Politics and Religion

Not that fact and figures matters to Idealogues and Wingnuts
anonymousfun 6 Reviews 5554 reads
posted

First, the article states it is the result of 2 recessions.  It skips a few facts.

1) Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, which he pulled us out of, in spite of major calamaties for which he is not to blame, Enron, the Tech Bubble Burst, and 9-11.  (The roots of Enron preceded Bush.)  Bush didn't blamed the prior administration for these things.  He tried to deal with it.
He also pulled us out much faster than someone else who inherited a recession.  In the middle of Bush's term, the unemployment rate was so low, we can only dream of it.  I think it was in the 5% range, but memory is bad.

2) At least one of the wars that it mentions is ACCORDING TO OBAMA a "war of necessity.  If that war was necessary, and Obama is not lying, than the cost is a problem, but you can't blame Bush.  Indeed, the vast majority of Dems supported the war of necessity.  Also, a lot of the 1.3 trillion was spent under Obama.

3) the two wars together, according to the article, cost 1.3 trillion in 9 years.  Obama's first stimulus cost 800 billion in one year.  

5)  The prescription drug thing is funny.  Dems create program, after program, after program, and Bush has a program that gives drugs to seniors, and you would think he is killing puppies.  I didn't like it, but it is funny to hear Dems rant against an unpaid for social program.  That is the ultimate chutzpah.

4) Although I had serious questions about it and wasn't sure if it was the best idea, TARP was supported by Obama and many, many Dems.  There has been substantial repayment, according to the current administration.  Finally, TARP was an emergency, unlike the current proposed round of cuts. TARP focused on immediate instittuions that were in danger.  

THe stimulus was supposed to be on "shovel ready," which Obama admits ain't ready.

5) THE BIGGIE - The spending by Obama is a flop.  There have been too many programs to list where the "jobs saved and created" cost an insane amount per job.  Things like the recent weatherization program in CA where it cost over $250,000 to create each construction job, a program repeated in Seatle.  In project after project after project, the cost per job is almost funny.

Also, many jobs "save" are a liability in the future not dealt with today.  If it save a teachers job in Los Angeles, the LAUSD now has to pay even more when that teacher retires in ten years because his base has gone up.  The system is already broke with unfunded liabilities, and thiis allowed it to increase that problem without doing anything to allieviate it.  This was repeated in 1,000 cities and states, where their pension liability kept going up, with them not being able to handle what they already had.


In short, it is easier to justify prior spending, which was at a much slower rate.

Finally, Dems just have to insult.  It isn't that we have an honest disagreement over economics, a reasonable disagreement, unless you can refute everything I say.  It is I am a "wingnut."  That way you don't have to even think about what I say. You don't argue with crazies, you walk  away.

Posted By: anonymousfun
you may get a grain of reality other than Faux numbers!
-- Modified on 9/18/2011 5:21:21 AM

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 5:40:25 AM

to point out that the prescription drug program was an important contributor to the deficit is simply a fact.  And lots of Dems voted for it.  No one has compared it to killing puppies or even said it's not a well-intended program.  Just that it's a big, unfunded, liability.  That's a simple fact.  Nowhere, in the article, at least, is a Dem "ranting"  about it.
As for TARP, all the article points out about it is that it may not add anything at all to the deficit.  So I'm not sure what your point is.
I also agree with your last couple of points, so I hope my two criticisms don't come across as carping.  I'm a Dem but I don't think I "just have to insult."  And, no, you are not a "wingnut."  OK?

I didn't deny that it did not contribute to the deficit.  It is a fact. My point is that every time the Dems complain about what the GOP did to increase the deficit they point to this.  

The "killing puppies" was an attempt at irony.  They use this as a "Look what Bush did."  As if it is something bad that he should not have done.  If it is something he should have done, don't harp about it.  

My point was for any Dems to complain about unfunded social programs is a joke.

Who refuse to accept fact and g
Who refuses to accept facts. Do you have any data from even one reputable and non-partisan source to back any your statements?

