments was reached. Stratfor, the private intelligence service, reported on the day of the 9/11 terrorist attacks: ''The big winner today, intentionally or not, is the state of Israel.'' I wrote then: ''Whatever distance Bush wanted between U.S. and Israeli policy, it was eliminated by terror.'' Engaged in both Afghanistan and Iraq, Bush stepped back from the drudgery of promoting Israeli-Palestinian accommodation."

"Nearly two decades before 9/11, American politicians had learned how dangerous it was to be at odds with Israel. American supporters of Israel focused on two longtime Illinois Republicans -- Rep. Paul Findley in 1982 and Sen. Charles H. Percy in 1984 -- and defeated both for re-election. Since then, few office seekers have dared criticize Israel."

[Don't know much about the Findley case, but the Senator Percy case is an excellent example.  His crime -- he said a few lukewarm words of support for the "comprehensive peace" strategy which was in vogue circa 1975.  And, of course, Percy was Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee in 1981, the year of the AWACS sale to Saudi Arabis.  AIPAC neither forgives nor forgets -- and Congresspersons certainly draw the appropriate lessons].

"That is especially true of anybody harboring presidential ambitions -- including Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden and Republican former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. They are critics by nature but were markedly uncritical of Israel when they appeared together on NBC's ''Meet the Press'' Sunday. ''I think it's a secondary question whether Israel's gone too far,'' said Biden. A few moments later, Gingrich asserted: ''It is explicitly wrong to bring pressure on the victim'' -- that is, on Israel.

Hagel, who is considering a possible 2008 presidential race, deviates from this pattern. ''I'm a supporter and friend of Israel,'' he told me, ''but I'm also for a sane situation in the Middle East. We have to worry about the Muslim states. We are increasingly alone in the world.'' While asserting Iran and Syria bear ''some responsibility,'' he talked about a ''combustible environment'' that could ''engulf the whole world.'' To Hagel, ''this is the most dangerous situation we've been in'' since formation of the state of Israel 58 years ago."

[The example of the acid-tongued and often egregious Robert Dole will serve as an example.  Never publicly outspoken on either side of the issue, in the summer of 1988 or 1989, in the aftermath of an Israeli military operation in Lebanon which resulted in the rvenge killing of US Army Colonel Higgins, he had the nerve to voice this emminently sensible sentiment [not the exact quote] : "a little greater sense of responsibility on the part of Israel would be a welcome change."  Well, the Kansas Senator was treated to an unrelenting verbal beating the likes of which fall only upon those foolish enough to question any word or deed of Israel - as the daily output of this very Board testifies. [So much so, I suspect, that his later bout with erectile dysfunction must have seemed like a summer on the Riveria with Claudia Schiffer by comparison.  But I digress]. Anyway, long story short, by the time 1996 rolls around and Senator Dole is running for Prez, he sounds like he was channelling Ari, Bibi, Sharansky, Kahane and Alan Dershowitz at their most bloodthirsty. And that's saying some! I predict a similar fate for Senator Hagel in the snows of New Hampshire and the pastures and croplands of Iowa].

"Hagel was one of the first public figures last week to propose sending a prestigious former Republican secretary of state -- either James A. Baker III or Colin Powell -- to the Middle East as a presidential envoy. Implicit in that suggestion was the belief that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was not up to mediating the Israeli-Palestinian struggle and that outside assistance was needed."

[What's the point of a Presidential envoy?  Poor Philp Habib had a heart attack in 1981 for his troubles, James Baker is considered a rabid anti-Semite by some, and Powell's stock is more than dimished at this point.  Anyway, it's a logical non-starter, as the US plainly has no crdibility to act as an "honest broker."  And I really don't think that that point is so difficult to grasp that Novak takes an entire column to make it].

"There was no hand of any American visible when I reported from Israel three months ago, and Israelis seemed happy about that. Newly installed Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was intent on Israel unilaterally drawing boundary lines with a desiccated, noncontiguous, economically nonviable Palestinian state. With no negotiations taking place and Washington pressing for none, thoughtful Israelis outside the government assured me of a return to violence, one way or another, sooner or later. It came sooner."

[Yep, it sure did.  And like a bad penny, it will always come back to us.  Thanks AIPAC.  BTW, the only US "hands" Israel digs are the ones shoveling out bushels of $$$ and arsenals of weapons.  After that, the US in on it's own].

I originally saw this column in the NY POST, a Rupert Murdoch property, and which, like all his US media properties, hews to a straight and narrow Israeli line -- or should I say  Israeli hardline?


In the NY Post it ran under the heading "Boxed In By Ties To Israel."  How apprpriate, I thought, as that box looks like it's going to become a coffin for many.






Forget the Plame leak or his bedroom connection to Karl Rove. Novak is a self-hating Jew who once looked into having his foreskin replaced so he could pass himself off as a blue-blooded Gentile.

As opposed to you, a red-blooded bigot.

