Did the neo-cons somehow foresee 9/11?

Years before George W. Bush entered the White House, and years before the Sept. 11 attacks set the direction of his presidency, a group of influential neo-conservatives hatched a plan to get Saddam Hussein out of power.

The group, the Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, was founded in 1997. Among its supporters were three Republican former officials who were sitting out the Democratic presidency of Bill Clinton: Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz.

In open letters to Clinton and GOP congressional leaders the next year, the group called for "the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power" and a shift toward a more assertive U.S. policy in the Middle East, including the use of force if necessary to unseat Saddam.

And in a report just before the 2000 election that would bring Bush to power, the group predicted that the shift would come about slowly, unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."

http://www.newamericancentury.org
&
http://www.pnac.info/

I posted about them before within other threads.

It does make you think, and question just what's REALLY going on.

These guys are the scum of the Earth. They all share a religious\ethnic background and are hell-bent on removing any obstacles that could be a threat to Israel.

They are treasonists. They are acting in the best interests of a foreign government and not in the interests of America. They are using American force for their benefit and driving us into debt in the process.

It isn't about oil.

It isn't about people who hate our freedom. (which is diminishing daily).

It is all about Israel.

Think about who you are going to vote for. If they share the same ethnic\religious background as most of the elected in this country do, it will be more of the same; anything for Israel.

Californians Avoid Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Lantos ect...
Avoid John Kerry for president. (Bush is a shitbag also)

Vote for the constitution party.

Who is the nominee of the Constitution Party??  Adolph Hitler or Adolph Eichmann???

Listen Funtime, if Israel wanted to get Hussein they didn't need anyone else to do it.  They could have blown the whole fucking country back to the Middle Ages.  In fact, if they hadn't blown the shit out of Hussein's nuclear plants in the early 80's, you might be drinking nuclear waste right now.

What you and your "party" need to do is get a grip on reality and realize that not everything can be blamed on the Jews.  Including this post.

Maybe he did not intend it to read as it did.  Maybe he is simply a patriotic citizen who is fed up, for whatever reason, and does not know who to strike at.  But his post conjures up the very image of early Nazism.  First blame Jews for every wrong under the sun to make them appear scheming, unpatriotic and finally, sub-human. Then kill them to attempt to attain some f*@&!~ up vision of a perfect world.
 

-- Modified on 6/23/2004 7:35:11 PM

As mom always told me, the "funtimes" are always with us. That's why every Jew in good standing is mandated to have enough gold coins to bribe the border guards. Just in case.

And if you're looking for other examples of early Nazism, you don't have to go much further than the overwhelming passage of the updated decency act by the Senate, which would ban sexual and excretory discussions on radio and TV between the hours of 6 am to 10 pm. The fines are truly draconian, in the range of 500,000 per instance.

Well, there goes any real discussion of how AIDS is spread on the nightly news.

The nominee for the Constitution party is Michael Peroutka.

Here is a link to his site, and a link to the Constitution Party Web Site;



http://www.peroutka2004.com/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/


I agree and digagree that Israel could have gotten Saddam at anytime. The U.N. would have been down their throat,,,Oh thats right, the U.S.A. has veto power over the U.N., and just who controls America??

Maybe he did not intend it to read as it did.  Maybe he is simply a patriotic citizen who is fed up, for whatever reason, and does not know who to strike at.  But his post conjures up the very image of early Nazism.  First blame Jews for every wrong under the sun to make them appear scheming, unpatriotic and finally, sub-human. Then kill them to attempt to attain some f*@&!~ up vision of a perfect world.


Yes stilltryin, I am a patriotic citizen, and yes, there are similarities to early Nazism. We know that Hitler didn't just attack the Jews for no reason. Something about an economic boycott in 1933.

Lets see, Jewish leaders in combination with powerful international financial interests, had launched a boycott of Germany for the express purpose of crippling her already precarious economy in the hope of bringing down the new Hitler regime. It was only then that Germany struck back in response.

On 12 January 1952, Rabbi Emanuel Rabinovich was asked to give a keynote speech to the Emergency Council of European Rabbis in Budapest, Hungary.


