Good article about Reagan, & no, it didn't come from democraticunderground.com......Not exactly moderate on social issues....

Also, there's airport named after him, don't think we need him on $10 bill or on dime either, IMO.....

FOX News can re-name their building in NYC the "Ronald Reagan Tower", if it already hasn't been done.....

Note: Link doesn't work, copy of story attached.....



Many Still Troubled by Reagan's Legacy
By BETH FOUHY=

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - As one of the first physicians to confront AIDS when it began its rampage through the gay community, Dr. Marcus Conant lobbied the Reagan administration in 1982 to launch an emergency campaign to educate Americans about the disease.

It took the president five more years to publicly mention the crisis. By then, almost 21,000 Americans had died and thousands more had been diagnosed. Conant, who lost scores of friends and patients to the disease, is still deeply angry - one of many Americans who view Reagan's legacy in a harsh light.

``Ronald Reagan and his administration could have made a substantial difference, but for ideological reasons, political reasons, moral reasons, they didn't do it,'' said the San Francisco dermatologist, who now deals with a new generation of AIDS patients. ``President Reagan and his administration committed a crime, not just a sin.''

Despite the accolades lavished upon Reagan since his death Saturday - for ending the Cold War, for restoring the nation's optimism - his many detractors remember him as a right-wing ideologue beholden to monied interests and insensitive to the needs of the most vulnerable Americans.

Bruce Cain, a political analyst at the University of California, Berkeley, said Reagan singularly brought conservatism into the mainstream during his presidency, an orthodoxy that has made Democrats and liberals an enduring minority in Washington.

``What made things worse for them is that he was an extremely influential figure, and his ideas had lasting impact,'' Cain said.

Elected on a promise to slash taxes and crack down on freeloading ``welfare queens,'' Reagan depicted government as wasteful and minimized its capacity to help people, ideas that survive today. Reagan also dealt a blow to organized labor by firing the striking air traffic controllers, and appointed Antonin Scalia, still the Supreme Court's most conservative jurist.

Reagan's weakening of the social safety net by dismantling longtime Democratic ``Great Society'' programs arguably vexes his critics the most. By persuading Congress to approve sweeping tax cuts for the wealthy while slashing welfare benefits and other social services like the federal housing assistance program, Reagan was blamed for a huge surge in the nation's poor and homeless population.

Many won't forget his administration's proposal to classify ketchup as a vegetable as a way of further reducing spending on federally subsidized school lunches.

``Ronald Reagan really was a modern day Robin Hood in reverse - he stole from the poor and gave to the rich,'' said Michael Stoops, a longtime advocate for the homeless in Washington.

Critics give Reagan grudging credit for his ability to connect with working-class voters, who would come to be known as Reagan Democrats. He also galvanized conservative Christians to participate in the political process - even while putting some of their more prized goals on the back burner, like restricting abortion rights or restoring prayer in public school.

But other activists point to Reagan's early silence on the AIDS crisis as doing the bidding of the far right, with devastating results.

In San Francisco, the number of AIDS cases peaked during the Reagan administration. AIDS activist Rene Durazzo remembers it as a frightening time when ``chronic death'' seemed to pervade the city streets.

``The number of people dying was horrific. The disease was very visible - people were suffering and wasting,'' Durazzo said. ``It was a very volatile environment, there was so much anger at the government for not paying attention.''

In the end, critics say Reagan's enduring legacy may be the generation of Republican leaders - including former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, House Majority Leader Tom Delay, and to some extent George W. Bush - who came of age during his presidency and have pursued a conservative social agenda with even greater gusto. That, in turn, helped create the bitterly divided political environment that exists to this day.

``The tone has gotten more venomous, largely because of the people who came after Reagan and carried the Reagan banner,'' said Roger Hickey, co-director of Campaign for America's Future, a liberal advocacy group. ``I give him full credit for unleashing the vast right-wing conspiracy.''



-- Modified on 6/9/2004 11:15:31 AM

It is also a fact that the Gay community is SF was told that a major source for the spread of the disease was through the bath houses. When the facts were presented to the Gay community, they adamantly opposed closing the bath houses.

BTW, I could care less if someone is gay, that is their personal business (before anyone accuses me of gay bashing). But personal responsibility should be practiced by everyone. You can bitch about AIDS research, but you know what they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Peggy Noonan!