From your comments, it is evident that, you are not only drinking the Kool-Aid you are swimming in it. No I did not read all your comments, #1 is sufficient to determine you are delusional. No, I will not wast my valuable time.

Posted By: dncphil
First, the article states it is the result of 2 recessions.  It skips a few facts.

1) Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, which he pulled us out of, in spite of major calamaties for which he is not to blame, Enron, the Tech Bubble Burst, and 9-11.  (The roots of Enron preceded Bush.)  Bush didn't blamed the prior administration for these things.  He tried to deal with it.
He also pulled us out much faster than someone else who inherited a recession.  In the middle of Bush's term, the unemployment rate was so low, we can only dream of it.  I think it was in the 5% range, but memory is bad.

2) At least one of the wars that it mentions is ACCORDING TO OBAMA a "war of necessity.  If that war was necessary, and Obama is not lying, than the cost is a problem, but you can't blame Bush.  Indeed, the vast majority of Dems supported the war of necessity.  Also, a lot of the 1.3 trillion was spent under Obama.

3) the two wars together, according to the article, cost 1.3 trillion in 9 years.  Obama's first stimulus cost 800 billion in one year.  

5)  The prescription drug thing is funny.  Dems create program, after program, after program, and Bush has a program that gives drugs to seniors, and you would think he is killing puppies.  I didn't like it, but it is funny to hear Dems rant against an unpaid for social program.  That is the ultimate chutzpah.

4) Although I had serious questions about it and wasn't sure if it was the best idea, TARP was supported by Obama and many, many Dems.  There has been substantial repayment, according to the current administration.  Finally, TARP was an emergency, unlike the current proposed round of cuts. TARP focused on immediate instittuions that were in danger.  

THe stimulus was supposed to be on "shovel ready," which Obama admits ain't ready.

5) THE BIGGIE - The spending by Obama is a flop.  There have been too many programs to list where the "jobs saved and created" cost an insane amount per job.  Things like the recent weatherization program in CA where it cost over $250,000 to create each construction job, a program repeated in Seatle.  In project after project after project, the cost per job is almost funny.

Also, many jobs "save" are a liability in the future not dealt with today.  If it save a teachers job in Los Angeles, the LAUSD now has to pay even more when that teacher retires in ten years because his base has gone up.  The system is already broke with unfunded liabilities, and thiis allowed it to increase that problem without doing anything to allieviate it.  This was repeated in 1,000 cities and states, where their pension liability kept going up, with them not being able to handle what they already had.


In short, it is easier to justify prior spending, which was at a much slower rate.

Finally, Dems just have to insult.  It isn't that we have an honest disagreement over economics, a reasonable disagreement, unless you can refute everything I say.  It is I am a "wingnut."  That way you don't have to even think about what I say. You don't argue with crazies, you walk  away.
Posted By: anonymousfun
you may get a grain of reality other than Faux numbers!
-- Modified on 9/18/2011 5:21:21 AM

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 5:40:25 AM

I addressed specific points that the article made. The expense of wars, etc.

The "facts" that you think are missing are from the article. The article says that was the amount spent on the wars.  The "fact" of the cost of the stimulus is common knowledge.  

Either you are denying the very thing you post or you have are ignoring reality.

Of course, other than say I don't gave "data" you do not address one specific thing I said.
Do you deny that was the cost of the wars? Do you deny Bush inherited a recession?  Do you need a citation to prove the Tech Bubble Burst?  

You can't point to one thing that you can refute, and then you just say I am drinking Kool-Aid. Who liberal.

Commone Anon.  What one fact are you denying?  

Posted By: anonymousfun
Who refuse to accept fact and g
Who refuses to accept facts. Do you have any data from even one reputable and non-partisan source to back any your statements?

From your comments, it is evident that, you are not only drinking the Kool-Aid you are swimming in it. No I did not read all your comments, #1 is sufficient to determine you are delusional. No, I will not wast my valuable time.
Posted By: dncphil
First, the article states it is the result of 2 recessions.  It skips a few facts.

1) Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, which he pulled us out of, in spite of major calamaties for which he is not to blame, Enron, the Tech Bubble Burst, and 9-11.  (The roots of Enron preceded Bush.)  Bush didn't blamed the prior administration for these things.  He tried to deal with it.
He also pulled us out much faster than someone else who inherited a recession.  In the middle of Bush's term, the unemployment rate was so low, we can only dream of it.  I think it was in the 5% range, but memory is bad.

2) At least one of the wars that it mentions is ACCORDING TO OBAMA a "war of necessity.  If that war was necessary, and Obama is not lying, than the cost is a problem, but you can't blame Bush.  Indeed, the vast majority of Dems supported the war of necessity.  Also, a lot of the 1.3 trillion was spent under Obama.

3) the two wars together, according to the article, cost 1.3 trillion in 9 years.  Obama's first stimulus cost 800 billion in one year.  

5)  The prescription drug thing is funny.  Dems create program, after program, after program, and Bush has a program that gives drugs to seniors, and you would think he is killing puppies.  I didn't like it, but it is funny to hear Dems rant against an unpaid for social program.  That is the ultimate chutzpah.

4) Although I had serious questions about it and wasn't sure if it was the best idea, TARP was supported by Obama and many, many Dems.  There has been substantial repayment, according to the current administration.  Finally, TARP was an emergency, unlike the current proposed round of cuts. TARP focused on immediate instittuions that were in danger.  

THe stimulus was supposed to be on "shovel ready," which Obama admits ain't ready.

5) THE BIGGIE - The spending by Obama is a flop.  There have been too many programs to list where the "jobs saved and created" cost an insane amount per job.  Things like the recent weatherization program in CA where it cost over $250,000 to create each construction job, a program repeated in Seatle.  In project after project after project, the cost per job is almost funny.

Also, many jobs "save" are a liability in the future not dealt with today.  If it save a teachers job in Los Angeles, the LAUSD now has to pay even more when that teacher retires in ten years because his base has gone up.  The system is already broke with unfunded liabilities, and thiis allowed it to increase that problem without doing anything to allieviate it.  This was repeated in 1,000 cities and states, where their pension liability kept going up, with them not being able to handle what they already had.


In short, it is easier to justify prior spending, which was at a much slower rate.

Finally, Dems just have to insult.  It isn't that we have an honest disagreement over economics, a reasonable disagreement, unless you can refute everything I say.  It is I am a "wingnut."  That way you don't have to even think about what I say. You don't argue with crazies, you walk  away.
Posted By: anonymousfun
you may get a grain of reality other than Faux numbers!
-- Modified on 9/18/2011 5:21:21 AM

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 5:40:25 AM

Insults_R_Us1406 reads

Congratulations dphil,

 I cotton to written  words of brilliantly perceptive  Southern Gentlemen .

  Beyond any shadow of doubt , your reply to the P&R board dummy was five star .

He'll never know , sticking his head in the muck after reading your first point.

Priapus531905 reads

Btw, as evidenced by your current posting, your syntax stinks. Pick up a copy of "Elements of Style".  And while you're at it, dispense with your chickenshit aliases.

Phil is from So. Cal., NOT the south.

Btw, you shouldn't talk about someone "sticking their head in the muck"

Idiot.

you could possibly pick up a copy of "Elements of Style" [sic] and at the same time dispense with your aliases.

    Are you posting at Barnes and Noble these days?

    But we all can learn from "The Elements of Style," including when the word "south" should be capitalized

Hint: "Phil is from So. Cal., NOT the south [sic]."

     Okay, lesson over and I DON'T WANT ANYONE PERUSING MY POSTS FOR STYLISTIC ERRORS LOL.

Priapus531834 reads

Why ? Ask Quad about that------;)

Speaking of Quad, are you inferring he can't multitask ? Can't chew gum & walk at the same time?!