"Greetings, my children! You have been called here to recapitulate the principal steps of our new program. As you know, we had hoped to have twenty years between the wars to consolidate the great gains which we made from World War II, but our increasing numbers in certain vital areas is arousing opposition to us, and we must now work with every means at our disposal to precipitate World War III.

"The goal for which we have striven so concertedly for three thousand years is at last within our reach, and because its fulfilment is so apparent, it behooves us to increase our efforts and our caution tenfold. I can safely promise you that before ten years have passed, our race will have its rightful place in the world, with every Jew a king and every gentile a slave! (applause from the gathering)

"You remember the success of our propaganda campaign during the 1930's, which aroused anti-American passions in Germany, at the same time we were arousing anti-German passions in America, a campaign which culminated in the Second World War. A similar propaganda campaign is now being waged intensively throughout the world. A war fever is being worked up in Russia by an incessant anti-American barrage, while a nationwide anti-Communist scare is sweeping America. This campaign is forcing all of the smaller nations to choose between the partnership of Russia or an alliance with the United States.

"Our most pressing problem at the moment is to inflame the lagging militaristic spirit of the Americans. (The failure of the Universal Military Training Act was a great setback to our plans, but we are assured that a suitable measure will be rushed through Congress immediately after the 1952 elections.) The Russian as well as the Asiatic peoples, are well under control, and offer no objections to war, but we must wait to secure the Americans.

"This program will achieve its objective, the Third World War, which will surpass in destruction all previous contests. Israel, of course, will remain neutral, and when both sides are devastated and exhausted, we will arbitrate, sending our Control Commissions into all of the wrecked countries. This war will end for all time our struggle against gentiles. We will openly reveal our identity with the races of Asia and Africa. I can state with assurance that the last generations of white children are being born. Our Control Commissions will, in the interests of peace and wiping out inter-racial tensions, forbid whites to mate with whites. The white women must cohabit with members of the dark races, the white men with black women. Thus the white race will disappear, for mixing the dark with the white means the end of the white man, and our most dangerous enemy, will become only a memory.

"We will embark on an era of ten thousand years of peace and plenty, the Pax Judaica, and our race will rule undisputed over the earth. Our superior intelligence will easily enable us to retain mastery over a world of dark peoples.

"There will be no more religions. Not only would the existence of a priest class remain a constant danger to our rule, but belief in an afterlife would give spiritual strength to irreconcilable elements in many countries. We will, however, retain the rituals and the customs of Judaism as the mark of our hereditary ruling caste, strengthened by our racial laws so that no Jew will be allowed to marry outside our race, nor will any stranger be accepted by us.

"We may have to repeat the grim days of World War II, when we were forced to let the Hitlerite bands (Hitler was a Jew and so were some of his generals) sacrifice some of our people, in order that we may have adequate documentation and witnesses to legally justify our trial and execution of the leaders of America and Russia as war criminals, after we have dictated the peace. I am sure you will need little preparation for such a duty, for sacrifice has always been the watchword of our people, and the death of a few thousand Jews in exchange for world leadership is indeed a small price to pay.

"To convince you of the certainty of that leadership, let me point out to you how we have turned all of the inventions of the white man into weapons against him. His printing presses and radios are the mouthpieces for our desires, and his heavy industry manufactures the instruments which he sends out to arm Asia and Africa against him. Our interests in Washington are greatly extending the Point Four program for developing industry in backward areas of the world so that after industrial plants and cities of Europe and America are destroyed by atomic warfare, the whites can offer no resistance against the larger masses of the dark races, who will maintain an unchallenged technological superiority

By the way, since we seem to have one of the original participants of the Wannsee Conference, possibly you could share some details on how the Holocaust was really organized.

in unison and said. WTF?

Hey FT-

you do know that that speech is pretty much known to be Soviet disinformation right?

Similar to the "elders of Zion" stuff put out by the Czarist version of the KGB in the fin de Siecle time .

If we run stuff- WHERE'S MY CHECK?


You remind me of the Poles who still blame their trouble on the Jews- AND THEY HELPED KILL ALMOST ALL OF THEM IN THE HOLOCAUST!

