As I've stated before I have problems with many of McCain's policies but I was inspired by his acceptance speech.  An incredibly harrowing and inspiring book.  This is not your typical ghost written bullshit memoir. I don't care how far to the left you are, if you read this book objectively you will admire this man.

-- Modified on 9/8/2008 8:16:02 PM

admired.  Both BO and JM overcame and prevailed over circumstances that would indeed paralyze and destroy most of us.  Each is exceptional in his or her own way.

The process takes that genuine raw materail - and packages it - such that the genuine article is very difficult to see.  And that makes the decision hard -

We need to listen to what they will do - on key issues... and to my way of thinking there are many non-issues that special interest groups wish to focus the election on.... and that is a shame - for both our candidates.

-- Modified on 9/9/2008 8:26:54 AM

I find myself in TOTAL AGREEMENT with you on your analysis ...

I'm a bottom line guy --- It all boils down to this: "We need to listen to what they will do - on key issues"

What circumstances has Obama overcome, "that would paralyze and destroy most of us?" I don't recall anything that he has gone through that would paralyze or destroy a person. WTF My  life has been harder than his and I'm not complaining, except for the fact that he wants to confiscate the fruit of my decades of hard work.

"the fruit of [your] decades of hard work" are going bye-bye no matter who takes charge ... wake up to reality ... the deficit is spiralling out of control, Social Security is almost bankrupt, infrastructure (built by the FDR admnistration) is crumbling, schools are underfunded, healthcare costs are out of control, we are in 2 wars without a defined endng, Fannie Mae Freddie Mac, etc etc.

Republican, Democrat, no matter ... the tab will be due soon ... your piggy bank looks like a good place to start.




-- Modified on 9/9/2008 9:15:30 AM

a difficult position to find oneself.  He overcame a mom who shuttled him around while seeking "a man"!  He overcame the temptation to descend into a world of drugs and violence... read the book.

Thoughout he outlines the when he made decisions, and how he came to conclusions... sure, maybe you did have a harder life, I cannot speak to your life, but I know that MANY are not as successful as you...  heck, just look at the stats for household income - and then look at the stats for the average TER member....  most of the population of the US makes far less that us....  

Obama could have been just another "victim of society" dependant upon the state for everything.... he choose to not become that, but he also chose to not go into a private law practice (guess what a graduating Harvard Law Grad is offered) and make a ton of money, instead focusing on a life of public service...   as I say, a lot to admire, but that is NOT why I would vote for a president.  Heck, I admire many people who should NEVER be president.  

the very same obstacles that millions of others have also overcome without the fanfare. He did not overcome abject poverty, he was never put in a cage for years, he was never even put in harms way, he received a first class education. I don't see a thing in his life that would elevate his "hardships" to the level of paralyzing or destroying someone. OTOH There are countless millions of people that have had it much rougher than Obama.

I don't feel that my life has been all that hard, but I too am of mixed race and I also came from a "broken home" BOO HOO poor little ole me. Bullshit, life happens, his "hardships are far from extraordinary"

McCain OTOH has gone through some shit that I have no idea whether or not I could get through. I am not saying that his hardships make him uniquely qualified to be POTUS, but to say his hardships could paralyze or destroy a lesser man is at least an accurate statement.

Recently there was a post that sought to downgrade McCain's hardships because hundreds of others had endured the same hardships. How does that compare to Obama's "hardships" that literaly millions of other Americans have also endured, the comparison is night and day.

you people focus on trivial matters  ... it is not who "overcame" what that matters ... overcoming a cage or a tough upbringing doesn't make you the better leader.

Reagan was one of our greatest leaders ... I don't recall him getting into office on some sob stories...


-- Modified on 9/9/2008 11:45:20 AM

because I just said the same thing in my previous post. It wasn't me that made a big deal out of Obama's "overcoming of obstacles that would parlyze or destroy most of us" I just pointed out that Obama has lived a pretty easy life so far,and his obstacles were rather tame in comparison to millions of other Americans

I don't recall any of our recent Presidents  having terribly difficult childhoods, or adulthoods for that matter. Just keep in mind however, I was not the one who brought up the issue, nor do I think it is germain to the larger issue of who should be POTUS

you are correct, I did respond to the wrong poster & I do agree with your point.

But I stand behind the essence of what I said.

so do I. lol

I don't want to elect a POTUS because he is black, or because he was a war hero, or any other bullshit reason that has nothing to do with his fitness for office. On that at least, it appears we are in complete agreement.

He did not overcome what millions of other have.  

A few have overcome similar circumstances.

The millions of others that have endured the same circumstances have failed to overcome.  

Many have endured to become productive members of society.  Many others have endured to become unproductive members of society.  

Few become members of the most powerful ruling class in America.  

Few have obtained 2 Ivy League diplomas.  

None other has become the first black editor of Harvard Law Review.  

Few have become professors at a top ten law school.

The list of accomplishments is long.  I ask you why you have chosen to ignore them.

IMHO, you are certainly ignorant and may also be bigoted.

I agree with you. I find much to respect in both men, and in both VP candidates. All four have, what I heard but can't remember who said it, "compelling narratives." To discount or demean them does not help the voter determine the best person to be president. All it serves to do, possibly, is to reduce one's belief as to whether s/he will deliver on his/her promises. But, as such, it does not give a true picture of the candidate's true intentions or veracity.

I see you're learning how to dish out insults, unfortunatley your actual argumetn lacks merit.

I was responding to a post that said he overcame obstacles that would "paralyze or destroy most of us". That statement is patently untrue. I stand behind my statement and you apparently agreed with me because you said and I quote

"Many have endured to become productive members of society"

If many endured to become productive members of society, how does that reconcile with Bizzy statement that it would paralyze or destroy most of us?

In regards to his list of accomplishments, we weren't discussing his accomplishments we were discussing the magnitude of his obstacles, just because you want to make it relevant to a discussion you want to have on another completely different subject does not make it germain to the conversation I was having with someone else.

In my opinion, you have rapidly made the change from opioniated newbie to downright asshole. How's that for a personal attack. and yes I am bigoted, I don't like stupid people.

I was one of the few willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I now defer to those that rightly pegged you as an asshole from the start.

To answer your questions.  Many of those who are productive members of society (i.e., tax paying non-criminals) have had their lives destroyed by the obstacles facing them.  They did not live up to their potential.

Obama's accomplishments are relevant to show how he has overcome those obstacles.  They speak to the magnitude of his achievement.

... and hell ya I have no problem showing hostility.  I can dish it out too.  If you don't like it, then treat me and my words with the same respect that I showed you when I first arrived on the board.

-- Modified on 9/9/2008 3:28:57 PM

Thank you for your thoughts.  IMHO, they are right on point.

I guess you are another one of those libs who think that any criticism of Obama is racially motivated.

Having overcome virtually all the same obstacles that Obama has, and without the benefit of an Ivy League education I can say there are many, many people who have overcome the very same obstacles you try to claim are unique to him.

If you start showing the same respect that I showed you, I will return the favor. Just remember you threw the first insult. I'll treat you however you treat me.

One should also ask themselves if they believe that their guy has the integrity to actually follow through once elected. That also includes doing the right thing in circumstances unforeseen.

-- Modified on 9/9/2008 5:45:18 PM