Not sure if this is the board or not for this, but here it goes.
I am a secular humanist; my wife is devoutly religious. Due to a complete disconnect in our sex drives, I hobby.
Let's assume that she is correct and someday when she dies, she goes to heaven. Sometime after that, I die and go to heaven (hopefully I am forgiven my secular humanist mindset).
Let's assume she never knew I hobbied. Would she know once she was in heaven and blessed with immortal life, or are my secrets still my own?
One imagines that the answer is that I am going to hell, but assume that I am forgiven my sins and am allowed into heaven.
Sorry about the alias, but I want to avoid the "you atheist pig" flames...and I think this is a worthwhile question philosophically.
Yeah, she'll most likely know.
But, So What? You're dead, right? What can she possibly do to you at THAT point?
Anyway, I'm guessing that, if there's an afterlife, we're all far beyond these petty concerns of keeping secrets, nursing grudges, giving and taking offense, jealousy, wounded pride, etc...
... you stay married forever.
And our "sins" of this life are forgotten and not counted against those of us whose names are written in the "Lamb's book of life"...
So even if your wife found out about your earthly-hobbying, she would not still be your wife, there won't be any "sexual-identity" between you two or anybody else, She will lack the ability to experence sad or hurtful emotions, and there is no "records" kept of wrong-doings from this life that will pass into the next life...
BTW, when we die we don't actually go to "Heaven" which is where God dwells, we go to to a lessor-relm where we will rest in Christ until judgment-day, there we will be sifted like wheat from shaff and either enter into the "New Jerusalem" with Christ, or enter into the lake of fire where we will cease to exist... there is no such place as "hell" for the human-spirit, Hell is only for eternal evil spirits, such as Satan, the Anti-Christ, and defected-angels otherwise known as "demons"... God is "just" and therefore will not punish eternally a creature if finite-existance such as a human...
Here we go again...
I was going to respond with a diatribe shredding your zealously archaic idealogical blurt.
Then I remembered how you have failed to properly respond to any of the other diatribes I have posted since you became Moderator, despite your repeated promises to do so.
Suffice it to say, I disagree with your perspective. Someone more thin-skinned might even find it insulting.
could regard another's religious views "insulting".
You don't understand how being told you're gonna burn in eternal damnation, not for anything you did, per se, but because you didn't believe a particular fable is "true" could be seen as insulting?
No, please, burn me at the stake, I'm not insulted.
How about my religious view that anyone who is religious must be a complete and utter fool, who is so afraid of death that they insist upon deceiving themselves, and who are so weak minded that killing anyone who dares to question them is their only option. Is that insulting?
RWU, I appreciate your perspective. Thanks for asking.... look at his words:
BTW, when we die we don't actually go to "Heaven" which is where God dwells, we go to to a lessor-relm where we will rest in Christ until judgment-day, there we will be sifted like wheat from shaff and either enter into the "New Jerusalem" with Christ, or enter into the lake of fire where we will cease to exist...
if *I* do not believe or acknowledge Jesus Christ,
if *I* do not turn my back on my own belief system and embrace the Christ mythos
if *I* do not choose to rest "in Christ", I won't enter "New Jerusalem" and I will be destroyed.
Well, *I* do not believe in Jesus Christ. Never have, never will.
The words insinuate that because I do not subscribe to this perspective, I am unworthy of existence.
To that perspective, I say "fuck you". Who are you to dare tell me MY beliefs are unworthy?
This world is fucked up because of the arrogance and hubris of self-serving power mongers using the camouflage of religious dogma to perpetuate their preposterous claim of superiority.
I know I'm not making friends with this point of view... frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm sick of dogma-spouting religious fools spewing their silly tales of fearsome retribution and ultimate redemption. It's all fabrications and manipulations.
Now how do you like THEM apples?
...How do you like them fuckin' apples? Lol!
Seriously, I do see and understand your argument, and "the church" has been guilty for 2000 years of ramming unwanted dogma down the throats of various cultures around the world... Often woth force and even by sword... However, that church missed several points along the way... It assumed that anyone who did not believe in Christ was automatically sent to Hell where they would be tortured in fire for eternity. Which the Bible does NOT say...
