Last night I had a wide ranging conversation with a liberal family member and picked up some clues.

You think WalMart is evil and Saddam Hussein wasn't.

You want businesses taxed into the Stone Age and think it's just a coincidence that you feed in the public trough.

You are against the death penalty and for partial birth abortion.

You think Laura Ingraham is evil and the 9/11 guys had a legitimate beef.

That's just a few of one Beantown liberal's views. There are a lot of these folks loose around here.

PS-She thinks she is a moderate. If she wasn't my sister...................

http://www.liberalparty.org/JFKLPAcceptance.html

Was JFK sincere...can anyone else ever be in this day and age? Standing for something as a symbol of hope?

Apropos line at the end of speech? Or not?

"Some pundits sre saying it's 1928 all over again, I say its 1932 all over again. I say this is the great opportunity ofthat we will have in our time to move our people and this country and the people of the free world beyond the new frontiers of the 1960's." Can we substitute the current year?

He did stand up to Krushchev in'62

> You think WalMart is evil and Saddam Hussein wasn't.

I do not think WalMart is evil.  I think that they are very successful company that should be praised for their business sense.  Saddam was evil, but not as evil as other dictators are.   Darfur is much worse than Iraq ever was, but since there is no oil there, nor did their leader plot to kill Dubya's "Daddy", there is no reason to attack.

>You want businesses taxed into the Stone Age and think it's just a coincidence that you feed in the public trough.

Talk about feeding the public trough.  McCain has pretty much fed from it for his life.  He was in the military, and now is in politics.

>You are against the death penalty and for partial birth abortion.

It all boils down to the belief that life begins at birth.  I belief life begins when the kids are old enough to move out!

>You think Laura Ingraham is evil and the 9/11 guys had a legitimate beef.

Laura is not evil, but her views are so far out of the mainstream she deserves to be ignored.  The 9/11 hijackers were totally evil.  What they did was wrong no matter who they were trying to attack.  Laura OTOH has never resulted in anybody being harmed, just alot of upset stomachs from listening to her.

>That's just a few of one Beantown liberal's views. There are a lot of these folks loose around here.

Being from the Boston area, I have never met anybody with the views you are describing, but I guess there are "wingnuts" on both sides of the spectrum.

>PS-She thinks she is a moderate. If she wasn't my sister...................

I must say that if she thinks she is moderate, then I would like to see those who are more "left" of herself.

"feeding from the public trough?" Obviously, you've never served, otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to make such a ridiculous statement!!!

McCain being in the military was not "feeding from the public trough," any more than a firefighter is feeding from the public trough.  They are working for it.

In any event, JFK would be rather conservative today.  He favored across the board tax cuts, believing that cutting all taxes, even the higher income levels, stimulate the economy, increase tax revenues, and are good for everyone.

He favored a strong military, and would have been shocked at the reasoning that Iraq "costs to much."  (I am not addressing whether it was a correct decision to go in, only the argument that it is not worth it once we are there.) JFK would have paid any price, bore any burden, or meet any hardship, to use his words, to assure the sucess of liberty.

He firmly believed in strong weapons systemsenemies. “For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.”

Finally, the left today wants the government to provide "free" health care, cover college tuition, pay off their bad mortgages, provide day care, and a host of other services which people want the goverment to give them.  Every liberal solution, for better or worse, involves the government doing something for the people.  I remember in the last election one of the canditates (I forget which one) being asked by a woman in the audience, "What will your administratino do for me."  

The JFK response would have been to tell her to ask not what the government would do for her, but what she would do for the government.  

Every time Obama promises the government will something for people, JFK rolls over one more time.


Finally, standing up to the Soviets was hardly what the liberals of today (or then) would do.  That would be considered to be confrontational.

Indeed, even at that time, the liberals of that era took the view that we have bases in Turkey, so there is no reason why we can forbid the USSR from having a presence in Cuba.  (That was the line of the liberal groups like "Fair Play For Cuba Committee.)  Standing up to Russia was what the conservatives of the era favored.




-- Modified on 8/13/2008 8:43:58 AM

like did he mean the 1932 of the alphabet soup of government work programs?  or did he mean the 1932 of folks "asking not of their govenment?" and doing "stuff" to help the govenment... which part of that speech do ya mean?

