out of the country. As long as capitalists control the Egyptian economy there cannot be a free society there. The Egyptian people must establish a socialist workers state in order to free themselves from the parasitic capitalist class. Only then can there be a real democracy in Egypt!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt


Now the dominos will realy start falling in the middle east.....hope Iran & syria are not to far behind.

Let's hope Egypt follows Turkey's form of Muslim Democracy. The Middle east (other than Israel) is prob. 2 geneations away at least before they get close to "Western Democracy".

Which begs the question. If other countries follow in Egypts footsteps and in a generation or two there are actual legitimate democracies in the ME, will GWB get any credit 50 years from now for being a visionary and bringing democracy to the ME???

Take note neocons: It didn't require one US soldier to do this. The Egyptian people did it all by themselves. They weren't just fighting a dictator, but they were fighting a dictator who has been given billions upon billions of dollars in US aid.

When you've got a good thing, you don't have to sell it to people at the end of a gun. They will steal it.


-- Modified on 2/11/2011 9:18:20 AM

But, honestly, I think you're right! I'm certain he will get some credit.

Let's see:

The guy who subverted 3 elections in the US, subverted an election in Mexico, overthrew a democracy in Haiti, and attempted to overthrow a democracy in Venezuela should get credit for the outster of a dictator in Egypt that Dubya funded with billions of dollars. Riiight.

Maybe you ought to give credit where credit is due: The Egyptian people who worked their asses off for the last month to get this done while Dubya sat on his ass trying to avoid being prosecuted for being the war criminal that he is. Yeh, Dubya's a regular Thomas Jefferson, right GaG?

I can't wait for your litany of insults in response to me pointing out the dumbest fucking thing you've ever said.

Google, Facebook, Twitter. Let's thrown in the U.S. smartphone manufacturers. How about Cisco & Intel? Those Egyptians need to turn West, not East, to Silicon Valley and thank Allah.

I believe history will be a lot kinder to GWB than you think. His spending like a drunken Democrat aside of course.

I am no big fan of GWB, but he wasn't wrong about everything. The rest of your drivel isn't even worth responding to.

See, it's just not the same when I do it. lol

need any guns.

So, much for the rationale of many of the militia groups here the the U.S., who believe they need guns in the eventuality that they need to overthrow an oppressive government.

and I say that with the utmost respect to the Jews on the board. Who woulda thunk a Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook, or a Sergey Brin and Larry Page of Google. Their mothers would be so proud (lol).

Who knows, maybe they will start chanting "Silicon Valley is Great", or "Silicon Valley be with you".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110211/ts_yblog_thecutline/social-media-plays-role-in-egypt-some-expected-in-iran

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is not nearly as dumb as you calling Venezuela a democracy. Freedom House lists 116 countries as 'electoral democracies' and VZ ain't on that list. Just b/c you are thrilled with an avid socialist being the dictator, doesn't mean its a democracy. (Hint: It takes more than holding elections to be a true democracy -- otherwise Iraq under Saddam Hussein would be considered a democracy; in his last 'election' he received 100% of the vote--popular guy, wasn't he??)  

All the supposed injustices that people like you claimed would happen under the Patriot Act but never did actually occur, are occuring in VZ. Crackdowns on any opposition, jailing of political opponents, harassment of the media, fines and jail terms for negative print of the president, etc. In fact, Freedom House rates VZ at the lowest category in regards to freedom of the media.

And no, its not just FH. EIU, DCP, Polity, World Audit, etc. No rating group lists VZ as a democracy. World Audit even ranks VZ right below Kyrgyzstan!

We can pretend all we want, but in the end it was a military coup. Without the military forcing Mubarak out, he never would have left. So while "the people" did not need any guns personally, they did need the guns of the military to back them up and take action.

The next steps will include changing the constitution, and holding free and fair elections, with international observers.

This was a grassroots movement, an uprising by the people.  Despite what the authoritarian leaders around the world may say, the desire for human rights is universal.

government to Egypt?

for another.

I don't think you can accurately call Egypt's version of an economy "capitalist."  It was more of a kleptocracy in which Mubarak's cronies gamed the system to loot it.  Whether his ouster will lead to true democracy or capitalism is a good question.  Skepticism is in order.