Oh, wait, we ARE talking about Quad after all----------

Snowman391375 reads

Reduced to personal attacks because he has not facts.....

Yes my friends, that's poor poor Priap...

Priapus532320 reads

As for Quad, he was acting like his usual idiotic self, & I was "calling him on it".

"Snowgeezer", you really need to take your Aricept--------;)

I am not Souther, but I really like the south oral tradition.  

There are a handful of cultures that have great speaking/writing traditons.  The South is one, maybe because they got so many Irish.

Timbow1188 reads

Posted By: dncphil
I am not Souther, but I really like the south oral tradition.  

There are a handful of cultures that have great speaking/writing traditons.  The South is one, maybe because they got so many Irish.

by focusing on the Irish. The Scots also do wonderful things with words.  One of the highlights of that trip was just listening.

If you wear kilts, I am sorry to have omitted the Scots.

Posted By: Timbow
Posted By: dncphil
I am not Souther, but I really like the south oral tradition.  

There are a handful of cultures that have great speaking/writing traditons.  The South is one, maybe because they got so many Irish.

Timbow1034 reads

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916883
Oh, just pointing out  in the South they have a  strong history and this book by Sen. Jim Webb tells the story well but I do indeed have the Scots heritage ;)
,

Posted By: dncphil
by focusing on the Irish. The Scots also do wonderful things with words.  One of the highlights of that trip was just listening.

If you wear kilts, I am sorry to have omitted the Scots.
Posted By: Timbow
Posted By: dncphil
I am not Souther, but I really like the south oral tradition.  

There are a handful of cultures that have great speaking/writing traditons.  The South is one, maybe because they got so many Irish.

Posted By: dncphil

1) Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, which he pulled us out of, in spite of major calamaties for which he is not to blame, Enron, the Tech Bubble Burst, and 9-11.
Bush inherited a tiny recession and made it worse by standing around with his thumb up his ass while 9/11 happened. He pulled us out of that recession by allowing the housing bubble to develop and spending like a drunken sailor. You give me a 12 trillion dollar credit card, and I can show you what it's like to live large, too.
Posted By: dncphil
He also pulled us out much faster than someone else who inherited a recession.  In the middle of Bush's term, the unemployment rate was so low, we can only dream of it.  I think it was in the 5% range, but memory is bad.
Are you really trying to compare the recession of the early 2000's with the Great Recession? Since your memory is so bad, let's review. Unemployment was at 4.2% when Bush took office. By June 2003, it peaked at 6.4%. That was the worse part of that recession. 6.4%. With the housing bubble fueling the economy, he managed to get it down to 4.4%. He left office with a 7.8% unemployment.

Since then, unemployment at been at damn near double digit levels, which has only happened twice before since the BLS has been counting them. During the Reagan administration there were double digit unemployment rates, and it took Reagan 7 years to get that number down to where Carter had it. The other time was during the Great Depression.
Posted By: dncphil

2) At least one of the wars that it mentions is ACCORDING TO OBAMA a "war of necessity.
How can I argue with that? Bush was 1 for 2 in fighting WARS that were worth fighting. And speaking of it's costs, economist Joe Stiglitz has estimated the War on Terror will cost 3.7 trillion, which is more than the entire US debt incurred up to the Reagan administration. But 1 out of 2 wars actually being NECESSARY....that's not too bad, is it, Phil?
Posted By: dncphil

3) the two wars together, according to the article, cost 1.3 trillion in 9 years.  Obama's first stimulus cost 800 billion in one year.
The stimulus wouldn't have been necessary unless Obama was handed a giant turd sandwich. It was using 787 billion, a third of which was tax cuts, to plug a 6 trillion dollar hole from lost housing wealth.
Posted By: dncphil
The prescription drug thing is funny.  Dems create program, after program, after program, and Bush has a program that gives drugs to seniors, and you would think he is killing puppies.
The ultimate chutzpah Phil is calling a giant corporate welfare check to the pharmaceutical industry that bars Medicare from negotiating bulk drug prices as "giving drugs to seniors".  
Posted By: dncphil