There is also the current debate about what pulled the economy out of the great depression - the socialist programs of FDR - or WWII?  Well, we've tons more government socialist programs that then.... so...???   substitute the current year for all I care.... want a program to help?

Free college - that is right - everyone who is qualified can go... with the BILLIONS that universities get from Federal and State sources, with their tax exempt status and with their endowment income.... well... it just seems that they too should put shoulder to the wheel, and provide payback to the citizenry of the country... don't cha think?

Sound liberal to you?  me neither.

Conveniently folks forget just how firm J & R FK were with respect to a strong military - AND defense.  They were also not quite the social engineers that some libs would like to paint... it took an LBJ to push civil rights legislation... but hey, lets just rewrite history.... that's ok.

WRT free or taxpayer paid college tuition... me? Personally, we already fund most colleges with grants and such....   why do they charge outrageous tuitions?  especially when they are tax exempt.  my thought, if they do not either eliminate or lower to 1950 costs tuition (they can charge for room and board) and admit all who are qualified... then they have to pay their fair share of taxes on income - and redistribute those specific taxes to students to help offset the cost of tuition...

That should just be mandatory - talk about suck at the public tit.... try sucking with a T-38 strapped to your but... with full afterburner on..... yea.  sucking wind is all you're gonna do.

if you think the military is, as you put it, "feeding (sic) in the public trough".  I spent 8 years in the Army when I could have been making twice what I made the the Army, as a civilian.  Was I dumb? I don't think so. I felt that it was important to give back to a country that has given me so much.  Have someone shoot at your ass with a RPG and tell me if it's worth $4,000 a month?

Also, don't forget that the military doesn't start wars, politicians do.  We only have to fight and die.

And just for the record... the military is made up of Republicans, Democrats and Independents.

whites, and blacks, and Christians, and Jews, and Muslims, and atheists!
jhb

which is why i rarely discuss politics with my family, but stick to doing impersonations of varios pols while lampooning them whem i'm in character.

The problem starts in pre-school.  Even if undergraduate school was free it wouldn’t benefit all the young people who spent their formative years in substandard schools. With very few exceptions, this country has really dropped he ball when it comes to primary school education.  A tuition free Columbia University wouldn’t help the kid from PS143 in Harlem.  The more we invest in education today the less we’ll have to spend for law enforcement tomorrow. The children of today can turn out to be either productive tax paying citizens of tomorrow, who will support us in our old age, or criminals who will be a drain on the system. I would rather invest in schools than in prisons.

Powell went to public schools, then to CCNY, very cost efficient means of getting educated....& achieved quite a lot. Perhaps there's more to achievement than education, and that character has a great deal to do with it....

Quite simply put, if I am a young kid in middle school - harlem of Beverly hills - matters not and I see that tuition is roughly $14,000 for a STATE non-elite school - and I am currently LIVING On $14000 a year... guess what.... I have neither hope nor aspirations of going to college - therefore where is the incentive of doing well in school????

We have a two-tier caste system - college-educated - and non-college-educated.....The earning potential for a college grad is over $1,000,000 more than a high school grad over their lifetime and average annual salary for a college graduate is $45,400 vs $25,900 for a high school graduate.

But if you need the $14,000/ yr as the entry fee.... and cannot see how to get it, well, you are doomed to the latter....

In other words, in days past, the keeper of the "good life" was the king - who appointed the knights, dukes and so forth and so on as well as parentage... today, the keeper of the "good life" is all to often the financial assistance officer at the local U.  ME?   I am a highly conservative republican.... and what do I want? Democratization of education - as I stated - free to ALL WHO QUALIFY based upon their intelligence and without respect to their ability to pay.  That is the ONE thing the communists got right... smart kids were selected at an early age - and promoted through the educational system.  That still leaves room for an individual to succeed without the benefit of the educational approval "stamp," but opens the door to assist people of lesser financial resources.

Remember, 50 years ago - you needed at least a high school education to get a good job... today - the minimum is a BS.  and it is rapidly becoming the MS or MBA or higher.

figure it out.

college education... as I say, there is room for many paths to a successful life and career under our system of democracy - but !!! more and more - the educational "Stamp of Approval" is the ticket giver.

