Maybe the accusation is falling on the wrong suspects? I heard this said on the radio, NPR. (I haven't tracked down the show, yet.) What we think of as Big Oil: Exxonmobil, Chevron, BP, are actually the most transparent and accountable part of Big Oil.
The culprits in taking major oil profits are the governments of the oil producing countries. Saudi Arabia is a good example. They have a total welfare state-- and no taxes. It's the major reason why that monarchy can keep its power over the radicals. Russia currently is getting filthy rich on oil-- though it doesn't add into a welfare system. Venezuela: we all know about that.
Really, attacking and weakening the oil companies reduces their power compared to those governments. It would not be a good thing to do this.
Probably we should think about it as a matter of supporting idle, cradle to grave supported, irresponsible and unemployable Saudis who have nothing to do but pray to Allah and scheme of ways to attack us.
the one thing I really liked about john kerry was his suggetion we spend A LOT more on promoting alt/en and conservation, this is a realm in which i agree bush has really failed..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21718926
-- Modified on 11/10/2007 11:44:09 AM
Coming from you, this has much more credibilty here.I agree with you completely. The "enemy" is not our own domestic oil companies. They don't set oil prices any more than a farmer sets the prices for his crops. Corn prices are throught e roof, but I don't see anyone blaming the "greedy corn farmers"
Without our own domestic oil industry we would be in even worse shape than we are now. We produce more oil than most OPEC countries, but we consume 25% of the worlds oil, over twenty million barrels a day.
Zin, has someone has hacked into your computer and posting errant nonsense under your name? Only kidding, it's a good question, let me see if in the course of a pedantic long-winded and mostly irrelevant response I can hijack this thread and maybe stir up some fecal matter.
1. It's natural, as Americans, to look closest to home and wonder about Big Oil. These are hugh multibillion dollar transnational corporate enterprises, all HQed [not BP] in the US and all clearly and commonsensically associated with this country. Most of these fellows probably rest comfortably in the Fortune 100. Whatever their present corporate identity, most of these companies are associated with the industrialization of the US in the latter part of the 19th century.
2. There is the natural and typically American habit of distrusting bigness, especially when it's bigness associated not with the public good, and devoted explicitly to turning a commercial buck.
3. These companies long predate whatever ability the oil-producing states have acquired to set output and price levels. So pointing to those countries, emotionally satisfying and factually correct as it is, only tells part of the picture.
4. Think of Big Oil as the "executiv agent" of he oil-producing states. Without their "downstream" ability to refine and distibute oil, how are the Saudis et.al. going to turn a buck to their advantage? Delivering unrefined crude via camel? I think not.
5. Yeah, the Saudis, the Russians, etc.. awash in oil revenue seem to be pissing it away and not doing much for the betterment of their folks. Or using it to buy off nasty political opponents. So, what's new? Feckless [at best] governments are nothing new. Explotative gov'ts are even less of a news flash. They've existed as long as recorded history has existed. And, when was the last time you remember ExxonMobil doing anything for the ignorant unwashed masses here in the US?[except delivering a pretty good product, reliably, for a really long time and at mostly reasonable prices? For which the marketplace rewards them handsomely. That's why they get up and go to the office each day. They're definitely not worried about XL1 having sufficient heat and fuel to live a minimally comfortable life,]
6." Really, attacking and weakening the oil companies reduces their power compared to those governments. It would not be a good thing to do this." Hey, emotionally, i'm with you, but behaviorally and emperically I think this has to be demonstrated, not merely asserted [commomsensical though it is]. This no doubt was true prior to the formation of OPEC in 1960. In any case Big Oil, despite it's reduced straits relative to the oil producers, seems to be doing quite well regardless. It's relationship is no longer exploitative/parasitic, but symbiotic. Big Oil cannot live w/o the oil producers, and vice versa.
7. Depending upon who and what you believe, or possibly who just shouts the loudest and the most frequently, "...irresponsible and unemployable Saudis who have nothing to do but pray to Allah and scheme of ways to attack us"
would probably exist in the absence of a single drop of petrol in that hot and unpleasant land. They'd simply have less time to devote to those charming pursuits. And depending upon the exact grievance to which some might give voice, perhaps not every criticism they render is totally unjustified. Plenty of Americans, frustrated and pissed off with the whole bloodly lot of them, might readily support a policy of attacking them to "resolve" that "problem." Why Saudis would or ought to forego a similar emotional response baffles me. Among a great many other things. Oh, but I forgot -- we're the good guys.
8. This questions begs to have a globalization component in response, but that's for another time.
Zin, I hope you have not taken this as as a slam. Just my devalued 2 cent contribution to the discussion.
Original Seven Sisters Oil
Standard Oil of New Jersey (Esso) – now ExxonMobil
Royal Dutch Shell (Shell)
Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) (British) – Now BPAmoco
Standard Oil Co. of New York (Mobil) – now ExxonMobil
Standard Oil of California (Chevron) – now ChevronTexaco
Gulf Oil – now split into Chevron and BP
Texaco – now ChevronTexaco
New Seven Sisters of Oil (wholly or mostly state run oil)
Saudi Aramco (Saudi Arabia)
JSC Gazprom (Russia)
CNPC (China)
NIOC (Iran)
PDVSA (Venezuela)
Petrobras (Brazil)
Petronas (Malaysia)
were the biggest victims of nationalized oil. I know nobody is going to shed a tear for these multi billion dollar companies, but their money and technology were what developed the oil industries of these once, third world countries.
Their "kindness" was repaid by the respective countries by throwing them out on their collective ears after the host countries were able to operate without them. These countries then ever so graciously allowed their former business partners to become customers of their former host/partners while all the while chanting "death to America at the top of their lungs"
Moral of the story? The biggest company is no match for the smallest soviergn country.
the first time a country failed to react with gunboats in the wake of a foreign nationalization of petro company assets was [hold your breath, drumroll optional] - the US, in 1938, when Mexico nationalized US oil company holdings there.
See, it's ALWAYS "Blame America."
Not for nothing, but "Death to America" sure is catchier, and far simpler easier to memorize and chant than, say, "Death To Profit-Motivated Transnational Petroleum Corporations Headquartered in The US."
You know, these guys have American embasies and consulates and libraries and cultural centers to stone and to attack, they need to keep it simple, stupid, so as to have more time to go about their more important tasks of nation-building, natioanl-identity forging, and modernization.
When I was little my sister had a quarter I wanted that quarter I traded her 5 pennies for it and told her she was getting more. Eventually she got educated, not through my "kindness", and kicked me out too.
The big religions of the middle east get their funding from big oil. The ignorant masses are shown how to kill themselves but only harm people on mass transit. Working stiffs trying to do the right thing to conserve resourses who have nothing to do with how poor a saudi is. They blow up, are now afraid to travel enmass and go back to driving cars. The rest loose civil liberties and have cameras wathing their every move.
Well... that's easy for YOU to say.
here's the link...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5365439
-- Modified on 11/10/2007 10:58:20 PM
Maybe the evil oil companies aren't quite so evil after all?
Of course without government oversight, "big oil" just like all "big business" probably would be gouging their customers.