Just thought I'd let you know.-----

At least OH60  was articulate in his position, and didn't need to resort to  "quintesential morons" to prove he has no debate skills.
 In other words, where's your substance?

Lastly, IOW, what's your real handle behind that
"chickenshit alias" "outspoken tough guy" ?!---------LMAO !

This is Politics and Religion Board.
OH60 had four posts on the same subject {Religion} however different topics.

Historical references outside the Bible of Jesus' existence, morals outside of man, should religion die if man outgrows it, and a heretical poem.
 
OH60 words exceeded TER maximum for one post.
Everyone's idea of spam, or grasping for straws, is not the same.
Non political movie reviews on  P@R and repetitive  banal insults, are my idea of a champion spam master.

I understand there's also some chicken in that can, which should go well with your alias----

One can't debate "ridiculous clowns" like F_U & Holey
"Priapus53,Lastly, IOW, what's your real handle behind that
"chickenshit alias" "outspoken tough guy"


Just because you can't, doesn't mean others will fail.
 Nothing tough about me except my skin and endurance.
IOW, I never become weary flushing  shit,
or mopping dirt.
Alias was not intended to mislead my TER identity. Only to make a point, to those that grasp the obvious.
 sqaeolsdanau
   

I have a personal dilemma, and if you're concerned with the state of the individual's freedom, it should be yours too. Let's say the powers that be decided that religion was bad, how do you go about enforcing what's good for people without infringing upon their freedom of belief and their consequent freedom to express that belief? Some say the answer is to ridicule religion out of existence, but I'm not so sure I agree with that, fun though it may be. From what I've seen, the more you ridicule, the more the ridiculous people's f-ed up belief systems get. For example, when you point out the facts of evolutionary science, the fundies will tell you it's all part of a Luciferian (Satanic) conspiracy. When you point out other things that are obvious, they revert back to the old, "You're a reprobate and lack the spiritual powers of discernment". Ughh! What do you do? What can you do, especially since many of these inmates are running the asylum?

                                          Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins believe that in order for mankind to survive, religion must go and refer to liberals and moderates as "enablers", allowing for dangerous fundy beliefs to flourish and propagate, but is this necessarily true? To me, that's like calling a responsible gun owner an enabler of criminals or a responsible pet owner an enabler of animal overpopulation. Here's what I think may be some guides to future actions that may help without infringing upon people's freedoms.

                                           Make churches more accountable for their tax free status. I mean how these fundy idiots got up the 27 million bucks to fund a museum of lunacy is beyond me. Perhaps if the government was a little more astringent on who they give a 501-C3 to, maybe it might spawn a little fiscal responsibility. If a church is offering things like shelter and a soup kitchen for the indigent, then yes, they deserve some tax exemptions, but a recording studio, an Escalade for the pastor and a sanctuary that covers 5 city blocks??? C'mon! You're obviously raking in the bucks, cough up some of that cash, reverend! Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, he didn't drive a Hummer.

                                           Keep the fundies out of the public school system. You have to watch these idiots. They'll sneak scripture reading and prayer in ways that would astound a CIA or NSA spy. I have a fundy relative that's a teacher and she's finally decided that she'll go into the mission fields in Africa, which is great news for this side of the pond, but when she taught public school, she would do things like during the time they outlawed prayer in favor of a moment of silence. would say things like, "This is your time, boys and girls, to reflect on what YOU think is important. What I like to do during this time is to pray to God for a good day and be thankful for what Jesus has done in my life." She was skirting right on the edge of the law, but not quite breaking it and since she was teaching in the Bible Belt, she got away with it. These are the Godzombies you have to watch out for, the ones with just enough intelligence and education to make them dangerous.