Also, that church took "The Great Commission" out of context... We Christians were ONLY told to "go into all the world and proclaim the Good News". We were never asked to fight battles over it, march on cities and countries in the name of it, or establish systems of government that exclusively promote it and exclude other views from being talked about or taught...
We Christians were ONLY asked to enter into the marketplace of ideas, offer the concepts of "The Gospels" which ONLY include the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John... We were never asked to teach all 66 canonized books! The rest of the Old and New testoment area all specific writings to specific people for specific reasons...
"The Bible" is not one big take it or leave it book! And this misguided view is where all the hhistorical problems can be traced to...
Do I believe that the only way to receive eternal life is through Jesus; Yes
Do I think it's my responsibility to change anyones mind or convince or compell them to accept Christ as their Savior; No
Christianity is a FREE choice, and a personal one, however based on the historical actions that some churches took to prositelize, I can understand the roots of world-wide hostlity to Cheistianity...
You probably like the culture, the connection to your ancestors and history, basically agree with the morality espoused (except for the exceptions noted below),and, who knows, maybe you really like the hymns (my Mom does, too) but you don't REALLY believe it.
If you did, you never would have spent, at the absolute minimum, $1950 on fornications with prostitutes(soley based on your reviews). Jesus would have you give that money to the poor (ohh that poor, poor, $300/hour escort, let me aid her, LOL), and he specifically prohibits fornication. And he specifically says these things in the Gospels you revere so much. Nothing vague or open to interpretation about it. And, I haven't researched your previous postings or reviews to confirm if you are being unfaithful to a wife or not, but if you are, that's a real bad one with the J-Man.
If you genuinely BELIEVED these things, you would be shitting yourself about your upcoming trip to Hell.
Yeah, yeah, I know, Jesus will forgive you, cuz you're in the club. But why won't he forgive me? OK, so I won't give mt money to some televangelist, or pray to him, or tell him how cool he is, etc... But he really so insecure and immature that he can't handle a little independent thought? He's the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, supposedly, yet he's gonna send me to Hell for ETERNITY, for my actions during a very, very brief 80-90 years (hardly a speck compared to eternity). And not for anything I did, just cuz I can't bring myself to believe. I stopped believing in Santa when I was 3 too, that kind of blind faith just isn't in me. And God should know this too.
So I figure he'll give me a second shot after I'm dead. When I actually meet him, I'll probably believe completely. Then I will demand an apology be given to all those murdered and tortured in his name.
... and pipe-organ are adaptations to the church from european-theater.... Much of what the "church-ladies" think is "Christian" is just bullshit traditions that have been hung on to for way too long, and perhaps never should have been part of church-life in the first place...
Actually, regarding my hobbying, I've been at it for 19 years, spent well over a quarter-million on it, and fucked more than a thousand hookers, prostutes, AMP-girls, and providers in that time... Was it "sinful"? OF COURSE! But will I burn in hell for it? Nope... "salvation" is a free-gift, thus it is not required to earn a free-gift with my offering of obedience to a set of impossible to achieve standards...
The woman caught in adultry and brought before Jesus to be judged and stoned to death was rescued by Jesus when he said "you who is without sin, cast the first stone"... The next phrase "go and sin nomore" was added to the text 325 years later by the catholic-church... Which has built it'self upon strict codes and dogmatic-legalism, so no wonder they needed to tamper with the truth in an effort to keep the people paying for salvation while they built their empire upon the cash-for-forgiveness ponzi-sceme!
If people realized that the price was paid for IN FULL for any and all sins of past, present and future, it'd be damn hard to squeeze them for cash...
Everyone is free to believe whatever they wish (or not believe whatever they wish). If you share this viewpoint then those beliefs should never "insult" you. By saying you are insulted is in fact an attempt to deny that person their access to the belief.
As long as their ACTIONS do not infringe upon you then you should have no say in their beliefs and how they express same. If their belief has an opinion as to your eventual destiny, what do you care? It's never going to happen, because you do not believe it. Right?
