Obama isn't a liberal. Clinton isn't a liberal. And according to Inicky Kerry isn't a liberal.
My question is who would the liberals on this board consider a true liberal? And has there ever been a true liberal president? Do any of you think you may have pushed the goalposts back too far and nobody can govern according to your liberal criteria?
-- Modified on 8/9/2011 7:50:13 PM
I consider the following Presidents to be liberal:
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson.
The only goal posts that have been push has been on the Republican side. Even by the GOP's standards today, Reagan would be too liberal for them.
The reality is that the Republicans are not what you call traditionally conservative. Rather, they have moved so far to the right, that they've became moderate fascists. I don't say this lightly, either.
If you look at the actual policies, you'll see that the Dems are farther to the right than Eisenhower Republicans were a half century ago.
By definition, a "centrist" position is a position favored by the majority of the people. When you see polls that say that 82% want higher taxes on the wealthy, that is by definition, a centrist position. It's depicted as a rather radical liberal position.
I don't buy it Willy. I won't speak of the Founding Fathers but your modern examples wouldn't pass your standards. JFK was a tax cutter and a hawk.
JFK was hardly as liberal as I like, but he used negotiations with the Soviets to end the Cuban missile crisis, and he actually raised effective top marginal income taxes.
adminstration. Again, the case can be made JFK was actually a conservative.
change an institution that had existed for thousands of years. The institution of slavery before the American Civil war was as natural as falling rain. Then again President Lincoln could be argued was ourr most fervent conservative, he did after all fought to preserve the Union and United States Consitution.
Then there is, Gen. George Washington, our greatest President. Gen. Washington along with our founding fathers proposed an idea of an Republic where the Head of State is elected by the people rather than Divine birthright. For thousands of years the monarchy until the Great War i.e. World War 1 was the major form of government on this earth. Pretty liberal if you ask me.
President Nixon can be argued was the most liberal President in the last forty-years. Under his adminstration the draft was abolished, the right for eighteen-year old was enacted. The clean water act was signed by him and the EPA was started by him as was OSHA. So was the Federal Railroad Adminstration. Pell Grants were started by his adminstration. He began detente, and travelled to the USSR and China. I hold my nose on this one, he and FDR were the only Presidents in the last century to impose wage price controls. Nixon not Johnson ended the Vietnam War.
In summary, I guess what I am saying, people are easily fooled by labels rather than measuring a President by his actions.
-- Modified on 8/9/2011 8:43:53 PM
He believed in control of corporations,consumer protection & conservation of Natural Resources.
Created depts of commerce & Labor. Was a "trust buster" of corrupt business monopolies.
A truly great progressive POTUS who would be viewed as a Communist today by the Neanderthals that now make up the GOP.
the Navy Seals. As a candidate, Sen. Kennedy accused the Eisenhower adminstration as being soft on communism. There are many pictures of Pres. Kennedy on manuevers with the US Navy. He was very pro-military.
Pres. Kennedy was another POTUS, whom I sincerely believe was looking out what was best for this country. Did he make mistakes, sure, can we argue his intentions, sure, but the bottom line is, it is not fair to characterize his Presidency as liberal or conservative.
Labels can be misleading.
Especially about Nixon. Problem was, he was also a paronoid who was willing to trample on the Constitution. As for Lincoln, don't forget that this "liberal" also suspended habeas corpus. Even Bush didn't do that. As for Nixon ending the Vietnam War, actually, he didn't. The war was still going on when he resigned and it didn't end until 1975 under Ford when the final, inevitable collapse happened. Still, I agree with the rest of what you're saying, especially the point about labels.
Why I mentioned labels is because people are totally wrong about Obama when he is classified as a liberal/progressive.
Now as far as Pres. Nixon, well I agree he was paranoid. We disagree about the Vietnam War. Can you agree with Pres. Nixon on this quote:
"Most misunderstood war in American history has been the Vietnam conflict".
Also about Obama. He's a classic middle-of-the-road compromiser, and not a very good one at that. He always seems to leave his opposition in a position to claim victory.