Speaking of characters... GW - went to frickin Yale and Harvard for the love of Pete.... and noone would espouse the notion that he is particularly bright... (well, except maybe lindbaugh and Hannity)

First...I think what you are saying is some form of economic affirmative action vs what we have today. I  would prefer dismantling the current race based system for a system that provides economic assistance assuming you qualify and get a degree. If not, then you must reimburse the state. This would not apply to private schools.

What state are you referring to that is $14K per year? Altho I would love for every kid to have the full college experience, i.e. move away from home, live on campus, etc., that is just not realistic. I live in California and the in-state tuition is $3800 per year, plus add another $1K for books. I am referring to the California State University system, not the UC school system, i.e. UCLA, UC Berkley,etc. One of the major expenses to a college education are the living expenses, i.e. dorm, apartment, etc.

Another option is for the kid to attend a community college for the first 2 years thereby reducing the total cost.

Trust me, it can be done. I did it back in the 1970s. Community college, state school, full-time job, night classes, live at home, you name it.

But the range is from your "low" to the $14,000 - with the average being $6-7K for a STATE university....

I did not include living expenses for a simple reason - you have those in any case - whether you go to college or not.

As far as how to pay for it...?  ME???  The good ole USAF - and NEVER did i regret it.

AND FOR THE RECORD - Private schools receive more that 1/2 their funding from Federal and state sources - GRANTS AND CONTRACTS - and the overhead which ranges form about 48% to 60% for most grants....

get real - we pay these folks - we pay them plenty - through our tax dollars - whether they be public or private... lets be clear about who is on the public dole... it ain't industry - and it sure as heck is not the military...

Ever see a university pay property or income taxes?  no - you won't - and for the record I am all for Religions paying the same.  That is - everyone uses the services- everyone pays.

That simple enough?  should be!

-- Modified on 8/13/2008 1:24:37 PM

And we all got along pretty darn well.

Because the mission always came first!!!!
jhb

had the better club.

Walmart DOES do bad things and Saddam Hussein was evil.

I just want business taxed at all.  68% of American businesses paid no corporate income tax at all n 2007.  I benefit from public services, but fortunately I pay taxes to help pay for them.

I'm against the death penalty because it is not a deterrent and there is too much room for error.  I'm for all types of abortion, not just one particular method.   6,000,000,000 plus people on the planet and most too stupid to be allowed to pass on their genes.

Laura Ingraham is just pointless and moronic.  She doesn't rate evil.  The 9/11 guys were very, very bad men.

I'm a Theodore Roosevelt republican.  When the current republicans start thinking instead of praying, I'll be on board.

those who had your immunization records (otherwise known as shot cards), and those who kept up your pay records.
jhb

universities receive 1/2 funding from govt. I look at Stanford, USC and other Calif based private universities, and they generate their revenue thru $40K a year tuition, large endowments, and the investment gains from those endowments. Show me and I'll stand down.

As I said earlier, I am OK with a form of economic assistance beyond what is available today, i.e. scholarships, grants, loans, etc. Considering how much we pay in taxes for our secondary schools, and all we get is a 40% drop-out rate, I would want to ensure tough controls are put in place to ensure I/WE get something for the investment. I've given up on our large school districts performing above the bare minimum, and more money won't fix that problem.

running expenses...   Stanford gets over $300,000,000 in direct costs from the NIH alone - let alone the $150million overhead....  that does not include - NSF ($91M committed), DRPA, and all other federal funding sources...  All on their web sites.... and do not kid yourself - there is a hefty bit of cash that comes in from the state to Stanford...

wrt the endowments...   and capital gains on the investments...etc... they should be taxed on the gains just as everyone else is.. Stanford is a company that provides a service... education.

as for fixing elementary and high school... you cannot fix those institutions UNTIL and UNLESS you fix their labor supply - you know that folks that teach teachers.... upper education... the Universities.... plain and simple -

Tough controls?  get rid of unions... and make it mandatory that good teachers get rewarded and bad teachers get fired.  but till you fix the upper educational system... that just will not happen.

Quit living in the makebelieve world that tuition pays anything but a small percentage of what it takes to run Stanford...  otherwise you will look as smart as that fellow at Harvard who turned away the Stanford family....

p.s. I also think you're wrong equating military service with the public trough.

Just for you information since you are a clueless Bostonian:

You said:
Darfur is much worse than Iraq ever was, but since there is no oil there, nor did their leader plot to kill Dubya's "Daddy", there is no reason to attack.