Now, you also point out man's long and bloody history where actions taken have indeed created much "infringement". Granted, most of the bloody action has been in the name of religion (mostly, if not all in a perverted fashion), but still you should keep separate your challenging of actions vs. words.
-- Modified on 5/15/2007 10:33:18 AM
Why am I not surprised?
But when you're dead, you're dead. That's it. Some folks have faith that there is something beyond and more power to them, as long as they don't let it interfere with our secular system of government.
There's a lunatic running Iran who wants to bring on Armageddon (or whatever it's called in Islam). Now that is scary.
-- Modified on 5/15/2007 9:42:13 PM
...Not only that, but due to your Jewish birthrights and various covenants set forth by the Sovereign, you have a "special dispensation" that does not require you to grasp N/T concepts of "Salvation"...
My origional opinion is purely based on N/T "revelation", much of which is Quoting Christ himself... Hardly seems worth arguing with someone who regects the entire premise upon which my opinion is based...
BTW, as to the last one of these stand offs we had [Christianity of the founding-fathers] my argument was based upon a study of their personal-letters, papers, journals, etc... Not upon the public-record... Jefferson and Franklin were both beleivers in "The Way" ie; Christianity, however were not members of a church... They were NOT deists which suggests they rejected Christ as the atoning-sacrifice for the sins of humanity, but they rejected the false dogmatic organization that grew out of the pagan-culture that heard of what Christ did and adapted the story to fit their system nobles and conquest....
Jefferson, Washington, Franklin and countless others were members of the Masons, which is NOT a religion, but merely a social-order, much like the PTA is for school-moms... It does not limit someone's religious views, nor exclude them from Christianity as you suggested it did...
As far as your "insulting" comment... Why would I give a shit is my views were "insulting"?? Am I missing your point??
it is a place where motorcycles(and cars)get more powerful and faster with every mile you put on em' If anybody got an axe to grind for my tresspasses here on earth they're gonna' really hafta' know how too shred to catch my ass. 
Ya' ever think about installing a blower?
Ya’ might need to add a few more square inches of tire patch in the rear; But whatdafuck!!
Thank you FR
you're actually describing an existing performance configuration.
The Weiand blower configuration with 32" cheater slicks on the back produces 500hp. Replace the 350 smallblock with the 434 DART motor, and you get 650 hp. Add the nitrous, and you're looking at 1180 hp, 0-60 in 1.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 6.1 seconds, top speed measured at 248 mph on the Bonneville Salt flats.... and its completely 100% street legal.
mine is fast enough ... 0-100 in 6.8, 9 second 1/4 mile, top speed 178.
Doc is one of the best! Great attitude! go!
BSD
-- Modified on 5/14/2007 10:33:16 AM
-- Modified on 5/14/2007 10:33:49 AM
i truly believe we agree on the things that matter
Philosophically speaking... I believe one's obligation to another on this plane of existence ends with the death of one or the other. Till Death Do Us Part; even Dogma recognizes that much.
Once we die, the "energy" that comprises our self-awareness changes, and we are free to take whatever course our destiny has in store.
If we have been so lucky as to have been paired with our true "Soulmate", for lack of a better term, then the odds are we shall once again be reunited in some form or fashion down the road, all prior transgressions forgiven and forgotten.
It is about the eternity of the spirit, the Big Picture.
Mere imaginatives like Hell and Heaven are simply too limited in scope.
We were not and are not promised "eternity of the spirit", some will receive the "gift" of eternal-life, but most will not, and thus become un-made on the day of judgment...
("Biblically" speaking, of course...)
But, I agree that the narrow fundamentalist-view of Heaven and
Hell are far to narrow in scope, and are merely a dogmatic-overlay to what the New Testament actually teaches...
that your wife chose the wrong one and is therefore more likely to piss off God and end up in eternal damnation. And God knows, it would not be heaven if you were still married.
does your Mother know (after she departs) about all those times you masterbated?
And if so, will she say something about it?
The Moslems are much more scary than the Xtians, mostly because they do REALLY BELIEVE their dogma.
Their bark is worse than their bite [LOL]!
interest than worry, a nice diversion you see.
What is truly worrysom is your source of information (maybe lack of information?) or maybe better put, your mis-information