And the link does work.

C. Everett Koop was specifically told that he could NOT promote information that would allow Gays to act responsibly.  Such as communication of the fact that using Condoms would be safer than not using them.

There are many folks that died for lack of that information on HOW they could act responsibly in the early 1980s.

Actually & this really doesn't pertain to the AIDS issue, but this paragraph was the most troubling:

"In the end, critics say Reagan's enduring legacy may be the generation of Republican leaders - including former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, House Majority Leader Tom Delay, and to some extent George W. Bush - who came of age during his presidency and have pursued a conservative social agenda with even greater gusto. That, in turn, helped create the bitterly divided political environment that exists to this day".




-- Modified on 6/9/2004 6:32:14 PM

-- Modified on 6/9/2004 6:33:20 PM

Bribri-

Peggy Noonan has a brain.  This is true.

It's just filled with untruths and inaccurracies, and generally used to peddle already discredited theory to readers with little knowledge of reality.  We often use the term shill.

I'm more eager to read the thoughts of thhose I RESPECT on this topic.  The Economist will be fun to read- I expect a Warts and all series of articles.

I voted for him Twice.  I have regetted the second vote all my life.

Friends from South and Central America died and were tortured.  Friends who were Gay died.  The rich got obscenely rich.  Moral stands turned out to be hollow and I lost most respect I once had for America.

Glad guys like you feel proud.  At least you enjoy the  moral bankruptcy your boy unleashed.  Someone has to...

Holy smokes, what a bunch of whining.  More people die each year from:  smoking, auto crashes, cancer, etc. and the trend has not turned for those.  Now it's officially Ron's fault that HE didn't tell they gays that getting ass fucked by 10-20 guys a week in a bathhouse might not be such a good idea? For Christ's sake, think about it

And I'm sure you don't give a shit but AIDS is devastating Africa.  

If you could stop worrying about Christ's sake and think about other people that may actually please Christ (I'm sure he's in good hands anyway).

Do you think that AIDS may not have been given much importance because it was considered a Gay disease ?  Of course, who cares about the Fags - it must be Gods punishment.  Well, apparently God has no prejudice.

So, Dr. Conant labels Reagan a criminal for not stopping the spread of AIDS by launching a massive education campaign.  What did we actually know for sure about AIDS in 1982?  Would the bathhouses voluntarily shut down because Ronald Reagan said non-stop anonymous sex is bad for you?  Was the Federal government the only entity able to do something?  In 1982, what did the Governor of the biggest state in the Union do to educate the Gay community?  The Governor that had been elected for that term by the largest majority in that States' history?  Is former Governor Moonbeam carrying the responsibility for thousands of deaths?  

By the way, for all of the $$ going to Africa to fight this disease, are you aware how much of it is American vs German, French or any other country?  You bring this up like it is also Reagan's (or perhaps, my) fault.

uhh,I think if I assumed all the Gays were white guys, and I said "gay white guys getting ass fucked" and I was a black guy or vice versa, you might put a racist connection to it, but I think what you may have wanted to say was "homophobic" and I'm not.

-- Modified on 6/9/2004 9:07:23 PM

I should have used the word PREJUDICE
n.  unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.  I used the wrong word that was too confining.  Prejudice is the right word for your post.

With all the money that has now been pumped into AIDS related crap, what benefit has been derived?

Geez.....let me see......Uh......if you use a condom, that reduces the chances of infection? Hell, it's been a known fact that STD transmission is reduced by condom usage for years.

Or are you insinuating that there was some predominant attitude that gays were immune to STD's before AIDS?

Last I heard, AIDS/HIV infections were on the rise again.

Besides, don't you think if they had started researching heavily, the results would probably have lead activists to brand Reagan as homophobic ANYWAY?

Actually, I don't know about the financial statistics but I'm sure that much of the $$ is coming from the US - Much to your chagrin I'm also sure.

I didn't say it was Reagans fault or yours (I'm assuming you didn't partake in those ``fudge packing'' ceremonies you alluded to).  What I mean is - unless the religious right can save a Fag they couldn't care less.

And, what was thought about AIDS in 1982 (by your Hero and kind) is that it was a Gay disease.  Now, I forget ... just what are the views of the religious right towards Gays ?