Finally, TARP was an emergency, unlike the current proposed round of cuts. TARP focused on immediate instittuions that were in danger.
TARP was not an emergency. It was a scam, plain and simple.
Posted By: dncphil

The spending by Obama is a flop.  There have been too many programs to list where the "jobs saved and created" cost an insane amount per job.  Things like the recent weatherization program in CA where it cost over $250,000 to create each construction job, a program repeated in Seatle.  In project after project after project, the cost per job is almost funny.
Are you still talking about weatherization in the summer?

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 1:57:03 PM

Don't have time to respond to all, so I will go for low hanging.

I am still talking about weatherization because we are still paying for it.

Okay. I won't mentione weatherization.  How about solar panels for $500,000,000.  Ooopsie Daisy

Would you like me to switch to a 45 billion dollar train between corcoran and concord that is already 10 billion over original estimates and a route isn't fixed yet.

Also, I love "The Great Recession."  they tag on an adjective and everyone adopts it.  IT wasn't that worse than the one Reagan inherited in terms of unemployment, inflation, interest rates etc.  

The total cost of the War on Terrorism is more than just the two wars. But maybe you would not have us beef up airport security or try to monitor terrorism.  

In any event, no matter how you cut it.  Obama spent more in one year that all of Bush's wars combined.

Finally, to say Bush made it worse if funny.  He didn 't create the housing bubble. In 2003 he tried to put limits of Freddie and Fannie, but people like Dodd and Schumer kept screaming it was healthy.
And to say he made it worse.....

I said I was not enamoured by TARP, but you ignored the fact that Obama was 100% behind it, as were almost all Dems.  But it is Bush's fault.  

Posted By: willywonka4u
Posted By: dncphil

1) Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, which he pulled us out of, in spite of major calamaties for which he is not to blame, Enron, the Tech Bubble Burst, and 9-11.
Bush inherited a tiny recession and made it worse by standing around with his thumb up his ass while 9/11 happened. He pulled us out of that recession by allowing the housing bubble to develop and spending like a drunken sailor. You give me a 12 trillion dollar credit card, and I can show you what it's like to live large, too.
Posted By: dncphil
He also pulled us out much faster than someone else who inherited a recession.  In the middle of Bush's term, the unemployment rate was so low, we can only dream of it.  I think it was in the 5% range, but memory is bad.
Are you really trying to compare the recession of the early 2000's with the Great Recession? Since your memory is so bad, let's review. Unemployment was at 4.2% when Bush took office. By June 2003, it peaked at 6.4%. That was the worse part of that recession. 6.4%. With the housing bubble fueling the economy, he managed to get it down to 4.4%. He left office with a 7.8% unemployment.

Since then, unemployment at been at damn near double digit levels, which has only happened twice before since the BLS has been counting them. During the Reagan administration there were double digit unemployment rates, and it took Reagan 7 years to get that number down to where Carter had it. The other time was during the Great Depression.
Posted By: dncphil

2) At least one of the wars that it mentions is ACCORDING TO OBAMA a "war of necessity.
How can I argue with that? Bush was 1 for 2 in fighting WARS that were worth fighting. And speaking of it's costs, economist Joe Stiglitz has estimated the War on Terror will cost 3.7 trillion, which is more than the entire US debt incurred up to the Reagan administration. But 1 out of 2 wars actually being NECESSARY....that's not too bad, is it, Phil?
Posted By: dncphil

