The judicial system is doing exactly what it is SUPPOSE TO DO! How hard is this to understand? 5 doctors over 15 years have concluded that she is a vegetable! No matter how hard they tried over a very long time, NOBODY could get her to responde to ANY stimuli! 32 judges looking at this from every angle have concluded rightly so that it is her husband who is the legal guardian. You really think that supposed "liberal" judges want to kill her because they are just cruel poeople and gave it little thought? Give me a break! That is not even believable enough to be laughable. Her brain is liquified. How can you be so ignorant?
Plus, the hypocricy! What about that sanctity of marriage we heard all about?
Let her go for god sakes! When was the last time you heard ANYBODY say they wanted to be kept alive as a vegetable?
You really think she would want to live as a vegetable like that even *if* (and that is a HUGE **IF**) she was aware of any of this and could feel anything? She is not there! The lights are on but nobody is home! Why can't you understand that? Let her go! What is cruel is to keep her alive artificially in this state of being a vegetable with a tube in her mouth? Okay, genius.
Whenever the necons don't get their way, they act like children and they whine, rant, rave. make up stories & excuses and blame the Judges and the liberals...GROW UP!
The right thing to do is LET HER GO! The vast majority of the country can see that! Why can't you?
I wonder how many of those judges were appointed by Republicans?
Incidently, 70% of Americans including a majority of Republicans beleive that this case had no business being taken up by the Congress of the United States.
That 32 judges agree that even letting Terri Schiavo eat or drink by mouth would be "Life Support" reveals that our system or its inhabitants are Fucked Up Beyond All Repair!
It is just like unplugging the respirator and having the patient continue to breath -- then duck taping their mouth closed and putting a clothe pin on their nose - OR JUST PICKING UP A PILLOW AND SUFFOCATING THEM TO DEATH!
With all deference to James.
What's the difference between a lawyer and a bucket of shit?
The bucket.
Today, I am ashamed of my Country.
Saying that something belongs in the courts and the legislature has no standing is just plain STUPID.
I've heard countless people (inside and outside of the media) say that the legislature is meddling in the court's business. BS!!! If legislatures can't pass laws, then let's get rid of them. There is and has been far too much social legislation coming from the judical benchs of this country.
The only thing that the "court's rights" advocates could possibly hang their hats on with this one is the State's rights argument, EXCEPT that Personal rights should always trump States rights.
Keep in mind that it wasn't the judges who defined artificial life support or decided that her husband should be allowed to terminate it; those standards are spelled out by Florida. If you want to be pissed at someone, blame the Florida legislature for the law.
The Constitution is working the way that it should, even after the attempt by Congress to upsurp it.
But maybe you would like the country to become a savage land where no laws apply. A few month ago I would not have wanted to see such an outcome, but now I say, bring it on if you want to, I can deal with it.
Oh, by the way, your majority of american citizens feeling that the tube should stay connected turned into only 33% within a day, and even that amount is decreasing. Looks like someone had his head up his ass.
Writing a law so fucked up that even the most activist judge couldn't fix it?
-- Modified on 3/23/2005 10:18:41 PM
But, I would add that all this talk about "law" or being a nation of laws is complete bullshit!
We have become a nation of lawyers and judges, who bastardize the "law and constitution" on a daily basis to meet whatever end they desire.
Zin, considering the 8th Amendment, how likely could this scenario be carried out in San Quentin State Prison? If you're honest, you know it would/could never happen, and it shouldn't.
Not to say this isn't bad, but I could think of far worse crimes than this, Bribite. This isn't the worst thing going on in the world right now. But I know that might not be saying much, and that might not be much solace. I do think that without a cerebal cortex, the pain she will feel will be similar to a painful experience in a nightmare-- really a shadow of pain. Then, her remaining brain cells will go dormant within the first four days. There's no pain, because there's nothing for the body to communicate it to.
You keep on comparing this to treatment of criminals. Why? Death shouldn't be even considered criminal punishment, Bribite. For one thing, everybody dies. You're metting out a punishment that eventually they are going to experience as a course of nature. A worse punishment would be to take away years of their life before that happens.
The only justification for a death sentence should be that they are too dangerous to everyone else to keep around.
8th Amendment, I am talking about the "Cruel and Unusal Punishment" of Terri. It would never be tolerated in a State or Federal prison. Actually, I don't think this would be happening to her if she were Lesbian or Black or Muslim.
Actually, it most likely will surprise you that I am opposed to the Death Penalty as it is in force today. My reasons are different, but I oppose it all the same.
As to whether Terri experiences pain, I keep hearing that she responds to pain, why now would she not be feeling any?
Ultimately, I refuse to accept that withholding food and water is "letting her go"! To me it's a judicial mandated killing. If she was on a respirator and was a brain wave flatliner, its a completely different story.
I guided you back around it so you could think further about what you're are asking. Your bringing the 8th amendment into this and trying to associate Schiavo with criminal justice. It's like you just asked why don't we give cancer patients the same treatment as trauma patients? To make it worse, say you vote on the way these patients are to be treated. While your question would show there is something fundamentally amiss with your picture of what trauma is and what cancer is, I wouldn't be able to answer it without making you think its okay, and without your voting as though its rational.
