Glen Beck quote!

We as americans have lost have had more freedoms infringed upon in the past 11 years since 9/11 than in the previous 225 years. The government is using fear from single isolated acts to push their own adgenda and limit everyone of the rights promised us in the bill of rights. Up until the last few months I had never writen a government offical. Now I dont think we can write, call or email enough. The power grab in the name of public safety has started. Every thing from increasing taxes on things like smoking and soda to bullets and alcohol.  They dont have to make things illegal to control us, just taxing them will serve their purpose.
      Dont wait to respond to their actions write, call or email today and contact your local and federally elected officials. Where ever you stand contact them and let them know you are politically active and watching the bills they support.
       Homeland Security is buy so much ammunition because they are planning on making manufacture of it illegal in the usa. Its the only thing short of a war against it s own people that makes sense. If anyone else has an different theory I d love to hear it.

I just wish I could buy a few boxes of 9mm. It's been 6 weeks since I've gone to the range, and I was horrified to discover myself fumbling during a field strip. I guess you really do have to practice this stuff all the time.

If you had paid attention to the IFB, you would see that the DHHS is buying the 21.6 million rounds not to wage war on American citizens but for –gasp – use at the DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.

      In other words, we  prefer that our federal agents actually be able to hit the target when they fire so we put them through rigorous target practice. That takes a lot of ammo before we can certify them as competent to use firearms.

     Still too much ammo you say? Hello- have you ever heard of the concept of bulk purchasing? That is right – when Uncle Sam purchases a large quantity, he get a lower price. So in other words, Janet is prudently saving the taxpayers  money by purchasing enough ammo to stock the firing range for at least the rest of Mr. Obama’s term.

     So I think you owe her an apology.

      And now we return you to tonight’s episode of the X Files where Scully and Mulder discuss Mein’s strange return to the P & R Board:

“Mulder, I thought Mein had been abducted by aliens.”
“The aliens decided they didn’t want him, Scully. He’s just too annoying.”
“Well, what do you make of his fascination with Ms. Napolitano. Is she in any danger?”
“Actually Scully, I think she would welcome Mein’s attention. She’s not exactly turning down suitors, you know, and Mein may be the one guy capable of handling her …um, unusual sexual proclivities.”
“You mean Mein catches instead of pitches?”
“Another reason the aliens didn’t want him, Scully. He’ll be in the Hall of Fame one day.”



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That explanation works if they stopped buying ammo and were certifying all DHS officers now. It works out to 7600 rounds per employee. I'm guessing that not every employee is certified for M4's. 1.625 billion rounds is an astromonical number, the US military certs new recruits with approximately 2500 rounds and recerts them with around 200. These numbers probably vary some but even the best trained units fire less then 2500 rnds per soldier per month, think Seals, Delta and Rangers.
     Buying in bulk has limits. It's not really any cheaper to buy 100 million or 1 billion rounds, the profit margin one 100 million rounds is probably low enough that companies wont lower it anymore. Factor in that ammunition companies are selling every round they can produce, and many are backordered for months, where is the incentive for giving a huge price break?
      Also is stocking the shelves for 4 years really cost effective? I dont see many manufactures or other government agencies doing the same, one year isn't even common. Why not the extra 3 years if its such a savings?
       I'll agree that they might be ordering that far in advance because of the backlog of orders and they want to be sure to have their ammunition. Short of that I am not sure I agree with the idea its all for training.
       Just a little history the Nazi SS in 1930 had similar numbers of members per population as DHS does today. Their numbers rose 4 times over the years before the start of WW2 and their power grew as restrictions fell. DHS is basically a national police force that really can bypass most if not all of your civil rights if they see a need.
     

that were the subject of the 2/11/13 invitation to bid, not the 1.6 billion figure that some of the conspiracy websites have been throwing around, much to the the delight of the OP.

      So run your excellent analysis using this figure, instead of 1.6 billion, and tell us how you conclude.
As to the 1.6 billion, we had to spank the OP about that earlier bc he confused the difference between an outright purchase of massive amounts of ammo with the right to purchase over a four year period as needed, something I called a requirements contract and St. Croix knew the correct government contracting term which I have forgotten.

   Note also that this purchase is a small business set aside which makes it sound a lot more like Mr. Obama is trying to keep his promise to help small businesses rather than the OP's fear that he is stockpiling ammo for a government takeover. Further, the buyer is not DHHS itself but the specific agency listed on the IVB-DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.  DHHS buys ammo for the Coast Guard and Secret Service as well as other agencies under its umbrella;but as far as we can tell from the IVB, this purchase is solely for target practice.

And now I may have to have Scully and Mulder investigate you.

I guess I didn't verify the OP for validity and stand corrected.
  I would be interested in knowing the type of ammunition being purchased, FMJ's are typically used for target practice and JHP or Nosular tiped rounds are solely for anti-personal use typically.
   