But of cource you think that did not happen.  You might have enjoyed my wedding where an Irish Family had over a hundred members and mine had about 20.  The rest went up in smoke.

You top the clueless fuck list, as far as I am concerned- but then you probaly think I top your evils of the world list.

Man we wish we could figure out where all this hatred comes from- we were getting persecuted throughout the period these guys think we were hardening our grip on the world!  Pretty hard to be dominant when you aren't even allowed to buy houses or own land!  But then thinking is poretty obviously not the anti-semite's strong suit!

You call yourselves respectable conservatives.  Why don't you respond to this guy?
    I could keep explaining why this guy is dead wrong until hell freezes over, but such a message would be far more meaningful coming from one of you (maybe, ALL of you).

The only thing that you can do is steel yourself for the philosophical war against people who think like him.  Do not dispair, because you will have every decent human being marching lockstep with you to face such evil.  And, regardless of what Funtimes69 thinks, you will not have to bribe or trick a single one of them, they will be doing it because it is the only right thing to do.

but usually anything involving conspiracy is 99.999% bullshit, and therefore, I really don't ever read it.  Although, there is some great satire out there that evolves around it.  Personally, the more the guy writes, the more clear it is that he's an idiot.  In fact, now that I have read it, I feel like an idiot.  Sorry to leave you alone in the fight, but I wasn't paying attention.

By the way, since we seem to have one of the original participants of the Wannsee Conference, possibly you could share some details on how the Holocaust was really organized.




There was outright collaboration between the Nazi leadership and the founders of what became the state of Israel.

Dissident Jewish writer Lenni Brennar's "Zionism in the ages of the dictators" published by a small press and not given the publicity it deserves by the so called "main stream" media (which is otherwise obsessed with the Holocaust era)was perhaps the first major endeavor in this realm.

To the Zionist leaders, Hitlers assumption of power held out the possibility of a flow of immigrants to Palestine. Previously, the majority of German Jews, who identified themselves as Germans, had little sympathy with the Zionist cause of promoting the ingathering of world Jewery to Palestine. But the Zionists saw that only the anti-semetic was likely to push the anti zionist german jews into the arms of Zionism.

For all the modern day wailing by wiorldwide supporters of Israel (not to mention the Israeli's themselves) about the "holocaust" they neglect to mention that making the situation in Germany as uncomfortable for the Jews as possible- in cooperation with German Nationla Socialism- was part of the plan.

This was the genesis of the so-called Transfer Agreement, the agreement between zionist jews and the national socialist government to transfer german jewry to palestine.

Zccording to Jewish historian Walter Laqueur and many others, German Jews were far from convinced that immigration to Palestine was the answer. Furthermore, although the majority of german jews refused to consider the Zionists as their political leaders, it is clear that Hitler protected and cooperated with the Zionists for the purposes of implementing the final soluition: the mass transfer of jews to the middle east.
--------------------------------------------------------------  
To summerize, the Zionists wanted a home state, Israel. The German jews who were Torah abiding jews felt that they were not to have a homeland according to the Torah. The only way the Zionists could get the non willing jews to migrate was by "creating" and "supporting" nazi atrocities against the unwilling.

Yes Zionists and Nazi's conspired together.

Fascinating stuff huh? Perhaps that is why the Israeli's are practicing "nazi like" acts against the Pals...

And the only nation in the region that separates Church and State.

Israel has not attacked its neighbors, only defended itself, and has done that very well.

No American has been called upon to shed his blood in defense of Israel, ever!

Israel has taken a desert wasteland and turned it into a productive garden, the envy of other middle east countries.

Israel has had nuclear weapons for over 30 years, but has never used them, the knowledge that they possess them has been enough to keep them safe from organized attacks as in 1967 or 1973.

Israel offered the PLO everything they claimed to want and it was refused by Arafat.  The reason?  He would not tolerate Israel's being!

So I would ask you funtime, why in the fuck would we not be supportive of them?

Do you think that if we didn't support Israel that the Islamic Fundamentalist would "like us"?  Get over it, their religion teaches them to hate all who do not embrace Islam!  And I assume that would include you!