"ass facts" LOL

Thievery is a form of primitive capitalism

Cue Patti Smith ......

-- Modified on 2/11/2011 2:36:21 PM

It doesn't matter that you personally don't like socialists. Chavez enjoys more popularity in his country than Obama enjoys in ours. Unlike Saddam, he really does have real political opponents running against him. If you don't know jack shit about Venezuela, then perhaps you shouldn't base your entire opinion on a website. The reality is the Venezuela is more democratic than the United States.

It's also funny that you cite a "crackdown" in Venezuela on opposition media there. Funny thing about that opposition. It was advocating the overthrow of the government. How well do you think the same thing would fly in the United States? And you know all those Venezuleans protesting the shutting down of that TV channel? They were actually pissed because this meant all the soap operas were getting cancelled.

Then Chavez gets accused to stealing elections by using (guess what?) electronic voting machines! Oh, the irony. Strange thing, their electronic voting machines actually match the exit polls.

Furthermore, Chavez has given poor Americans free home heating oil so they wouldn't freeze to death in the winter. That something that no American oil company has the decency to do...and certainly not any of the Bush oil barons.

Including invoking the name "Google" and rolling his eyes about Wael the Google exec who helped coordinate the thing, implying (without clearly saying so, of course) that somehow Google and Facebook and Twitter are agents of...what?  The International Caliphate Conspiracy?  Who knows, but it's good for laughs.  Ain't free speech a great thing?

I can't wait to get the  inside scoop on who did what to whom (if we ever get it).  Something clearly changed between Mubarak's speech last night and the events of this afternoon.  Somehow Omar Suleiman got cut out of the deal, too.

if you had ever been there, even you wouldn't be saying stupid shit like this, and yes I have been to Venezuela. The people hate Chavez, but are terrified of him.

Democracy my fucking ass.

"The reality is the Venezuela is more democratic than the United States"?! You gotta be fucking kidding! Venezuela is about as "democratic" as Cuba ! Then, Willy, you go on to praise dictator Chavez ?! I see him as a left wing version of Mubarik;  but, as awful as Mubarik was, at least he allied himself with our contry. Hugo Chavez is a tin dictator & sworn enemy of the U.S.

Of late, Willy, your posts have been very perceptive--however, I see you're reverting to form & "going off the tracks" again. I found this post to be ill-informed & stupid.


-- Modified on 2/12/2011 6:00:28 AM

Willy definitely has "reverted to form", every time I think there might be hope for that boy he goes and posts something so stupid that even his left wing bretheren get as far away from him as possible. Maybe he is related to Joe Biden?

I think it would be a great idea for Willy to spend a couple of weeks in Caracas. If he survived, he would have a whole new attitude about his beloved Hugo, if he survived of course. I don't think I have ever been in a country that so universally abhorred it's leader. Surrounded by neighbors that are racing into the 21st century, Venezuela remains in the dark ages thanks to their "benevolent leader"

The good news is that an Egyptian type uprising is possible in Venezuela as well. Venezuelans are quite aware of how rapidly the standard of living is rising in neighboring countries like Brazil and Colombia, Hopefully Venezuealans will have their day

Fear is the main reason.

While secretly they refer to Hugo as "fatboy", you won't see to much overt criticism of Chavez, everyone is too scared to say the words out loud, but you can feel it from all but the poorest and least educated. Those are the people that the "Bread and circuses" appeal to.

The poorest of the poor with not rise up until you take that last tortilla out of their mouth, the best hope is what's left of their middle class, but most of them are trying to figure out how to get themselves and whats left of their money out of the country. Incidently, thats why I was down there, trying to help people get what was left of their assets into somewhere safe and secure, it still a work in progress. Unfortunately I am a businessman, not a social worker, and I see the risks outweighing any potential rewards.