Why DHS is buying all hollow point? No one I know uses hollow point ammo for target practice. It' roughly twice as expensive as full metal jacket plus it tears up target back stops needlessly. It's expressed purpose is to maximize damage to human flesh.

is really for the range as they say as I know nothing about guns but the invitation for bid seeks


a. Commercial Leaded training ammo .40 caliber 165 grain jacketed hollow point brass casing
b. Commercial Leaded training ammo pistol cartidge 9mm ball 124 grain jacketed hollow point
and
c. Commercial Leaded training ammo 9mm 115 grain

as to that, but they do say "jacketed hollow point" if that makes any difference, and it is expressly listed as
"commercial leaded training ammo," so I would have thought this was appropriate for the range.

But enough burbling from you. Unlike my beamish, frabjous, and brillig post, your post came off as a bit mimsy, certainly slithy, and as cry of the  perpetually in passion jubjub bird.

     Now as I exit the stage galumphing as usual, you would be well advised to beware TER’s version of the bandersnatch the next time you post. You saw what happened to Priapus.

I have never seen hallow points used for target practice. Maybe a clip or two to verify your scope/sighting but other than that its too expensive.

Jacketed hollow point ammo is primarily for use against unarmored human targets.

I am not a conspiricy theorist but I find some of the recent actions of our government stunning. The talk about removing and limiting personal gun ownership while the federal government is buying firearms, ammunition, body armor and hiring more agents in the DHHS, FBI, ATF and DEA than ever before. Adding provisions to allow federal employees to own these weapons yet take them from our hands.
   I agree that an AR15 is of very little use against the US army but they do serve a purpose if the government fails, or even stumbles.
    The truth is that most of the gun crimes and murders committed could easily happen with a 7 round magazine and in fact involve less than 5 rounds being fired leads me to believe that there is an alterior motive in the decision to remove high capacity mags. Many of the hand guns sold dont have a 7 round mag available, making them a useless gun in NY now and anywhere else that passes these restrictions. Even if manufactures start making 7 rnd mags it might be years before you can buy a LEGAL magazine in these states. Is there a reason they didn't use the commonly available 10 round magazine size? I think there is but could be wrong.
   Anyone who knows firearms knows that you can change clips in less then 2 seconds and maybe faster with practice, in a gun free zone will 2 seconds really matter? If its not to save lives what is the point?  
   
   

Also to clarify, the DHS classified the selective fire rifles it is (and has been) purchasing as "self defense weapons".

A minor clarification regarding magazine capacity in NY. . .
1) Pre-1994 high capacity magazines that had previously been grandfathered are now banned. Existing owners will be allowed one year to sell them out of state.
2) NY's previous magazine capacity limit(post-1994 mfg) was 10 rounds. It is now 7. Owners of 8, 9 and 10 round magazines (legal yesterday) are grandfathered but loading them with more that 7 rounds constitutes a misdemeanor.
3) Future sales of 8+ magazines is of course now illegal thus making new sales of most semi-automatic weapons pointless. Is it a little more than ironic that the two biggest manufacturers of low capacity (7 round) semi-auto handgun are Kimber and Kahr, both headquartered in NY?

The only difference it makes is the jacket helps protect the barrel from getting fouled as quickly than if the round was mostly exposed lead. The mushroom effect is still virtually the same, with or without the brass jacket. The HP brass jacket is serrated or slitted around the leading edges so it separates and mushrooms upon impact.

Most hollow point rounds, while substantially more expensive, generally fly straighter, than the cheaper more common fully jacketed rounds. I could see agencies preferring the more accurate style in order to make it slightly easier for its people to qualify.

Another factor I can imagine is that DHS would prefer to only stock one type of round. The ones they bought are suitable for both purposes (practice and most effectively killing people).

What I don't believe is DHS was concerned about keeping total costs down (e.g. large bulk quantities). Government agencies can be very effective at certain tasks but almost never is it efficient.

   I guess I havent read NY new gun regs. What is proposed in my home state is no grandfathering of magazines, 7 rounds max cap., all mag that dont fit need to be turned over or sold outside of the state, unless you can irreverseably modify them to only hold 7 rounds. Felony charges for not complying.
   Jacketed hollow points do serve a point, the jacket allows for maximum expansion without splintering (total fragmentation). The longer the bullet hangs together without fragmentation the deadlier it is.
    The best bullet for long range shooting is a FMJBT, full metal jacket boat tail. Hollow points tend to trap and swirl air in the nosular void and it decreases accuracy (hence the developement of nosular hollow points with the plastic filler). One advantage of personal defense rounds (hollow point rounds) is they are usually loaded heavier, a hotter round. They tend to be lighter (bullet mass) and leave the barrel at a higher fps. All things being equal (bullet weight and charge) a fmj round will be more accurate and carry its velocity farther.
  I own a Kimber and love it, but the 7 round limit in Minnesota would make my Glock, Para and Ruger 10/22 illegal until I find a 7 round mag. 80% of all handguns don't have a 7 or fewer round mag option, making me either an owner of a useless gun, single shot, or a felon. Neither option I am fond of at this point.
   I did see a comment on a minnesota board about waiting until the day after 7+ round mags are made a felony and having a huge group of nra members 10,000+ turn in illegal clips and demand to be charged as felons. It's an interesting theory,they couldn't hope to prosecute that many people, much less follow through on the manditory sentence.
   


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