------
Sudan has oil, a lot of untapped oil.  THat is why the Chinese keep us from doing anything in the UN.  Though what I have read lately the chinese are starting to put some pressure on the leader of Sudan to clean up there act.

check out: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htm

Saddam killed on average of 30,000 of his own people a year for the 30+years he was in power, he started 2 wars with his neighbors and used WMD on his own people. Do not try to re-write history...

You said:
Being from the Boston area, I have never met anybody with the views you are describing, but I guess there are "wingnuts" on both sides of the spectrum.

----
I am from Boston, and there are a lot of wingnut  lemmings here, just look at the idiots they vote for ever time....I will be glad when I can leave this state and go to a place where people are informed and sane....

When I was in the Navy, my family and I qualified for foodstamps, based on our income. However, because we had no car payment (60 Rambler at the time), and no furniture payments, neither of which we could afford, we were disqualified. What a catch-22. I guess, if we had qualified, we could have been accused of doubly "feeding (sic) in the public trough." Hah!

-- Modified on 8/13/2008 6:15:10 PM

there are only a small number that rely primarily on grants -- which are both public and private. And these are the large research universities. Stanfords are the exceptions, not the rule.

You seem to be acting as if the only purpose of a university is to teach classes. Not so. Especially for the research universities. Education includes research, not just teaching. Grants are primarily, almost exclusively, for research purposes. Its only occasionally that grants are given for teaching innovations.

As to your earlier contention that universities should admit all qualified students, that makes no sense at all. First off, physical space constraints limit how many students can be in a given classroom, or in the dorms. Too many students, and they won't be able to get enough courses because they have all filled. Why admit a student if you won't be able to ensure class space for them? And even before the last seat is filled, there is strong diminishing returns to class size. The bigger the class, generally the worse the education. That is why people pay such a premium for the small liberal arts colleges where class sizes will be very small.

$14,000/year.....In New Jersey, that's only about $1,000 more than the average cost spent on public school kids in grades K-12.

Damn straight. Even had officers sneaking into our club at RAF Woodbridge, UK. 25 cent beer, 50 cent mixed drinks---with slot machines and poker games in the back room, and the British girls lovin' the yanks, what a life.

There are so many grants and scholarships, with maybe a handful of exceptions, every kid who gets the grade can go to college, and the expense is already paid.  

I take courses for fun at a local community college, which is cheap to start with.  If people can't afford that, there are grants, wiavers, scholarships.  

At the end of each year, they have to advertise to give more away because if they don't use what they were given, they get cut back the amount they didn't need, so the school goes asking for people to ask for more money.

There is no need to create a new program at the cost of billions.

Also, I am friends with many teachers in L.A.  If you factor in the fact that they only work 9 months a year, they are not paid that much less than attorneys working for the state.

The big problem in education is not money.  Places like Columbus have increased the amount the spend under court order and have gotten very little success.

The big problem in kids creating disturbances in class, coming to school in gang clothes, and all that stuff.

There is a school in NY which went from one of the 10% worst to one of the best with no more money.  Only a change in attitude by the principle and a change in enforcing rules relating to behavior.  And there are other schools with the same success stories.

Also, if Hussein did try to kill one of our former presidents that would be a fine reason to go after him, regardless whose father he was.

I've seen so many military families suffer while their loved one serves.  

-- Modified on 8/14/2008 12:56:29 PM

First, they are subsidized through tax exemption - both on property and income (tuition, grants, contracts and many other sources of income - including alumni giving, income on endowments etc.)....  

Second, they ALL have income from Federal and state grants and funding.... no matter how private.... and no matter how small....  In short - they are in fact subsidized... heavily.  And even IF your assertion were true... that would mean that smaller colleges should charge more - not always true.  There is an uneveness associated with university tuition that further supports my assertions...