BTW, I bet he would have spent a shit load on Alzheimers research though.

of HIV/AIDS and in areas such as DRAMATICALLY reducing the rates of perinatal infection (transmission of mother to child).  

Or, is what Reagan is branded of the most importance to you.  

BTW, I've attached a link so that you may have an additional source to hear from besides ... dare I say ... WhoeverIsSpeakingTheWordOfTheLord this week.

Nope, I think the brush you try to paint me with is still "homophobic" which I am still not.  After all, I have two relatives (wife's side) that smoke the pipe and we get along quite well.  Been on several hunting trips w/one of them actually.  Not field stomping for birds either, mule packs @ 12,000 ft. (not the place you would go w/someone you didn't trust or get along with).  The other one is total fairy and would rather shop and "doo" his hair or nails.

 Would have you preferred rather than "ass fucked" I would have stated "men receiving erect private parts in their backdoor private spots?"  Is that more politically correct?  The point is still the same.  There was a tremendous amount of unsafe activity back then and a violent horrid virus emerged in large part because of this activity.  

 I should have known saying anything in defense of a conservative or anything against the lifestyle choices of 2 decades ago in San Fran (or Minneapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City or any other metro area) by the homosexual community would get an immediate flaming.  Hell, saying anything about the gay community if you are not gay is a risk in itself.  BTW, Fag was your contribution to the dialogue, not mine.  Oh, and "smoke the pipe" is my hunting buddy's term.  For a ^&#@ fruit, he's got a hell of sense of humor! Oh, and that's my line to him occasionally.

 Granted, hinsight is absolutely accurate, but do you really think it required an edict from the Federal government for people to alter their activity?

Explain exactly, without insulting people and their religious beliefs, what significant benefit are you claiming Reagan denied.

As I indicated, there has been no cure found. They identified ASPECTS of the virus, including transmission methods.

But then again, practicing safe sex would have helped just as well. It's not like condoms weren't available.

And the recent HIV outbreaks in the adult film industry dhow that even today, with all this research adn knowledge, the disease is still trasnmitted.

I think your AIDS-Regan connection is just liberal BS to try and tarnish peoples' opinions.

umm, maybe someone else can jump in that is more informed on Alzheimers but I think I read an aricle earlier this evening noting the irony that Nancy Reagan still supports a ban on stem cell research...the leading opportunity to find a cure for Alzheimers and other debillitating (sp?) diseases.  As far as religion is concerned, I don't think I was making a point other than simply closing a quick typed response of my .02 with "Christ's sake, think about it".  Was it because I used a capital "C" in Christ?  I think you need to sit back a bit and settle down.  And my chagrin about pumping the dough into Africa?  Not hardly, I think we can do a lot, but I think there are many countries (and peoples) in the world pointing the finger at us yet do nothing or very little themselves.

It's just a bunch of biographical facts spiced with praise, a standard obituary approach, really.

Perhaps when she pretends to give Reagan's opinion of intellectuals (never quoting him directly or indirectly) and calls them "high-IQ dimwits," is that what you think is brainy?  If so, a school-yard heckler is an intellectual giant by your standards.

/Zin

perhaps you could be more consistent with thoughtful posts. Not that I always am (or ever for that matter) but your last one appears to have come from James86 himself.

Not finding a cure and ``waste of time'' are not in the same galaxy.  There is no cure for Cancer but many people are treated with great success - with AIDS too nowadays (though not to the extent as Cancer patients)

With regard to the Reagan connection - it is a Religion vs Gay connection (in the 80's wasn't it viewed as a Gay disease by just about everyone - and still today, by some ?).  I feel your last post demonstrates this quite well (Religion vs Gay).

I'm still not sure my treating HIV/AIDS patients ``benefit'' was so convincing to you.  Well, by understanding the disease (studying ~ treating) perhaps someday there will be a cure.  And hey, maybe help some people out in the meantime ... Naaaaa.

does not convey to me that you ``think about it''.  Or at least thought about it during the writting of that post (and the ``case closed'' was a bit obnoxious - SnowBoy is that you ?).

But of course that's just my .02.

BTW, I don't believe stem cell research was an option in the 80's.  My unsympathetic remark concerning Ronnies Alzheimers was w.r.t. his general support of research for the disease had he known.