At least with the exception of snafu929, who has had the guts to repudiate him.  

As for the others, surely, they'd have the guts to challenge his noxious views, or else we can conclude that they tend to agree with them, if not the ugly way that he expresses them.

-- Modified on 6/25/2004 11:42:37 AM

wow- we agree on  few points!

Except- Israel did atack in '67 (was about to Be attacked) and did attack in Lebanon ('80? "84?  I forget-  got to go back and read my several books on the subject)but otherwise has been defensive in strategy (seldom in tactics!)

Israel did shoot up an american spy ship in '67, I think even killing somer sailors- of course CIA/Pentagon never said WTF the ship was doing in the first place in a war zone.

Otherwise- you did well.  points all the way 'round.

BTW- Security in Israel? Never the cluster fuck it is here.  They profile like mo-fos.  Security men simply TALK to EVERYBODY, winnowing down possible suspects until they find good ones.

Here, I am a middle easter looking man who might have the SO and kids along for cover- put him in extra check line

There, I am Jewish Man travelling with his family- least likely to blow up- go straight to front of line.

Israel's proactive strategy in the early 80's was in response to raids into residential neighborhoods resulting in cold blooded killing women and children.  I contend that their actions were defensive.  And righteous. And productive!

The event you speak of where an American spy ship was targeted happened.  Israel was all over themselves apologizing for the mishap, even paid restitution to the victims and the victims families.

Furthermore, Israel is our only true friend on the planet.  And based on their ability to unleash hell if required, In my opinion, the best one to have.

Sully, like Jessie Jackson once said, "a stopped clock is right twice a day."  Just in case you wondered, It was a reference to you.  

Bribite, your post was good.  Also the one by Snafu was good also.  We will probaly clash during the future, but I have respect for the stand that you and Snafu took.  
    It is easy to feel frustration sometimes, but Funtime69 seems to have gone well beyond that.

test

"And the only nation in the region that separates Church and State"

Thats bs. Israel is a religious state. Yes there are palestinian christians in Israel, they have no power though.

"Israel has not attacked its neighbors, only defended itself, and has done that very well."

More BS. They are stealing land from the Pals everyday. that is attacking. Yes, they do defend themselves well. However, it is easy to do with so much American support in the form of firearms, planes, technology, and money. If we gave palestine the same amount of support, they might be able to defend their land with more than rocks, slingshots, and the suicide bomber.

"No American has been called upon to shed his blood in defense of Israel, ever!"

I thought thats what we're in Iraq for now. They weren't part of the 9\11 terrorists. Lets see, is it 900 American deaths yet?
No? Just 850... Thats 850 American Deaths to many, 850 Americans who have shed there blood for Israel.

"Israel has taken a desert wasteland and turned it into a productive garden, the envy of other middle east countries."

Israel has diverted about 90% of the water in the region for it's own use. Amnesty International has done a few pieces on this disturbing and deadly trend.


"Israel has had nuclear weapons for over 30 years, but has never used them, the knowledge that they possess them has been enough to keep them safe from organized attacks as in 1967 or 1973."

This is true. The part that they have nuclear weapons for 30 years. Why is it that only Israel can have nuclear weapons (I know India and Pakistan have them) and no one else can? Israel, the country that is in violation of 63 U.N. resolutions can have WMD's but no one else can...Thats consistent...Israel also developed their nuclear arsenal out of the conviction that the Holocaust justified any measures to insure their survival. I wrote a nice peace regarding the Holocaust yetserday. Sadly it was deleted.

"Israel offered the PLO everything they claimed to want and it was refused by Arafat.  The reason?  He would not tolerate Israel's being!"

I seem to recall Israel assassinating their own leadership for wanting to make real peace with the Pals.

"So I would ask you funtime, why in the fuck would we not be supportive of them?"

Hmmm, maybe for selling our top secret military aircraft designs to China against our wishes. Doing this at the same time they receive $15,139,178 daily from the United States. Some friend Israel is.

For bulldozing Americans like Rachel Corrie. For shooting Americans in the face such as Brian Avery. What did these people do? protest the inhume way the Israeli's treat the Pals. Pretty much the same thing jewish leaders here in America do , encourage the Mexicans and blacks to protest unfair treatment, However, when someone protests their unfair treatment, they receive death.

