Back when Trump was all about Repealing the ACA (Obamacare), I asked those who agreed on repeal to name the 5 worst things about the ACA that they would want to change. There were no replies. It might have been "Premiums are too low." OK, let's negotiate changing the premiums to lower the gov costs. It might have been "Too many people still can't get coverage." OK, let's negotiate a fix about that. And so on. The ACA can be modified without being obliterated. But Trump's sole goal was to undermine many things accomplished under prior administrations -- and never acknowledging ANY common ground.
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(And just to point it out again, the motto was "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" even though there was NEVER any plan to replace it. 100% of the effort was focused on Repeal, 0% on replace. Suppose there had been even a small effort to change the one, two, or three major items considered to be wrong or bad with the ACA. It never happened.)
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(The list of "No Common Ground" enforced under Trump is a long one: No judicial appointments allowed; etc..)
These message boards mirror the national conversation. It seems like those on the left will support and stand up for anything the left supports and oppose anything that the left opposes---ESPECIALLY when it comes to anything Trump related. Conversely, those on the right will support and stand up for anything the right supports and oppose anything the right opposes. And whenever the two sides get into conversation invariably insults and a "my big brother can beat up your big brother" 3rd grade recess mentality takes over!
Will there EVER be a point where ANY kind of common ground is reached--or will this polarization and manner of "conversation" between the two sides go on this way interminably?
When I say support--I mean both sides support their stances without ANY shades of grey, nuance or middle ground---ALL or NOTHING!!
if you think the left never criticisms itself. If you had read more carefully, you'd have seen some of us criticize Biden and the Dems failure to get their BBB program through Congress before the election. You'd have seen us criticize CRT, "defund the police," and Antifa, among other leftist trends.
How did you miss that? Perhaps because you're an orthodox righty?
This is PRECISELY what I'm talking about---I'm being labeled an "orthodox righty" and here come the insults flying back and forth!! It really is sad that it always seems to deteriorate to grade school recess taunts!!-The ability to have a political conversation where both sides can at least show a TRACE of civility and find a TRACE of mutual ground seems to be gone forever!! And that damages ALL of us!!
Back when Trump was all about Repealing the ACA (Obamacare), I asked those who agreed on repeal to name the 5 worst things about the ACA that they would want to change. There were no replies. It might have been "Premiums are too low." OK, let's negotiate changing the premiums to lower the gov costs. It might have been "Too many people still can't get coverage." OK, let's negotiate a fix about that. And so on. The ACA can be modified without being obliterated. But Trump's sole goal was to undermine many things accomplished under prior administrations -- and never acknowledging ANY common ground.
.
(And just to point it out again, the motto was "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" even though there was NEVER any plan to replace it. 100% of the effort was focused on Repeal, 0% on replace. Suppose there had been even a small effort to change the one, two, or three major items considered to be wrong or bad with the ACA. It never happened.)
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(The list of "No Common Ground" enforced under Trump is a long one: No judicial appointments allowed; etc..)
Laffy--you absolutely have, without question--the most severe case of TDS on the planet!! Literally your very EXISTENCE is posting on these boards ripping him every chance you get!!
There are areas of common ground, and numerous examples of both sides here being critical of “their own side”, but it gets drowned out by the tribalized name-calling that the discussions here inevitably sink too.
On the Left, you’ll find Nicky, Happy & others admit to Dem faults, but they also won’t step back from clashes that get personal.
You find the same on the right. Willing to be self-critical but not averse to a street fight either. Willy is a good example of this. He’ll present well researched arguments, but then finish with an often bombastic conclusion. This triggers lefties like Laffy and BigPapsan, who focus on the bombast and ignore the factual arguments presented.
Which leads us to the elephant in the room, Laffy. One of the earliest “polls” conducted here at the P&R forum was looking to find who the biggest spammer here was. There was a character, long forgotten, who literally posted gibberish here. He was in the running, but at the end of the day Laffy was certified as the board’s biggest spammer. A quick look at TER posting history shows that Laffy has kept up that spam energy over a long period of time. He skews the tenor of the board, disregarding actual statements and opinions and instead imprinting his personal delusions that all conservatives are Nazi’s. Most recently this is exposed in discussions centering around the riot on Capitol Hill. Although every conservative here denounced the violence that occurred the day of the protest, Laffy will continue to insist that conservatives here are Nazi’s who supported it. This delusion spills into any conversation on any topic, especially when his argument or position on the topic at hand crumbles. At that point, he’ll change the topic to the riot, and accuse anyone pointing out the weaknesses in his initial argument as Nazi’s, throwing in as many obscene homophobic insults as he can while he’s at it.
At the end of the day, I think this forum will continue to be a place where honest debate does occur, but it more often than not will be tinged with animosity fueled tribalism.
There are areas of common ground, and numerous examples of both sides here being critical of “their own side”, but it gets drowned out by the tribalized name-calling that the discussions here inevitably sink too.
On the Left, you’ll find Nicky, Happy & others admit to Dem faults, but they also won’t step back from clashes that get personal.
You find the same on the right. Willing to be self-critical but not averse to a street fight either. Willy is a good example of this. He’ll present well researched arguments, but then finish with an often bombastic conclusion. This triggers lefties like Laffy and BigPapsan, who focus on the bombast and ignore the factual arguments presented.
Which leads us to the elephant in the room, Laffy. One of the earliest “polls” conducted here at the P&R forum was looking to find who the biggest spammer here was. There was a character, long forgotten, who literally posted gibberish here. He was in the running, but at the end of the day Laffy was certified as the board’s biggest spammer. A quick look at TER posting history shows that Laffy has kept up that spam energy over a long period of time. He skews the tenor of the board, disregarding actual statements and opinions and instead imprinting his personal delusions that all conservatives are Nazi’s. Most recently this is exposed in discussions centering around the riot on Capitol Hill. Although every conservative here denounced the violence that occurred the day of the protest, Laffy will continue to insist that conservatives here are Nazi’s who supported it. This delusion spills into any conversation on any topic, especially when his argument or position on the topic at hand crumbles. At that point, he’ll change the topic to the riot, and accuse anyone pointing out the weaknesses in his initial argument as Nazi’s, throwing in as many obscene homophobic insults as he can while he’s at it.
At the end of the day, I think this forum will continue to be a place where honest debate does occur, but it more often than not will be tinged with animosity fueled tribalism.
I don't get the animosity here at times. Some of it is hot takes, and I get that, and other times it seems highly personal and vindictive. I wish Laffy toned down the Nazi remarks, and others of that ilk, but it does seem to me you are calling him out as a troll. If that is the case, why not just ignore him? He is annoying at times granted, lol, but he also brings many topics to this board that may not be normally mentioned and he always has a unique take, whether I agree with him or not. He also has the balls to regularly call out liberals/progressives/Democrats who act and talk like crazed radicals, which I believe hurt our party's electoral chances, so I give him credit there as well.
Sorry but there's alot of political hatred now. I tell people that right now, at this very minute this country couldn't band together if we had another 9/11 attack. The blame game would ensue before the last fire is out.
I saw this build up back when Obama first got elected. I had stocks in Bank Of America (BOA). I use to go to Yahoo Finance to see how it was going. I went into the message and the hatred of Obama was everywhere, N- word this, Monkey there...conversation that had nothing to do with the stock.... I knew this was the beginning of tribalism.
So this board reflects the pulse of the nations,, although in no comparison to the Yahoo board.