Just please take a deep breath or two, count to whatever number pleases you, and repeat to yourself "someone CAN hold a contrary opinion AND NOT BE a genocidal anti-Semite complicit in the Holocaust and a shameless apologist for murderously bloodthirsty Arab terrorism and fundamentalist Islamofascism."

Doc, you like to portray yourself, via your opposition to POTUS Bush and all he stands for, as quite the liberal chap -- don't you understand that a basic tenet of liberalism is a willingness to let others hold a contrary opinion?  And NOT to assume that your opponent has a vile and malignant motive?

Again, I think Novak is actually an RC.  But, if he is a self-hating Jew, that's between you and him.  As some Hollywood vulgarian of yesteryear once said "include me out."

Doc, today my mitzvah is to forgive you ALL your various verbal tresspasses against me [how that's for mixed metaphor type stuff?]. As well as I fear tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after...

[Doc, if you ever get to NYC this summer let's do lunch.  I really mean it.  I've gotta meet you in the flesh.  An unkind poster on this Board once described you as a "600 lbs. product of gluttony."  Is that true?  Even if so, not to worry -- I'll still pick up the tab].

I know, I know, it's just for "ratings."  BTW Doc, have you considered that when you carry on in this extreme manner you possibly lessen your credibility on other issues among less-tolerant Board members than myself?

Remember, all is forgiven by kindly Xiao.

PS. I too, had the old foreskin whacked off. I was in no position to do anything about it except scream my day-old head off.  See, we realy do have stuff in common. Also, if Novak-Rove are an alternate lifestyle ex-couple, so what?  Would you complain if Bibi and Sharansky were so inclined?  No, of course not -- in that case it would be their personal affair and of no interest to the wider world.  Kids, can we spell D-O-U-B-L-E  S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D?

No matter, kindly Xiao stills forgives your verbal excesses.  But begins to doubt wheter you are capable of any verbal expression which doesn't  boldly venture in the torrid wastelands of excess.  

See ya' tommorrow!

-- Modified on 7/24/2006 8:55:01 PM

Mr. Neutron1555 reads

This seems to be very objectionable to you.  Why?  Should we be more supportive of (monarch, military, Islamo/Fascist) dictatorships than to a thriving democracy in the Middle East?

endless war?

PFCs instinctively know what Sun Tzu advises: don't volunteer to get yourself in over your head.

Republicans don't know this because they're too used to other people doing the dirty work.  Hence, they are baffled when they find they've picked a fight that somebody else can't finish.

My advice to Republicans is, sign up, or shut up.  Cleaning toilets may be necessary for you to understand what shit is like.

A little harsh on Mr. Neutron?  Ease up, he's a relative newcomer.

Mr. Neutron1951 reads

I asked Xiaoming (not you) about his stance against Israel. I want to understand his logic.

I don't want us to get involved in their war.  I want us to stay out of it so Israel can do what must be done.

But don't you see, that's a hugh part of it -- whatever Israel does, the US is seen, rightly so, as totally complicit.  You know, "my enemy's friend is my enemy."

Even if we "stay out" we're totally involved.

Nice questions, but the wrong ones -- the US should not support policies which are detrimental to itself. Supporting Israel has proven to be detrimental to the US for a very long time.  Skip back a few pages, I've posted a link to the Mearsheimer/Walt essay on the Israel Lobby.  Try to keep an open mind and read it.

I'm happy that Israel is a democratic state for most of it's citizens, and in fact I wouldn't mind living there myself for a few years [but that heat...]. But there are other countries which are democratic whose policies we sometimes disagree with [fer example, France].  So, Israel's democratic [for some] polity is not in and of itself enough to qualify for our support.  But it's not a bad start. You ask the  AIPAC rhetorical question, while I perfer the US national interest question : what's the balance of net gain and loss to the US via it's policy of support of Israel?

Many have argued that supporting Israel is a pure ralpolitik exercise totally in the national interest.  I do not agree.

Tell me, what exactly do you see as the benefits which accrue to the US as a result of this "alliance" with Israel?  Please, no boilerplate rsponses like "they're our most reliable ally in the Middle East"  or "they stand with us in The War On Terror."

Mr. Neutron2021 reads

The boiler plate answers are all very valid answers. They make sense in every way.

On a personal note, it is the right thing to do.  We are not France and we are not Sweeden.  We do not pick our allies and choose sides based on the easiest path.  We are better than that!  

I am a little distressed from your cold, calculating viewpoint.  Your viewpoint seems to be all about geopolitical strategy (one that I strongly disagreee with) and nothing about right and wrong.  You may be a closet "paleocon".  You and Pat Buchanan should do lunch.

I part with Pat, chunky demagogue that he is, on pretty much every other topic.  The hardest thing about being a critic of Israel is the company I'm sometimes lumped in with, but hey, it's that's the price...

We are not France and we are not Sweden.  In some ways, more's the pity!  At least our citizens would have universal health care if we were.  At least they clearly see thier national interests as being apart from and different from the national interest of Israel.

A paleocon?  I doubt it.  I simply care more about the US than I care about Israel.  Hey, call me crazy, but as an American that seems to be a basic starting point.

