If you're going to make statements, be man enough to back them up, or back away from them. This passive-aggressive crap is lame.
http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=2865&boardID=39&page=2
Follow the link, scroll down and click on the Kerry confesses button. I know its an anti-kerry sight, but it is a recording of his actual testimony, in his own words, in his own boring voice and delivery.
Furthermore, since you were there, you know that what he said even if you believe it was from "others" testimony was not true, inflammatory and traitorous to those still serving in country.
He (Kerry) actually admits that he, himself, was guilty of war crimes! Of course I think that his own confession is also a lie!
After hearing his (Kerry's) own words will you be man enough to admit you are wrong?
Here's the quote from 'Met the Press' in 1971:
"I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who. . .ordered us. . .are war criminals."
Not a confession of intentionally committing war crimes, but an indictment of those who ordered such acts as a matter of course.
I believe we'll find that the soldiers pictured torturing Iraqis were trained to such behavior, and acted on the instructions of those who should know beter.
You call this snippet 'testimony'. Document who he was 'testifying' to - I want to read the full transcript.
Here is a quote from his real, documented, sworn testimony before Congress:
"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."
You can read the rest of it at the link below. I will take his SWORN TESTIMONY over a manipulated sopund bite posted on a site I wouldn't wipe my ass with. Here's a quote from John McCain about the person behind the site:
"I strongly caution reporters who may be contacted by or are interested in Mr. Ted Sampley and the various organizations he claims to represent, and his opinions on the subject of Senator Kerry, or any subject for that matter, to investigate thoroughly Mr. Sampley's background and history of spreading outrageous slander and other disreputable behavior before inadvertently lending him or his allegations any credibility.
"I am well familiar with Mr. Sampley, and I know him to be one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I consider him a fraud who preys on the hopes of family members of missing servicemen for his own profit. He is dishonorable, an enemy of the truth, and despite his claims, he does not speak for or represent the views of all but a few veterans. The many veterans I know would think it a disgrace to be considered a comrade or supporter of Ted Sampley."
Sounds like your kind of guy, Bribite.
-- Modified on 5/10/2004 9:59:02 PM
Puck, as you have stated here you served during the Vietnam War, I assume in the military and if so you know that every single person serving in the military is schooled on the Geneva Convention! During that lecture you are told, by a Superior Officer, that you CAN and ARE OBLIGATED TO DISOBEY any order that conflicts with the articles of the Geneva Convention!
"I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who. . .ordered us. . .are war criminals."
Maybe Hanoi John was sleeping during that class? And don't forget, I said that John Kerry was lying about this too!
As far as Sampley is concerned, I am more likely to believe him than a politician who has changed his views on Kerry recently. I happy that McCain has come to a point of forgiveness, however, his new attitude is not widely shared by Vietnam Vets. Read McCain's first book and you get a whole different attitude about Vietnam Vets Against the War, cofounded by Kerry and a fraud who I might add testified that he had also committed war crimes (he was actually playing handball in Germany at the time). Many (albeit, not the majority) of the so called Honorably Discharged Veterans who testified at the Detroit "hearings" have been revealed as either never serving in the military or were stationed elsewhere on the planet, many never left the States!
Those who claimed to have committed war crimes should have been arrested and Court Martialed! I'm not sure of the statute of limitations on war crimes but I think it is forever, (I.E. Nazi war criminals who were hunted down decades later!)
My Dad was involved in retaking the Philippines during WWII, he experienced the savage treatment given to American Soldiers by the Japanese in their Internment Camps, and he was almost in tears of the recent revelation of American Solders treatment of Iraqi detainees. We are both at a loss as to how American's could show such inhumanity to anyone, however, we both think the severity of the inhumanity by US Soldiers in Iraq does not compare or even come close to the atrocities committed against Americans in past wars or this one. No excuses, heads should role to the extent of the abuse. If Rumsfeld sanctioned it, he should be fired. I just find it hard to believe that he sanctioned it.