For bombing the U.S.S. Liberty. In cold blood. Someone made reference to it being a spy ship in private waters. Wrong. They were in international waters. They had been communicating with the Israeli's all day. Even waving to them. Then they bombed The Liberty, they killed 34 Americans and wounded 271 more.

Why did this happen?

The fact is that this was an extremely high-level and top-secret attempt to exploit an American ship, the USS Liberty, to create a war by falsely implicating the Egyptian government. The purpose was to provide an excuse to attack and discredit Egypt and provide a ready-made excuse for whatever the Israeli government wanted to do.


"Do you think that if we didn't support Israel that the Islamic Fundamentalist would "like us"?  Get over it, their religion teaches them to hate all who do not embrace Islam!  And I assume that would include you!"

Tough to say. Personally I think not. I would take measures not to agitate them, including stopping support of Israel. I would also curtail immigration from these parts of the world. It's a shame that a war for the middle east may be fought on our soil, due to us permitting these warring factions onto our shores.

Bribite, let me ask you something; you claim to be a conservative, I would think you would support Pat Buchanan. Do you ever listen to what he says about our support for Israel?

 

during the holocaust.  How someone can disagree with some of what you write is totally beyond comprehension by me, the only moral answer is to disagree with -nay- completely repudiate every word you write.

totally confused.  I get attacked when I applaud you on a cogent post?  Agreed with the spirit of your post, but do think offense is offense, even when highly provoked.

I too, like having Israel around. -even when we are not always straight with them (see Pollard case).  They are like our pitbull buddy in the mideast.

Glad you see I can be right at least twice a day.  Now to convince you I can be right more often...

I'm glad you have proven the capability to think clearly about some international issues. Hope to move on to more....

totally confused.  I get attacked when I applaud you on a cogent post?  Agreed with the spirit of your post, but do think offense is offense, even when highly provoked.

I too, like having Israel around. -even when we are not always straight with them (see Pollard case).  They are like our pitbull buddy in the mideast.

Glad you see I can be right at least twice a day.  Now to convince you I can be right more often...

I'm glad you have proven the capability to think clearly about some international issues. Hope to move on to more....

totally confused.  I get attacked when I applaud you on a cogent post?  Agreed with the spirit of your post, but do think offense is offense, even when highly provoked.

I too, like having Israel around. -even when we are not always straight with them (see Pollard case).  They are like our pitbull buddy in the mideast.

Glad you see I can be right at least twice a day.  Now to convince you I can be right more often...

I'm glad you have proven the capability to think clearly about some international issues. Hope to move on to more....

totally confused.  I get attacked when I applaud you on a cogent post?  Agreed with the spirit of your post, but do think offense is offense, even when highly provoked.

I too, like having Israel around. -even when we are not always straight with them (see Pollard case).  They are like our pitbull buddy in the mideast.

Glad you see I can be right at least twice a day.  Now to convince you I can be right more often...

I'm glad you have proven the capability to think clearly about some international issues. Hope to move on to more....

I too, like having Israel around. -even when we are not always straight with them (see Pollard case).  They are like our pitbull buddy in the mideast.




Explain how we aren't straight involving the case of an Israeli spy. He should be put to death.

It certainly wasn't meant as an attack, only further clarification for those who would use those events as fodder for dissing Israel.

I have thought long and hard about the Jonathan Pollard case and as I see it, I tend to be a Pollard sympathizer.  With our leadership and attitudes towards Israel changing every 4 or 8 years, it makes total sense for Israel to investigate our intelligence.  It's not like they were going to use it against us, more for their own long range planning.

That Pollard was sentenced to life in the federal pen is way out of line, and hard to figure.  US Code calls for a penalty of  2-4 years for passing classified infomation to an ally!  It would be interesting to hear the "whole story".

Personally I find Clinton's authorization of sale of guidance systems to Red China far more troubling, especially when their "campaign contributions" are added into the mix.

More like some git droppede a coke down on my keyboard!  Sorry peeps