Anyways, I apologize for confusing you with the religious right crowd.

I'll be the first to admit that AIDS research was not high on Reagens list, but I would like to see some proof about this last comment.

You guys all need to read "And the Band Played On".  It's a really good book that targets all sides of the mess of the early 80's.  Yes, the Reagan administration could have done more.  But let's be real here people, there was a lot of blame to go around.  

The gay community, especially in SF, got violent towards anyone who suggested that their lifestyle habits were potentially dangerous.  The religious right ... well we all know what their response was and how categorically ridiculous it made them sound.  The Reagan administration largely ignored it as a disease among deviant portions of society -- not just gays, but IV drug users as well.  Even the medical community was pretty stupid about the whole thing.  Sexual activity was not then and is not now the only way the disease is transmitted.  Remember Arthur Ashe?  He was one of many who got the disease through a blood transfusion, largely because of the ineptness and incompetence of medical officials who in many cases preceded the Reagan admin. and in some cases are still around making decisions that affect the lives of you and I.  

The current problems that this country and others have with AIDS cannot and should not be blamed on a single individual.  Syphilis, gonnorhea, chlamydia ... all were STD's that were known about and studied well before the advent of AIDS.  People knew then that these diseases could be prevented with condom use.  They made choices not to use condoms.  Even after it became established that AIDS was a sexually transmitted disease, many people, both gay and straight, made choices to ignore the warnings about the disease and continue making lifestyle choices that were inherently dangerous (i.e. failure to use condoms EVERY time).  People continue to make this mistake, including people in industries that should know better (i.e. the porn industry). Furthermore, people made choices to share needles, despite warnings well before the time of AIDS that doing so was inherently dangerous.  

In my estimation, an educational campaign to promote condom usage would have saved thousands of lives, so on that note I agree with the idea that Reagan should shoulder some blame.  But beyond that, I don't think he should get all, or even most, of the blame.

but to paraphrase Wesley Pruden, if Reagan is responsible for 10 million cases of AIDS, that makes him the studliest guy in the bathhouse.

Wow- aren't you a paragon of forward thinking....

to ignore a threat that we discuss almost everyday now?  He tried to pretend it did not exist, and that Gays were somehow responsible for it.

Sure unprotected sex with multpiple partners helped to spread it fast, but no efforts from the admin to face the problem was worse.  When a country that bills itself as the "best in the world" does less than most bankrupt african countries on any world crisis- you begin to see why the resto f the world see the US as "all hat and no cattle" .  We often talk like we care, or we are on top of a situation, but we are usually totally self centered- failing to deal with any situation until we are hurt ourselves.

I could and do, just as easily say "Do you think we can get help from the Europeans in Iraq and the "War On Terror" when we spit in their face about the Kyoto accords and the World Court?"  

But I suppose you would immediately come to the conclusion Bush is a stupid Fag, so it would have been wasted.

Rose and Milton Friedman Senior Fellow
The Hoover Institution
Stanford University

He didn't work for Reagan and his competence is questioned by only the Southern Democrats of the KKK.

It appears from your reviews that you either live in LA, spend a lot of time there or have some connection.  Please describe to me the both successful and unsuccessful actions of then Governor Jerry Brown (Born in San Fran) to either educate the masses or halt the spread.  Please explain his action regarding gaining federal assistance with this.  Granted, AIDS is not geographically exclusive to San Fran or for that matter, California, however this whole dialogue began with my opinionated response to a San Fransisco Doctor's blaming the epidemic on Ronald Reagan and his supposed lack of compassion/action/funding/sympathy whatever.  

 You conclude that the administration doing nothing to curb the behavior of responsible adults was worse that the behavior of responsible adults.  That is an interesting position to say the least.  Don't you see anything wrong at all with your statement?

 Please don't ramble on, rather bring in some actual, factual debate.  I have been discussing the actions of the past and have come nowhere near discussing any ideas for dealing with this or any other issues today or in the future.    What I would love to see is someone in the know, who could add to this to just see how much $$ has been pumped into research over the last 20 years though.

 I would suppose that you believe Reagan himself put the handcuffs on the FDA forcing it to grind like a slow train in testing new drugs for this disease.  

