Stilltryin, are you kidding. Putting me in the same breath as these very powerful leaders? I am a pee-on compared to these men.

You like to say how dangerous I could become. I assume it's because of my anti Israel stance, and my outright criticism of our leaders who seem to be pushing American policy into keeping Israel safe.

Let me ask you something, and this is for everyone at TER;
I have been saying for some time that EVERYTHING we are doing in this “war on terror”, or “the fight for freedom” is for the benefit of Israel.
I posted an article that quotes Anthony Zinni stating that we never had to invade Iraq.  He seems to think that we went ahead anyways because of certain people’s wishes.

Now, I would think that these certain ethnic\religious peoples wishes-who ignore our military leaders, ignore the fact that this un-needed war is costing the U S taxpayer billions, wasting young AMERICAN LIVES, are the dangerous people, not Funtime69.

I would think people who are lying to the American public about Iraq’s “so called imminent threat” to get the public behind this illegal war are dangerous.
I would think that the people who are shoving through the Patriot Act and the Patriot Act 2, that allow illegal sneak and peak at your computer, your phone records are dangerous.

That calls a group of 3 or more who dissent with what our government is doing “illegal gathering” which is defined as terrorism and the punishment for this is to be swept off to Cuba with no attorney contact.

They say that it is meant to curb terror. I say Bullshit…If you want to curb terror in this country, the first thing you do is secure the border. If our border lets in 4-5 million illegal people a year, what is to stop a terrorist with a vile of anthrax or sirin nerve gas that could fit into a small jar from crossing? They are smuggling drugs, guns and people across that border, why not a terrorist?

Now I think that our leaders aren’t concerned about the border because there is really no terrorist threat. They know that this war is to make Israel safe, not to stop terrorism from happening again on our shores.

They make these Patriot Act laws so they can put away their own American Citizens who disagree with what these ethnic\religious leaders of our country are doing.

It sounds very Orwellian to me

SO Stilltryin and others, I ask you; who is the real danger to America? That certain group of neocons who are concerned about Israel first, America 2nd  and her citizens last, or Funtime69 who loves his country; America, and knows exactly what these cretins are doing and is only trying to make people aware of it?

Some here call you a crackpot and other such names.  I have admitted that you are very intelligent and this post that you just made, in my opinion, proves me 100% right.  I will never consider you a crackpot, but I stick with my characterization of you as dangerous and evil.  
    Maybe you are a peon and maybe you do have no capacity to cause havoc to society.  But I have never met you, so I do not know whether you are some old fart who will croak in two years or some hale 35 year-old who has many years to horn his message of havoc and work toward end goals that will lead to the destruction of some members of humanity.
    You must understand that Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden and Saddam were all followers of some other leaders before they became figure heads of evil.  So you may be some, to use one of your words and some of mine, peon foot soldier who has no influence.  But who is to say what you will be one day, assuming that you are not some old fart who is about to face the Grim Reaper?
    As I said, there are some who call you a crackpot, a nutcase, a loonie.  Me?  I think that you are an evil genius.  Why?  Because you take everyday concerns that all of us have and bend them into concerns that buttress what I feel are your evil intentions.  Who among us want to get killed by some terrorist who infiltrates our borders among the illegals who only want to enjoy the relative economic and political freedom that we have?  Who among us want our government, or any government, listening in on our most private conversations or accessing our most personal information?  Who among us have not been in a store or bank or even our once monolithic neigborhood and cannot understand the foreign tongues being spoken by the majority of the people around us?  Who among us are not concerned about the waste of our brave young?
    But where you differ from all of us who have the everyday concerns that I listed above, is that you seek to harvest from the uncertainty that dwells in the grey pools of doubt that exist in all of our minds.  You take words and ideas that challenge your thoughts and you work to bend their force into positions that allow you to demonize the targets of your hatred.  You seek to convince those who may feel somewhat overwhelmed by all the challenges that you post on - you work to take that small pool of doubt and turn it into infettered support for your vision of a "perfect" society.  And if you are patient enough, cunning enough and determined enough, you will turn some of those people. So where are you any different from facists, who did the same thing, or from terrorists, who also use the same tactics?
    You actively conform and mask your attacks against your target groups as information or ideas are posted that successfully challenge your assertions.  When I actively challenged you over the last few days concerning your anti-semitic posts, you countered by asking whether I was a Jew, as if my being one would negate the validity of my challenge to you.  When you found out that I have deep roots in christianity that are as deep or deeper than yours, you posted in fashion that would play on any anti-jewish kernel that I would have in me as a consequence of my roots.  
    You analyze and research, you conform, you deflect, you deform, you play on small fissures that exist between fair minded people.  You are patient and you are determined and intelligent, with a savvy dose of cunning thrown in for good measure.  And you sir, share every single one of those traits with Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden, Saddam, Stalin and an endless array of other people who have destroyed large numbers of human beings.
    You complain about the anti-freedom nature of the Patriot Act and the proposed update to that Act.  But I am sure that if you took ultimate power tomorrow, you would not hesitate one second to have your minions eavesdrop on all private communication and stomp out any opposition to your policies in the most violent of ways.  