Next - as to my demand that all be offered a college education to at least the BS level...  that is in our NATIONAL INTEREST - no more, ,no less... however, your assertion that there is not enough space... baloney- I was talking with a middle school administrator last night... she brought up the interesting point - have YOU been on a college campus lately?  we are unable to fill the slots with American students.... many- are foreign......   simply because they will pay to go to an American University -

And I stated clearly - QUALIFIED!  A couple of years ago, I participated in a program where I taught inner city kids a lesson in entrepreneurship... and starting a company... as a final exercise - they had to write a business plan... they did - I had it judged by a technical expert and a businessman in that particular commercial space... both judged the concept to be sound and the business to be viable... when I went back to the group... and suggested that they attend college- as this was proof that they were bright and should continue - their comment was... we cannot - we just do not have the $$$....   I reviewed their grades... they were ok... in short, bright kids, qualified kids... but no one was gonna foot the bill.... oh, and the racial mix... one white, two black and two with parentage from latin america....

sad -

premium colleges could still have higher standards... but my goal would be a higher education for more than are getting it now...

I've taught in college... at the undergrad, grad and post-doctoral level... smallest class size... the one-on-one with a grad student... or post - doc... largest- 100 or so nursing students.... and by the way, average class size in the basic science classes in Medical Schools is about 40-60 or so.  Think that too large????

remember - MOST learning takes place outside the class room - where the student, going over his/her notes - gets it.  Which is why when I taught... and the poor student would come to me and say "I don't get it" I would ask, so how many times have you gone over the subject matter...  often - the answer was NOT EVEN ONCE....

SOOOO puhleeese.... Spare me your whining about the poor poor poor Universities.  they are shitholes of irresponsible behavior.  But hey, you go right ahead...   I've written numerous times in this forum about rape, drugging and muder by faculty from Ivy league schools...  and no read ZERO apology from the institutions where these events occured - and were committed by their faculty and staff - and in most instances on their own campuses.  

Defend away.  they are bloated backward institutions that have not fundamentally changed in over 1600 years.

One of the things that i've noticed is the very angry tone used in most rap music... facing a 6 foot 170 pound 16 yr old who is on the football team can be intimidating... especially if you know that if you discipline him, his parents will be the first to call for your dismissal...

I am a refreshing breath of air to my kids' schools.  I take the teacher's side.  With almost no questions asked.

I have not had to do this a lot - but what is refreshing is the respect I get from the school.... and guess what, my kids grades and performance on standardized tests goes right through the roof when it does happen...

more money does not guarantee results... parental involment does.  (and that does not mean automatically backing the kid)

Most importantly, you refuse to come into any airport bathroom stall with me!!

All you damned liberals prefer memebers of the opposite sex unlike us conservatives who prefer members of our own sex.

People who listen to them, agree with them, and believe in them are _________?

Neither Right nor Left. Agree with both on some issues and disagree with both on other issues.

We need a viable third party. We have become a limited democracy ruled by Mut and Mutt.

Why can't we ever find a third party candidate other than the lunatic bunch like Bob Barr and such.

Kruscheve chewed and spit JFK out during their first meeting which consequently led to the crisis. What option did have? Luckily the Russian ships didn't cross the blockade.

JFK also got into Bay of Pigs, no too smart. Lack of experience. But got better with time, was my hero.

The number of small colleges far exceed the number of huge research universities. Its not even close. Do a little research.

The notion that a college is "subsidized" by not having to pay taxes as a non-profit does not mean they are not primarily tuition-driven. There is this thing called "proportions". Several school have had to close because of lack of tuition revenue, and others have the BULK of their operating expenses covered through tuition (even if less than 100%). That too is a fact.

You ask "have YOU been on a college campus lately? "
Gee, let's see. Umm, does YESTERDAY count as lately? Since that is where my office is, I'm on campus way the fuck more often than you are these days. And have been for years. Any other "what could you possibly know about college" snarky questions?

Congrats on talking to an administrator. Shame it wasn't on point. I never said there wasn't space for current enrollments. Not all students currently get admitted. Get it? Under your plan, where any school has to let in each and every qualified student, there would be no space at particular schools. Under your plan, no qualified student can be turned away. You don't think then there will be an avalanche of qualified students applying to a small number of particular schools where they know they can not get turned down. Do you understand the concept of distribution? And if you don't believe there is a difference between teaching 60-100 students in a course at once, versus teaching 10 at once, then stick to distance-learning.

Kudos on your entreprenership program. Maybe it helped out those kids. But it has zilch to do with my post.

Just like "I've written numerous times in this forum about rape, drugging and muder by faculty from Ivy league schools"
My apologies that you can't stay on topic.