 And if you don't think you are capable of babble, please re-read your post and explain how you think I would come up with "Bush as a Fag" and what exactly would have been "wasted".  What's wasted anyhow? The screen space, my time, your time, electricity, thought, brainpower????  And why must those that debate me keep using the word "Fag".  And I am the one accused of as insensitive!

 The Kyoto Accords:  The agreement that Clinton/Gore wanted to sign and Bush/Cheney said "no way".  Well, I haven't read it, have you?  I understand that the administrations position is that it is a bad deal for the U.S.A.  Greenpeace, Sierra Club and Ted Danson say it is a great deal.  Until the document is in my hand, I am going to take W's word for the fact it's something we do not want to sign.  Until you have read it, please don't jump up and down about how crucial it is to our survival.  Yes, I saw "Day After Tommorrow" with my 12 y.o. son and we both agreed that other than some decent special f/x, the movie was crap.  When I have more time, I will put my knowledge and experience of living where water freezes every year up for debate against what happens in a few hours/days in this movie.

   After reading your post for about the 5th time trying to figure out exactly what you are attempting to say, my brain started to hurt.  COUNT TO 10, COLLECT YOUR THOUGHTS...THEN START TYPING.  When you are finished, please read your message and if needed, make the required changes so that it will make sense to someone who doesn't have your brain in their head.

he could have done something, anything, research, education funds he would not bennifit by doing that. it is scary when you see a provider here and then find out she has been reviewed by someone who visit trannys.

Well....

don't I feel chastised!!!

I dont think the Gummint ought to restrain behaviour.  But to admit that there was an epidemic going on?  Pretty basic.  Did not happen for years.  

Perhaps Randy Shilts' book And the Band played On might do a better job of informing you about Ronnie pops' obliviousness (is that a word?) to the issue.  I don't think actually that there was that much they could have done, nor that the outbreak was plague-like in its threat.  But NO recognition that all was not well in Denmark?   Weak.

The Govt. thus avoided any actions.  Simply informing the public and making it A priority (not nec. THE priority, I understand how small the numbers were on a national scale) would have been a way to demonstrate some concern for citizens dying in droves.  The CDC was essentially told to stop making such a fuss and to make to with the paltry funding they already had. And so it took longer to figure out what activity WAS spreading the virus, or whether a virus was to blame (are you listening Mr. Mbeki?) {Probably not on this board}

When compared to the Reagans' action regarding Alzheimers, the issue is more clear cut and diffreneces marked.  Suddenly the Man and his wife were mobilizing any resources they could to deal with their issue.

While I do understand that Alzheimers probably effects way more folks than Aids, and that their own behaviour is less of a factor in its occurence, it can make one wish ronnie had placed one too many Haitians on his dance card, just to see the struggle from the other side.  

But by then I guess he was too involved trying to prop up the Hussein Govt or funding the massacres of civilians in Central America, or Negotiating with Terrorists, or running out of Beirut, or generally trying to elbow his friends up to the Govt trough to care for some sick people.

You may deconstruct and fire at will, I can take the abuse.  

the KKK of the 40's,50's and early 60's became the Southern Republicans of the KKK after the Civil Rights Bill of 1964.

 After the civil war, the south was strongly Democratic because of hatred of the Republican victors(Lincoln's party) and carpetbaggers.  This changed dramatically after the passage of the Civil Rights Bill, pushed thru congress by Lyndon Johnson
and northern Democrats.  An early predecessor of this transition was Strom Thurman, who started as a Democrat, Became a Dixiecrat to run for president in 1948, and shortly thereafter switched to being a Republican.

 Starting with the 68 election, Republican "code words" started to pander to southern Democrats who felt that the Civil
Rights Bill, pushed thru by Johnson,had disenfranchised and abandoned their wing of the party.  Today, that Republican pandering has extended to religious right also.

...in say a space of a year or two, and showed no signs of subsiding?  Then to have Reagan pretend it's not happening?

"What a bunch of whiners.  They can't even buy repellent and mosquito nets?" is that the way you'd justify it?

It's not a matter of telling the gays this or that, it's a matter of mobilizing the federal government.  The only reason he didn't do it was because his politically disfavored were disproprotionally  suffering and dying. It was, at the same time, both a slap in the face to the gays and an effort at social engineering.

This is Reagan's legacy: he put a gentle voice and a pleasant face to mass cruelty in the way that Richard Nixon could have never done.  His presidency may well have been a turning point, to where the world stopped fearing the Soviet Union, and started to fear the U.S.