3) the two wars together, according to the article, cost 1.3 trillion in 9 years.  Obama's first stimulus cost 800 billion in one year.
The stimulus wouldn't have been necessary unless Obama was handed a giant turd sandwich. It was using 787 billion, a third of which was tax cuts, to plug a 6 trillion dollar hole from lost housing wealth.
Posted By: dncphil
The prescription drug thing is funny.  Dems create program, after program, after program, and Bush has a program that gives drugs to seniors, and you would think he is killing puppies.
The ultimate chutzpah Phil is calling a giant corporate welfare check to the pharmaceutical industry that bars Medicare from negotiating bulk drug prices as "giving drugs to seniors".  
Posted By: dncphil

Finally, TARP was an emergency, unlike the current proposed round of cuts. TARP focused on immediate instittuions that were in danger.
TARP was not an emergency. It was a scam, plain and simple.
Posted By: dncphil

The spending by Obama is a flop.  There have been too many programs to list where the "jobs saved and created" cost an insane amount per job.  Things like the recent weatherization program in CA where it cost over $250,000 to create each construction job, a program repeated in Seatle.  In project after project after project, the cost per job is almost funny.
Are you still talking about weatherization in the summer?

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 1:57:03 PM
-- Modified on 9/18/2011 3:00:23 PM

with insults and name-calling. For a lawyer, your OK.lol.

I try to avoid the Law as much as possible. Hoping to semi-quit

Posted By: BreakerMorant
with insults and name-calling. For a lawyer, your OK.lol.

Phil, I really do try to abstain from name calling (unless it really is warranted, as in liorr's case), but jesus man. How faithfully can you keep regurgitating reich wing pieties before you get a headache?

Posted By: dncphil

I am still talking about weatherization because we are still paying for it.

Okay. I won't mentione weatherization.  How about solar panels for $500,000,000.  Ooopsie Daisy

Would you like me to switch to a 45 billion dollar train between corcoran and concord that is already 10 billion over original estimates and a route isn't fixed yet.
Do you not believe that there were setbacks and poor investment decisions made when the world switched it's energy resources from timber to fossil fuels? Investing in a new energy resource isn't just about putting money in and waiting for the results to come falling into your hands. It's about fucking up. It's about screwing up. It's about figuring out what works, and what doesn't work. The interstate highway system wasn't built in a day, and neither will a high speed rail system or renewable energy. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but if people like you were around to pooh-pooh everyone who dared to dream, then perhaps the Western world would never have been discovered, man never would have achieved flight, and never would have set foot on the moon. After all, these things cost a shit ton of money.
Posted By: dncphil

Also, I love "The Great Recession."  they tag on an adjective and everyone adopts it.  IT wasn't that worse than the one Reagan inherited in terms of unemployment, inflation, interest rates etc.
So now you're comparing The Great Recession to the stagflation of the late 70's and early 80's. Well, you're right Phil. The inflation and interest rates that resulted from stagflation is worse than what occurred with the Great Recession. Those BLS numbers are little tricker since they count fewer people then they did in Reagan's day. They are comparable, however. You know what is worse today than during the 80's? Our trade deficit. Our debt. The deindustrialization of America. 30 years of declining purchasing power. And a housing bubble bust that's like nothing in US history. (see graph below)
Posted By: dncphil

The total cost of the War on Terrorism is more than just the two wars. But maybe you would not have us beef up airport security or try to monitor terrorism.
To the best of my knowledge, that 3.7 trillion dollar figure did not account for increased security costs. (see link below)
Posted By: dncphil
In any event, no matter how you cut it.  Obama spent more in one year that all of Bush's wars combined.
1) it costs a shit ton of money to run the strongest government on earth. and 2) you're wrong. The US federal budget has (so far) never exceeded 3.7 trillion, and it's estimated that the War on Terror (and not the related security costs) could be as high as 4.4 trillion. It could be lower, but we'd have to cut a shit ton of money from Veterans Affairs and leave our vets holding the bag.
Posted By: dncphil