-- Modified on 7/9/2004 6:21:49 PM

You complain about the anti-freedom nature of the Patriot Act and the proposed update to that Act.  But I am sure that if you took ultimate power tomorrow, you would not hesitate one second to have your minions eavesdrop on all private communication and stomp out any opposition to your policies in the most violent of ways


Oh stop with the drivel already. I wouldn't eavesdrop on anyone.

I would deport 15-20 million illegals.

I would deport the ethnic\religious group who have highjacked the country. It isn't just the AIPAC lobby that is the problem. It is all the 230 different jewish lobbies that control this country. I assume that most of the jews in the U.S. make up these different lobbies, all 230 of them, that all work cohesively to strengthen the position of Israel, a foreign country.

I hate to sound similar to Shrub's "your with us or against us" line, but, your actions are either for America, or for another country. It's as simple as that.

Jewish lobbies have repeatedly shown that their hearts are loyal to Israel by actively procurring funds, military equipment, pressuring future politicians into bending over backward in support of that nation.

If you love and support Israel so much, move there! America has given Israel TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS since Israel's inception. They have enough to make it work.

Again, either your for America, or your not. If not, get the fuck out!! That goes for Israel supporters and illegals and legals who support Mexico over America!

Stilltryin, your 100% wrong that I would stomp out any critics or opposition. Thats something that the ethnic\religious group is trying to do. They are feverishly working on the passage of hate crime laws for anyone who speaks out against their policies. That sounds like "stomping out"!!!

How this ethnic\religious group differs from me is; I have righteousness on my side. I don't need to censor or stomp out people who disagree with me, because my arguements can stand in the open marketplace of ideas. They have truth behind them. I don't need to create legislation to combat critism of my actions via "hate speech laws". I don't need to slander my opposition with words like "anti-semite", just for disagreeing. It is obvious that I care about America. It is doubtful at best, that the ethnic\religious group and their lobbies have America's best interests at heart. I am confident that the American public wants leaders that care about them before Israel.

So, there you have it. I won't stomp out my critics, instead, I ask them to "bring it on". why? because I am confident that the American public will side with truth and love for my country over deception, greed, and the corrosive way of the minions of Israel.

Stilltryin, I am confident that you will eventually agree with me if your a true American at heart. I don't act out of hatred, and then mold an arguement to fit my needs. I simply call em as I see em. If your fucking up, then your going to draw my criticism, regardless of your ethnic or religious background.

Uh, duder-  

Dissent IS patriotism, in most cases.  It's wanting your country to head in the right direction when you see it faltering.  While, we now know that the US Communist party WAS run by Moscow, the members in it were entitled by the constitution to believe that theirs was the best way for America to go.

Similarly, people of various ethnic groups are allowed to feel that the intere4sts of their ancestral home dovetail with the US's.  Haitians want the US to treat Haiti well, Poles want Poland respected.

If many Jews think Israel deserves American support, it's allowed.  My Family is British Jewish, and we hope America stays tight with England too.  They are entitled to think even that the interests of the US and their nationality's homeland are concurrent.  That there is no daylight between one and the other.

There is only treason when someone KNOWs their action is against the interests of the nation whose passport they hold.

I find your anti-semitism distateful and unfortunate, and even threatening (easy for me, I lost over 1,000 relatives to the holocaust), but your lack of knowledge on the subject even more amazing.  You have still not pointed out a single case I can credit where support for Israel is direclty contrary to American interests.  So far you seem to think there is a conspiracy by jews to steer the US into actions that benefit both itself and Israel.        Enlightened self interest is threatening how?