Israel is more than able to take care of itself, no matter what the day-to-day drama might be.  Ask yourself -- a country whose entire existence has been one of a state of national emergency, which contains a disgruntled, ethnically distinct population at whose expense that state prospers, who finds itself constantly in conflict with it's neighboring countries [OK, not all of Israel's choosing], and whose survival is predicated on the endless and seemingly unquestioned largese of the world's remains superpower [that's us, Mr. Neutron] -- do you really think that state is a good bet for long term survival?  More simply put, is this a situation you wish to entertwine inextricably the welfare and security of the US with?  Seems like a losing bet to me.

Israel may be a sinkinf ship doomed to go down.  I don't propose to see the US go down with her, harsh and cold and unfeeling as that sentiment may be to you.

Supporting Israel is the right thing to do?  I acknowldge that you and many other believe that sincerely, I and many others do not.

Mr. Neutron1187 reads

Don't think so.  Very defeatest.  I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but if you were running things the terrorists would win.  From studying your posts your answer seems to be capitulation.

You are a terrorist's wet dream.  Along with Carmen Elektra in a burka.

It's hard to penetrate a made-up mind that if Israel is doomed so will be the whole region and thus the world, including us, will be deprived of 1/3 of the world's oil reserves. Not to mention that the radioactive cloud above the region won't stay exactly stationary....That's the 'benefit'we'll derive by detaching our own interests from israel's!!

I wrote "...Israel may be doomed." And again, it may not.  I suspect the US will pass into history well before Israel does [in no small part precisely because of the immense damage we do to ourselves via our policies of support for Guess Who].

Mr. Neutron, let me break this hard news to you as easily as I can -- if I was in charge, the US would be in a much better position to combat The Forces Of Terror than we are now, because we WOULD NOT BE fatally compromised by our entangling alliance with Guess Who as we are now.  The US would be seen as acting in it's own interests, not for those of the spoiled child of American foreign policy [that's Israel to you].

Let me break it to you even more plainly --
Israel would be a lot better off. And ain't that your bottom line?  Even though we would have seperated our interests from theirs, the de facto effect of less fettered US responses to The Forces Of Terror would be of  great benefit to Israel.  In economics and political science this is know as a "public good"  -- US actions would result in  outcomes that would benefit Israel, but the US could in NO WAY deprive or prevent the Israelis from enjoying the benefits of those US actions [think clean air -- everyone benefits from it, the just and the unjust alike, tree-huggers and polluters alike.  And there's no way to prevent anyone from enjoying the benefits of clean air.]  See the point I'm making?  Seeing things a little differently perhaps?  Stuff they don't post on the AIPAC website?  Things our superannuated IDF officer doesn't want you to figure out?  Or more likely, has not the wit to figure out for himself.

But the crucial condition is that the US distance itself from Israel.  And here's the part you'll really love -- fewer attacks on Israel, possibly more attacks on the US.

Think about what I've written -- can you and the rest of the Israel-happy folks out there take YES for an answer?  You can have your cake or eat your cake -- but not both.  What would you rather have -- a grudging and ultimately untenable "alliance" with the US, an alliance constantly under question and political attack for it's incredible cost and nonexistent benefits to the US, or an arms-length, cordial relationship with the US that provides you with more positive outcomes than it does now?

If Israel was as important to me [and it ain't and never will be] as it is to you, I think the answer would be very clear.

Wy don't you bring this up at your next AIPAC meeting?  I'm sure the discusion will be interesting and quite spirited.

BTW, no disprespect taken. I'm an adult, i realize that when I hold unpopular opinions, i'm going to be criticized.  [Unlike some others I could name.]  Some times quite unfairly -- but that's a failing of my critics, not moi.

Really, think about this.

you will be surrounded by highly fuckable Frog and Swede babes.

and SHOULD you contract an STD/unplanned/unwanted pregnancy, gov't provided national health insurance is there to cover your malady  -- but at times somewhat slowly, however.

Is this know as "off topic"?

and you think you're better, ie, dumber?  This is the "right" thing to do, ie, park your fucking brain?!?!   You think that religious cheerleaders are somehow sincere or honest, or different from each other?  Sheesh.

Mr. Neutron2604 reads

But you are growing on me in a "Crazy uncle we have to invite to Thanksgiving" kind of way.

exactly WTF do you think foreign policy should be, except for cold & calculating?  

You think we should go off spending ouor money and blood without thinking long & hard about it, and knowing goddamned well EXACTLY what we're doing?

You sound like the kid I wouldn't trust with a buck for a popsicle.

however did you manage to obscure the PAINFULLY OBVIOUS?

What IS the PAINFULLY OBVIOUS?   Or should we even ask?

and you already understand the answer.

Hey, wasn't my analysis cogent enuff for you?

25 words or less :  supporting Israel is a bad policy for the US.  Domestic political constraints make it extremely difficult to chart a new course.

Sorry to be the bearer of unpopular news.

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