Finally, to say Bush made it worse if funny.  He didn 't create the housing bubble. In 2003 he tried to put limits of Freddie and Fannie, but people like Dodd and Schumer kept screaming it was healthy.
And to say he made it worse.....
See, Phil, this is why I call you names. Are you STILL regurgitating this reich wing talking point that the housing bubble was caused by Freddie and Fannie? Dodd and Schumer kept screaming about what? Screaming from a position of power? Bush had more power than any other President in my lifetime. He didn't sign a single veto until the Dems took the House in 2007, when the housing bubble was already beginning to collapse. He didn't do a damn thing to prevent it, and his pushing for lower capital gains tax rates only made the problem worse. It's not like they didn't see it coming either. Why the hell do you think the GOP was in such a hurry to "reform" bankruptcy laws?
Posted By: dncphil

I said I was not enamoured by TARP, but you ignored the fact that Obama was 100% behind it, as were almost all Dems.  But it is Bush's fault.
TARP was a scam. The Bush administration sold it to Congress the exact same way they sold 9/11 and the Iraq war. With endless fear mongering. It was relentless. And the Dems in the House rejected it. And that's when the fear mongering went into overdrive.

I've never said that I don't blame the Dems for giving in to the TARP scam. But the reality Phil, is that there was NO WAY IN HELL it would have even come to the floor of the House for a vote if it wasn't for a very sophicated and relentless fear campaign by the Bush administration to get it passed. Without that, it would have been a non-starter.

I can pull up articles that refute your points, however, that is an exercise in futility  so i will just post an article from back in 2004 to make you think about your first point.

In March 2001, the U.S. economy went into recession for the first time in ten years, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER.) NBER -- the private, nonpartisan organization whose business cycle announcements have long been considered the definitive word on the topic -- announced its determination on November 26, 2001:

In short, NBER is widely respected, long recognized as the arbiter of recessions, and is headed by a Bush ally; so if NBER says the recession began in March 2001, the recession began in March 2001.

Timbow2901 reads

Posted By: anonymousfun
you may get a grain of reality other than Faux numbers!
http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16



-- Modified on 9/18/2011 6:01:05 AM

You are right, but I never bother arguing that. People don't understand that it was illusory.

The bottom line is no matter who they hem and haw, spending is at a record high and a higher percent of GDP.

by not citing another idealogue website, I might pay attention.

Stop advertising you are an idiot. Do you know how many idealogue websites are there and delusional people like yourself drink the Kooli-Aid they serve up, belivieve it, repeat it thinking it makes look informed and intelligent. Really, it does not, it does exactly the opposite.

Why don't go look at Department of Treasury, CBO or Non-Partisan Web sites, you won't because you do not understand numebrs, or econmoics that well. It is evident from your wingnut posts equating macro economics of the largest economy in the world to a Visa or Macys credit card.

Timbow990 reads

sites  and had you even read the article first ,which is very thought out based on actual gov and CBO data , you may not have spouted off nonsense which makes you look like even more of a fool :)  

Posted By: anonymousfun
by not citing another idealogue website, I might pay attention.

Stop advertising you are an idiot. Do you know how many idealogue websites are there and delusional people like yourself drink the Kooli-Aid they serve up, belivieve it, repeat it thinking it makes look informed and intelligent. Really, it does not, it does exactly the opposite.

Why don't go look at Department of Treasury, CBO or Non-Partisan Web sites, you won't because you do not understand numebrs, or econmoics that well. It is evident from your wingnut posts equating macro economics of the largest economy in the world to a Visa or Macys credit card.

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 10:11:56 AM

that's no doubt why AF does'nt have time to read it.

So much easier to be right when not encumbered by the burden facts present.

There is no way that AF could possibly look to be more of a fool. lol

He can't even spell "numbers" or economics" much less understand them. lol

Because that would be the only explanation for me siding with AF in his ridiculous argument. I swear to God, sometimes I think a twelve year old has gained access to his computer, but then I realize that the twelve year old would probably make more sense. lol


He used links to those government sites. Did you fucking read the 1st page? Someone questioned his numbers so he decided to include the link.



Both you and GaG go fuck each other.