Yes, he brought about some good things-- by accident.  One of them was C. Everett Coop.

/Zin

Without Republican support the Civil Rights Acts of the mid sixties would have failed!  Johnson or not!

In 1976 Jimmah Carter carried the south, over ten years after the passage of the CRA's!

The reason the Southern States have become more conservative is that the democratic party has forsaken the core values of the southern people.  End of story.

They also have a down home, natural ability to see through bullshit (read Kerry)!  Example of that ability was the inability of Gore to carry his home state in 2000.

It seems that you didn't take the time to read Thomas Sowell's article, it is because he is black?  Or because he is a black conservative (i.e. Uncle Tom, you might be interested to know that he was once a Black Panther member)?

THE KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION
NATIONAL SYMPOSIUM: U.S. AIDS POLICY-ENTERING THE THIRD DECADE
---------------------------------------------------------------
OPENING SESSION
JUNE 5, 2001
WASHINGTON, DC

DR. C. EVERETT KOOP:  . . . by August of 1981, we learned from CDC that there had been 108 cases reported of HIV and 43 of those had already died. I was not yet the Surgeon General and all through that summer of '81, I was preoccupied by my long struggle for confirmation. But I certainly did realize if ever there was a challenge for a Surgeon General, it was a disease we called AIDS/HIV.  [[[ But for some reason, due to intradepartmental politics that I still cannot truly understand or explain to you, I was cut off from AIDS discussions and statements over the next five years. ]]] But I did have a very definite impression about what was going on on Pennsylvania Avenue. Domestic policy folks in the White House isolated Ronald Reagan from the whole subject of AIDS. [[[ And because transmission of AIDS was understood primarily in the homosexual population and in those who abused intravenous drugs, the advisors to the President, took the stand, they are only getting what they justly deserve. ]]]  And the domestic policy people, as well as the majority of the President’s cabinet, did not see any need to come to grips with AIDS, or indeed to have a governmental policy towards this disease . . . As a result, the first public health priority and that is to stop further transmission of the virus, became needlessly mired in homosexual politics of the early 1980’s. In 1985, there was the death of Rock Hudson, a movie star, the first national figure to die of AIDS. And this at least got the attention of the White House. Also in 1985, we had a test for the first time to identify the presence of antibodies to the HIV and we couldn’t see the virus, but we first at last saw its footprint . . . In the last year of Mr. Reagan’s first term, many of his appointees began to move into the private sector into high paying jobs and a number of others returned to what they were doing in 1980. And the result was that by filling a vacuum, I became by no act or decree, the government’s spokesperson on AIDS. . . The official response to AIDS, as far as our government was concerned, hinged on two meetings of the Cabinet. The first was just before the AIDS report was released by me to the public. And the second was in May of 1987, a meeting of the entire Cabinet with the President. In each of these meetings, I had to skate on rather thin ice and do it fast because [[[ I had to get by political appointees who placed conservative ideology above saving lives ]]] . . . And one little known fact of history is that it was brought to my attention several days later that the Cabinet members were loath to discuss my report and [[[ condoms ]]] in the presence of the only female member of the Domestic Policy Council, which was Mrs. Dole. This was obviously in the pre-viagra days {Funny Guy }. . . In the meantime, having failed to come to grips with the AIDS report when they first read it, [[[ the political meddlers in the White House tried to bottle up the report ]]] and then, in an unusual move, two White House members of the Domestic Policy Council came across town to see me and wondered if it wasn’t time to update the report. It was only three weeks old. And I said it didn’t need updating then and I can tell you it doesn’t really, except for medications need updating now. But it was very clear that [[[ they wanted four words removed from a government publication: penis, vagina, rectum and condom ]]] and, of course, I refused.
---------------------------------------------------------------

[[[ Highlights Ponits Snowman39 wanted Proof of ]]]

P.S. learn how to spell REAGAN . . . DOH ! ! !

Note - while I may not blame President Reagan PERSONALLY for this issue, he is ultimately responsible for those he appointed to work under him, and therefore his ADMINISTRATION is guilty of this.


-- Modified on 6/11/2004 11:44:22 PM

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=18251

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Dick_Cheney_Abortion.htm