                                               Put liberal and moderate theologians right on the front line. Put them in the Southern Baptist Convention, among other fundy organizations, in fact there are some there and they've made attempts at things like attempting to re interpret scripture to curb the misogyny and homophobia and have been met with hateful resistance, but not without some little bit of progress. Before we get discouraged, we need to remember that this action is like cutting down a redwood with a pocket knife. We can't expect a breakthrough overnight.

                                               Feel free to add suggestions if you like, but remember the goal here is not to infringe upon anyone's freedom or constitutional rights. I don;t think another amendment or change in the law is necessary, just vigilance from those concerned and education.

                                               Personally I would like to see a future where one could keep the trappings of their traditional family faiths if they wish as well as the labels of Baptist, Methodist, whatever, without the madness of stupid doctrines and insane theologies. Religion has morphed and changed throughout the centuries and will continue to do so, yet I don't think it's going to die, or really should as some people need it to keep their lives together which brings me to another step in this platform. Let's offer them a better alternative. Any suggestions?

                                       

And stupid premise! Religion will die to the degree that mankind outgrows it. Oh, wait! You're talking about "the powers that be" determining that. Who are these powers that be? Oh, never mind! You just wanted to rant against the fundies. Go right ahead!
Be my guest!

I eat out on Sunday nights.  I like to have a margarita with my steak.  Although I am in a college liberal town, in the bible belt.  you should see the looks of judgement I get while sipping  my margarita.  Religion is so hypercritical and a turn off for me.  It is BIG business.  I believe in God, a divine order to things.  I believe in loving people and trying to find the good in everyone.  And I know karma takes care of all.  We get back only what we give.  And with the economy so bad, and I own a "legit" business with paying taxes and licences fees.  I have ran into every scam with bad checks, people not doing what they say they will do, thieves, people wanting something for nothing, people that want to sue, etc.  I see karma working just fine.  We attract back with astounding accurancy what we give to others.  The Law of Attraction is a great alternative to religion.  Every single time I have been robbed by the person I have helped, I see a bigger blessing coming to me.  My religious friends like to throw out verses to hurt people, that is not love my friends.  Thanks, Madison

and he'll be glad to help you with your spelling.

    I thought this was a very thoughtful and sometimes insightful post if a bit philosophical for us.

Agree with your Tax observation. There should not be blanket Tax exemption, it should be based on the type of work they do. Why did you stop at Hummer, there is preacher in Atlanta, who owns something like 12 Rolls Royces. His defense that the church owns it and gives to him for his use. How about that?

As long as people are stupid enough to listen to some idiot and giving him/her their hard earned money, a government scared to face reality and politicians capitalizing religion, there is no hope of anything changing anytime soon or in our life times.

Just happens to be historical fact that emperors and kings used religion to control the masses, and religious leaders used religion to control kings and emperors. The only difference today is that, the same so called religious nut jobs are using it control the dimwit politicians.

Just out of curiosity, if a candidate declares that he is atheist, how votes would he get?

is being grateful for what you have, then you are ready to receive more.  it is treating others with respect, dignity and integrity and not forgetting the people that helped you.  it is not being greedy, but having healthy boundaries of not being taken advantage of either.  when we are wronged and can forgive and release the person to their highest good, we will see karma take place but shouldn't boast but ask for mercy knowing we need mercy too with our lessons.  thats all.

when I realized what a terrible concept this was, here is why.

You said...

"how do you go about enforcing what's good for people"

Who gets to decide what is "good foe people".
The framers had it right, but should have slightly modifed the wording.

Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness and screw anybody who interferes with it.

I don't need the promise of a reward to motivate me into doing the right thing with people. Karma is just another way to manipulate stupid, greedy people into acting responsibly with the promise of a reward for acting "good" and a punishment for doing "evil"

I find no more credibility for "Karma" than I do any other fairy tale designed to influence the behavior of the masses. What's wrong with just doing right by your fellow man because it's the right and honorable thing to do?

But I will give you credit in one regard, your and other's belief in Karma has no negative impact on the rest of us. I only wish the same could be said about organized religion.