Induced death is the only association between Schiavo and the criminals. Arguments about suffering notwithstanding-- she's given morphine, not enough to kill her, but enough to take away any remnants of pain there could be. Our society also worked hard to make execution more humane. Lethal injection is an example of that.
You're incorrect to say it is judicial mandated killing. It's Michael Schiavo's decision, and if he changes his mind about it now, they'll reinsert the feeding tube. Simple as that. Michael Schiavo is not a judge, not an agent of the law or the court, so it's not judicially mandated. The law called for the decision to be his. So it's judicially enforced, but only after 10 years of Michael Schiavo prodding it. No matter what his character is, anyone standing in his shoes now, holy or vile, would be given the same choice-- in legal theory.
This is far different from the courts giving a sentence to a criminal or mandating death through starvation for one. But the reason why we've ended up with having to starve, rather than give her swift lethal injection, is due the way right-to-lifers will fight it.
For pain, Bribite: Any neurologist will tell you that anyone with just a brain stem will respond to it somewhat. Otherwise, you could poke an unconscious person with a needle, and they will wake up later with no memory of pain or trauma. Dentist will drill on your teeth. Do you remember the pain? For Terri Schiavo, her body will respond to pain, but without a cerebal cortex or intact mid-brain, there's no *her* there to receive the report and know what misery it is. Just in case there is some mistake about this, they are giving her morphine too.
As for it not happening to Moslems, Lesbians or Blacks, it has already happened to a Black family, in Texas, with a law that allows kin *no* say whatsoever. (see link) So, yes, I can see this happening to Moslems and Lesbians, too, and others of the popularity challenged.
Just a few days before the Schiavo case went into overdrive, the state of Texas sufficated an infant, Sun Hudson, to death. It's sole purpose? To save medicaid dollars. You could infer that from the title of the law, BTW: the Texas Futile Care Law. What kind of heartless pro-choice governor would sign a bill with that purpose?
And can you guess the name of the governor who signed a bill with that very title into law Bribite? I'll give you a hint: he was also the same governor who allowed 131 executions during his term. Many of them later found to have insufficient defense or to be downright innocent, but he was well informed of this.
Are you having your "read my lips" moment with W, yet?
-- Modified on 3/26/2005 8:10:34 AM
For example: Why do you leftist Democrats worship death?
Because they're the ultimate power junkie. They can't get enough of it. They need to flex, and flex and flex some more.
Don't worry, their time will come and pass, just like the Third Reich, just like all other Fascist and Royalist governments, they will be shown the door eventually. But considering what's at stake and who is bankrolling them, it may be a little messier than usual.
Do a research on the Net and check out what great statesmen such as Henry Kissinger and Li Peng have to say about overpopulation.
-- Modified on 3/25/2005 1:33:04 AM
That 32 judges agree that even letting Terri Schiavo eat or drink by mouth would be "Life Support" reveals that our system or its inhabitants are Fucked Up Beyond All Repair!
(Planning to move out of the US, or off of planet earth? Or maybe start your own government?)
It is just like unplugging the respirator and having the patient continue to breath -- then duck taping their mouth closed and putting a clothe pin on their nose - OR JUST PICKING UP A PILLOW AND SUFFOCATING THEM TO DEATH!
(Yes, Schiavo is probably going to die, and from everything I have read from medical journals, she won't feel any pain or sensation from it because the part of her brain that controls those reflexes isn't working. So it isn't just like suffocating someone with a pillow.)
With all deference to James.
What's the difference between a lawyer and a bucket of shit?
The bucket.
(Get busted in an LE sting for hiring a police officer posing as a female escort, you'll need a lawyer all right)
Today, I am ashamed of my Country.
(Why because the separation of powers is actually working, despite the attempts of Bush and his brother and politicians of both parties to overstep their bounds?)
calls judges "activists" when they decide on things that they don't like (i.e. gay marraige), but then when they need a judge to act in their favor, suddenly its not "activism" anymore.
It's not "activism"; it's "in their (and "our") best interests".
The important thing to remember is that in the right wing manifesto, it's "activism" only when the judges rule against them, no matter what the issue.
The judicial system is doing exactly what it is SUPPOSE TO DO! How hard is this to understand? 5 doctors over 15 years have concluded that she is a vegetable! No matter how hard they tried over a very long time, NOBODY could get her to responde to ANY stimuli! 32 judges looking at this from every angle have concluded rightly so that it is her husband who is the legal guardian. You really think that supposed "liberal" judges want to kill her because they are just cruel poeople and gave it little thought? Give me a break! That is not even believable enough to be laughable. Her brain is liquified. How can you be so ignorant?
Plus, the hypocricy! What about that sanctity of marriage we heard all about?
Let her go for god sakes! When was the last time you heard ANYBODY say they wanted to be kept alive as a vegetable?
You really think she would want to live as a vegetable like that even *if* (and that is a HUGE **IF**) she was aware of any of this and could feel anything? She is not there! The lights are on but nobody is home! Why can't you understand that? Let her go! What is cruel is to keep her alive artificially in this state of being a vegetable with a tube in her mouth? Okay, genius.
Whenever the necons don't get their way, they act like children and they whine, rant, rave. make up stories & excuses and blame the Judges and the liberals...GROW UP!
The right thing to do is LET HER GO! The vast majority of the country can see that! Why can't you?