Posted By: Timbow
sites  and had you even read the article first ,which is very thought out based on actual gov and CBO data , you may not have spouted off nonsense which makes you look like even more of a fool :)  
Posted By: anonymousfun
by not citing another idealogue website, I might pay attention.

Stop advertising you are an idiot. Do you know how many idealogue websites are there and delusional people like yourself drink the Kooli-Aid they serve up, belivieve it, repeat it thinking it makes look informed and intelligent. Really, it does not, it does exactly the opposite.

Why don't go look at Department of Treasury, CBO or Non-Partisan Web sites, you won't because you do not understand numebrs, or econmoics that well. It is evident from your wingnut posts equating macro economics of the largest economy in the world to a Visa or Macys credit card.

-- Modified on 9/18/2011 10:11:56 AM


The left just loves to call names and attack.

The funniest thing is you accuse him of referring to biased citations.  This is a perfect ad hominem attack - attack the source without saying why the facts are wrong.  

Even a biased source, right or left, can tell the truth.

Indeed, in England and other places it is assumed papers have a bias.  If you want to attack what they say, you have to do more than say, "The Times said...." or "The Guardian said...."
You have to say why it is wrong.

We could play your game all day and discredit things when every any cites the NY Times, which is a self-admitted liberal publication according to their own ombudsman.  The same for Huff Post, or anything else.

All you do is have six insults in the first three sentences and don't point to one false statement.

Posted By: anonymousfun
by not citing another idealogue website, I might pay attention.

Stop advertising you are an idiot. Do you know how many idealogue websites are there and delusional people like yourself drink the Kooli-Aid they serve up, belivieve it, repeat it thinking it makes look informed and intelligent. Really, it does not, it does exactly the opposite.

Why don't go look at Department of Treasury, CBO or Non-Partisan Web sites, you won't because you do not understand numebrs, or econmoics that well. It is evident from your wingnut posts equating macro economics of the largest economy in the world to a Visa or Macys credit card.

-JustSayin1167 reads

Here the data for fiscal year ending in 1999:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Notice the total debt was $5,656,270,901,615.43


Now here is the data for fiscal year ending in 2000:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Notice the total debt was $5,674,178,209,886.86

This was the smallest annual growth in the debt during the Clinton years. Notice that it GREW and did not shrink? Close to balanced but not.

Your so called leaders like Perry, Bachman, Palin ( I am not including Romney and Huntsman for obvious reasons) are feeding you bunch of crap and you are eating it.

The two i.e, Romney and Huntsman won't even get an invitation to the dance, especially Huntsman. The day he said Republican can't deny climate science is the day he lost his primary.

Republicans are looking for the next bigger and better Village Idiot to lead them.


For leaders who can be less than honest, one person bragged about the fact that he was able to mislead people.

Obama once said that he is a blank screen on which people project what they want to see.  That is amazing. It is saying that people don't know what they see when they see him, and he was PROUD of that fact.  (How else would you interpret it?  Oooops. I forgot. You  don't respond to specifics. Only say I am a wingnut.)

As to leaders misleading, how about spending hundreds of billions of dollars on "Shovel ready" projects, only to find that they weren't really shovel ready, the ver reason that the stimulus was passed.

Or how about, "I will go through every dime and see that none is wasted and Joe Biden is going to over see and and no one gets by Joe."
No one except Solyndra and another 100 billlion.

You will be paying for all the waste that slipped by Joe.  And you say I am eating crap.

Or how about "and no illegal alien will be eligible for any healthcare benefits......"  (Someone was censured for saying that was a lie.)

You want more crap that you eat?

Posted By: anonymousfun
Your so called leaders like Perry, Bachman, Palin ( I am not including Romney and Huntsman for obvious reasons) are feeding you bunch of crap and you are eating it.

The two i.e, Romney and Huntsman won't even get an invitation to the dance, especially Huntsman. The day he said Republican can't deny climate science is the day he lost his primary.

Republicans are looking for the next bigger and better Village Idiot to lead them.

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