"Defend away.  they are bloated backward institutions that have not fundamentally changed in over 1600 years."
Sigh. How you contradict yourself. If it were true, then A) this is way higher education has always worked. So how can it be a problem now all of a sudden and B) that goes against your mantra that institutions of higher ed have been hijacked in recent years by socialists. After all, nothing has changed in 1600 years.

But what do I know? I'm just a RWSA employed at a socialist institution.

Personally, I'm glad you got out of the higher ed business. Less destruction you can do on this board than when you have a captive audience of 18 year olds who haven't yet been taught critical thinking skills.

For the past 8 or so years, I have been working with colleges and universities - on a number or programs... what I find is that faculty are undisciplined and unaccountable...  the often cheat - even in their research... and listing their accomplishments...  

And you CAN teach a class of 60 or so.... Medical schools do it all the time.

Academic institutions Have NOT changed in 1600 years.... they have ALWAYS sucked at the public trough...  and as far a destructive to the students I taught... all of my pre-veterinary students.... and all of my pre-med students - were admitted into professional schools... (ya know - Harvard med... Tufts Veterinary.... places like that).... (probably written more letters of recomendation than I would wish to admit)....

by the way.... I do not think that universities are hijacked by socialists... never said that - I believe that they are staffed by elitist snobs who actually believe that they are above society... lest that is the way they act.

There is a need - AND an ability to put more kids into the higher educational venues - particularly minorities... and US citizens...  yea... I am somewhat concerned that we offer prime slots to foreign students simply 'cause they've money.

WRT space being an issue....   it isn't....  as stated, QUALIFIED by intellectual ability - NOT financial ability.  That would mean higher standards... but that would also necessitate the identification of other types of education for those who would not be college bound...  The world and skills necessary to operate in it are changing...

Example - I am aware of a program that teaches QUALIFIED High school kids the skills necessary to become a laboratory technician - qualified to perform some molecular biology assays, biochemical assays, simple animal surgery etc... it is a 2 year program - taught at an academic institution... paid for by industry... and a state grant.... the "Graduates" of the program are guaranteed a JOB at the successful completion of the program... Happily I've had a hand in the program....  Useful skills...

unhappily - the program is small - and received NO - ZERO support from the university admin... so it was discontinued...  it wasn't up to their "Academic Standards" - even though graduates of it got a job....   ever try to employ a graduate with a degree in archiology....???   not many openings.

You're too much in the system to see just how poor it is.... why do you suppose that companies - such as the University of Phoenix - offer a college education - for approximately the cost of a high end state school...  AND MAKE A FRICKIN PROFIT???  and THEY PAY FRICKIN taxes...  how is that.

The data are just now being brought to the public's attention - when they finally get pissed off enough... they will make the storm the castle scene in Frankenstein look like a marshmallow roast.

As to staying on topic - my point through it all is that our higher academic institutions are corrupt and do not provide service to the public that funds and supports them for the price that is paid.

we were both on campus today. Meanwhile, I'm there from 3-5 days a week all year long. Are you? My reply was just responding to your attempt at a "I've been on a campus so I'm the expert and you haven't so you're not" brand of nonsense. I was just cutting off the foot you put in your mouth. But you certainly covered your bases. Before, you assumed I'm not on a campus so therefore I can't know anything; now its I'm there too much so I can't see past it.

You also seem to fall prey to what is known as the "fallacy of composition" -- assuming that what works for one must work for all
Sure, you can always come up with an example -
exceptions do exist - that doesn't mean it applies universally as you want it to.

Just because some medical program can handle 60 students at a time does not mean all can. Nor does it mean you want 60 students taking a course on Western Writers in the 20th Century. Sure you can physically do it (IF space permits) but it simply won't be the same as a smaller class which permits more writing assignments and discussion. This is basic education pedagogy. And again, space does not always permit.

I cannot understand why you fail to grasp this simple concept. If you require every school to admit every "qualified" student (no matter how defined), then some schools will simply not be able to handle their enrollments. The plan will simply not work. If you want to force schools to admit students on the basis of need-blind admissions, while still allowing them to decide how many to admit in total, that is a different story. But that's not what you said, or implied.

There would still be great difficulty, as some schools have large endowments and can handle this (indeed some Ivys are now doing exactly this in making tuition itself a sliding scale based on family income) while others cannot without huge direct subsidies. I'd be for that in general, although there are some issues. And don't forget that the wonderful current administration slashed funding for the Federal Pell Grant program. Public schools get funding from the state as well as tuition. Reduced tuition will simply require more funding from the legislature. So instead of users pay, its general taxpayers pay. If you believe in that sort of redistribution, fine. But the dollars have to come from somewhere, obviously.