Pretty good summary :
Quote:
The end of President Hosni Mubarak's reign over Egypt is a more of a military succession than a popular revolution .
CNN will love this one
Quote:
Unlike previous days where protesters concentrated on Tahrir Square, on Feb. 11 they were more dispersed, with the 6th of October bridge, state television headquarters and the presidential palace also seeing considerable activity. However, despite the broader geography of protests, it appears that the total number of protesters did not appreciably increase: perhaps only from 200,000 previously to 250,000 today (out of a metropolitan population of about 17 million). While it is significant that large protests are occurring at all in an Arab state where anti-regime protests are normally quickly quelled, the demonstrations simply did not reach critical mass to overwhelm the regime.
Quote:
Now the protesters on the streets — not to mention the international media — obviously see this differently. They see this as very similar to those other “revolutions” and are going to be on quite a bit of a high. So far their numbers have not proven sufficient to force the military to do anything in particular (as opposed to being just large enough to be used by the military to press Mubarak), but nothing tends to put people into the streets like a sense of momentum.

http://www.stratfor.com/theme/egypt-unrest



Quote:
They wanted the elder Mubarak to leave not only because he had ambitions for his son but also because he didn’t want to leave after more than a quarter century of pressure. Mubarak wanted guarantees that, if he left, his possessions, in addition to his honor, would remain intact. If Gamal could not be president, then no one’s promise had value. So Mubarak locked himself into position.


Quote:
We assume that for the next few weeks military rule will be based on the 1952 model when Gamal Abdel Nasser overthrew the government, with the ruling council composed of mostly if not entirely military officers.

Quote:
If this follows the patterns of similar evolutions elsewhere, direct military rule means that the parliament will be dissolved (in name if not in fact) and the military will (at least nominally) preside over a transitional system until civilian rule can be reintroduced. But Mubarak’s government was never civilian in the first place. There certainly may be some rearrangements of titles and offices, but at its core this is cosmetic. The military was in charge before military rule was declared. The military is obviously in charge now that military rule has been declared. And so it is up to the military to determine what happens when military rule “ends.”



-- Modified on 2/12/2011 12:20:08 AM

I'm not basing my entire opinion on a website. I've given you rankings from MULTIPLE organizations. Freedom House, by the way, was in existence long before your buddy Al Gore invented the internet.

These are all well-reputable institutions. None of them consider VZ a democracy. so, to paraphrase...

"If you don't know jack shit about [Freedom House], then perhaps you shouldn't base your entire opinion on [shit you make up yourself]".

You clearly have very little understanding of events in VZ under Chavez over the last 12 years.

I'm more of a left-of-center guy myself but I think you're deluded in calling Venezuela a democracy.  Yes, they have elections but they're a farce.  And Chavez has passed all kinds of laws protecting his position as Latin America's budding Mubarak.  He pals around with Ahmedinajad (a/k/k I'm a Dinner Jacket).  If this is democracy it's a very Kafka-esque version of it.

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If that joker Chavez wasn't sitting on an ocean of oil he would have been thrown out on his ass years ago.  It's the oil money that fuels his ability to give the poor people "bread and circuses" so they stay out of the streets.

War on Terror is working and can't stand it when conservatives are right. Tell me how has the strategy changed under Obama? Does Gitmo still exist? Do we still have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? Dubya's stratagem was much more than overthrowing a despot regime in Iraq.  

Dubya's stratagem also included the development of Democracies throughtout the world, so that people could channel their rage throught peaceful means. Democracy involves much more than overthrowing a dictatorship; people must have a vision, must have a confidence that democracy can work. That is Dubya's legacy and if your too ignorant to understand and be honest with facts than your eiher blind or not being fair. Dubya understood and his policies reflected his vision that not only armed force will win the War on Terror.

People must be given hope. Dubya's campaign to combat Aids through his Pepfar program in Africa was one strategy. Developing schools beyond the Madras schools that only foster suicide bombers was another one. By teaching and providing an example of a democracy in the Arab world people are emboldened to rise up and be proud of themselves. You should be thanking Dubya rather condemning him to the scrapheap of history. Which reminds me, I need to send my donation to the President George W. Bush museum.

-- Modified on 2/12/2011 2:57:03 PM

economic system. The capitalist system is based on theft from and exploitation of the working class.

Well they do have elections dont they? We have those around here too. The point is , Chavez has enough political support to remain in power. How he is able to pull it off with US opposition to it is a question that I cant answer. I suspect that he has a cohesive social infrastructure that the CIA has yet to disrupt. I am not a big fan of Chavez because he is a Stalinist and thinks that he can reform capitalism to Marxist specifications. I think that such an approach is a waste of time. Is Venezuela a democracy? No. Only a workers revolution can create democracy in Venezuela.

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