As for,
"what I find is that faculty are undisciplined and unaccountable...  the often cheat - even in their research... and listing their accomplishments..."
again, its not on point, nor is it useful. You certainly like to paint broad strokes. Sort of like your silliness regarding Ivy faculty committing rape and murder as is that is in anyway common among the faculty. Ridiculous.

As to Univ of Phoenix, that is a total joke. So they make a profit, so what? So did the company who produced pet rocks and chia pets. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Are you really going to pretend that UP offers any kind of educational experience similar to actually ATTENDING a university? UP is primarily on-line distance learning. Hence, expenses are minimal (space constraints from actual buildings do not apply), as is the overall quality of education. They are most famous for their annoying pop-up ads and spam emails. That's hardly the sort of marketing I wish to encourage.

-- Modified on 8/15/2008 4:13:56 PM

"a course on Western Writers in the 20th Century" (certainly a critical JOB skill) can ONLY be done your way...  perhaps you would do well to adopt some of the techniques used in Medical schools....

As to writing assignments...   bub, let me tell ya, based on what I see as the writing ability of college grads...  even with your techniques - I have recommended to some college graduates that they sue the colleges that they attended.  Why? Because the diploma they received indicated that they received a degree that would ensure certain skill, and based upon their work performance, they obviously failed to receive.

Who do I work with?  the Ivy's, the State Us, and all inbetween - and I work at everything from the young instructors, to the Emiritus level, to the provost level....   Shocking is all I can say - at one point in time I admined a program across 10 separate universities...

I am a founding editor of one journal, a reviewer for another and I review for 2 separate federal agencies...  Yea, you're right, I have a pretty narrow view.

"a course on Western Writers in the 20th Century" (certainly a critical JOB skill)"

are you implying that the only purpose of a college course is to teach job skills? Then let's just send everyone to community college and mechanic school and be done with it.

"perhaps you would do well to adopt some of the techniques used in Medical schools...."

perhaps not. As a former educator, I'm a little surprised you don't know that medical schools require completion of an undergraduate degree. Ergo, they don't teach the same things as is taught in college. Those skills have to already be established before they get accepted. Or tell me I'm wrong, that medical schools teach courses in Western Civ, foreign languages, anthropology, astronomy or mutlivariate calculus. Or is it that in your mind any course that is not a direct prep for med school is a waste and should not be offered as part of an undergraduate education?

"I am a founding editor of one journal, a reviewer for another and I review for 2 separate federal agencies..."
so now you want to start a new pissing contest? Well guess what, you lose again. First off, none of this has ANYTHING to do with teaching undergraduates. I'm sure whatever journal you founded was not an education journal. And that you are a reviewer for only one journal says quite a lot as to what the profession thinks of your abilities. Apparently you are being ignored.
I'm asked to review for at least 5 different journals each year, sometimes multiple times from the same journal. There are others who do even more than that. And yes, I've reviewed for federal, as well as private grant proposals, book proposals, including textbooks, and chapter reviews. (I no longer do the latter because the compensation is not high enough.) And I'm co-editor of an international journal, have been guest editor of a special issue at a relatively prestigious journal, and have edited my own books.  But so what? Other than you trying to do a "one-up" and failing, what does any of this have to do with undergraduate instruction?

Its time to open your mouth and rotate your feet.

And you've never explained how under your plan you can squeeze additional bodies into classrooms beyond the number of seats the rooms will physically hold (even aside from obvious loss in quality of instruction that you want to dismiss). What does an Adelphi that normally admits only a few hundred students now do when faced with a thousand or more "qualified" applicants that you would force them to admit them all?

Bitch all you want about how horrible you think is the state of undergraduate education in the US but come up with a new plan for improvement. Your plan of forcing every school to admit any and all "qualified" students that apply is just plain dumb and totally infeasible.

-- Modified on 8/17/2008 7:23:53 AM

But for Democrats, the preference is corruption and taking bribes

BTW, ever heard of Barney Frank or James McGreevey?

Barney Frank or James McGreevey?  Yes, I know them well, but absolutely no one can take it up the ass like a good Republicon!!