In my three tours of Vietnam, search and destroy, recon, several battles, taking of hundreds of prisoners, I can tell you that we committed no war crimes! Sure we all saw guys loose it, but they were quickly reined in and always before captives were mistreated. As you may know, or at least understand, emotions are pretty raw in battle, especially when you have lost brothers. But I didn't know one Marine that didn't struggle (many still do) with the fact that they were killing people (many still do). I don't wish that burden on anyone. Interrogations, harsh interrogations, hell yea! War Crimes, no, and we didn't need the Geneva Convention text to know right from wrong.
What I witnessed was American Marines putting themselves under severe fire to save villagers, sharing their rations, Medics providing aid and comfort to the locals, doing what the VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICAN SOLIDERS DO! And since you were there, you know it too!
Another thing that I can't understand is why the media is so selective as to what they show the American people? If you wanted to see images of the four Americans recently shot, beaten, burned and hanged, you had to find it on the web, they weren't shown on network TV! I rarely see pictures of American Soldiers showing kindness to the Iraqi people, but I get them emailed to me, see them on websites, never in the media. We are told that the images of 9/11 are too gruesome to be televised anymore, but we have image after image of mistreatment of Iraqi detainees on TV, printed in magazines and newspapers without reserve. If the media really want to tell the truth, show it all, sunlight is the best truth detector!
Everybody is a liar and a fool but you, and those who think like you. You claim Kerry said he's a war criminal, but you also claim he's lying, and you want him prosecuted for the war crimes you don't believe he committed.
Are you on dope?
McCain is a good guy, but when he labels Sampley a liar and worse, he's a fool.
You need to double up on those meds, buddy.
I didn't claim it, you listened to his voice say it himself. But for you he could rape your mother and get your vote if you thought he could beat Bush. Kerry is a empty man, the worst possible choice the democrats have made since Dukakis.
Not once did I say that McCain was a fool
"As far as Sampley is concerned, I am more likely to believe him than a politician who has changed his views on Kerry recently. I'm happy that McCain has come to a point of forgiveness, however, his new attitude is not widely shared by Vietnam Vets. Read McCain's first book and you get a whole different attitude about Vietnam Vets Against the War, cofounded by Kerry and a fraud who I might add testified that he had also committed war crimes (he was actually playing handball in Germany at the time).
No other mention of McCain was used! I would however like to take this opportunity to announce again that Senator John McCain (R-AZ) is the co-chairman of the Re-Elect George Bush Committee in the state of Arizona, so rest assured he's not supportng Hanoi John Kerry.
Prop Kerry up with your twisted logic and who knows what induced fiction all you want, the American people aren't going to buy what he is selling even if that changes day to day, which it of course does. Kerry couldn't identify a core value if it slapped him upside the head, and neither could the vast majority of his apologists!
-- Modified on 5/13/2004 5:59:19 PM
I braced you over your disrespect for the service I did my country - read it again, and apologize.
Or are you the only 'vet' who has the right to an opinion?
"I don't think Kerry can count on too many votes from the Veteran Community. (Even counting the 10's of pro-Kerry "Vets" in the TER community) lol
The "lol" was meant as a smile to those 10's of you Veterans who are supporting Kerry. To the extent that you are so thin skinned as to take it personally as an afront to your service, I do apologize.
I hope you can catch a nap now.
A smile? Keep your smirking to yourself. I am proud to be a Veteran. I am not a 'vet'. I served my country and will not have the likes of you disparage it in any way.
Stuff your backhanded attempt at an apology - you're not man enough to apologize properly.
The moderator will not allow me to address your response in the manner of my choice.
I did however notice your lack of response to my post titled "Geneva Convention".
-- Modified on 5/12/2004 5:27:04 PM
I would much prefer for you to be able to display just exactly who and what you are for all to see. That's just one of the benefits of the first amendment.
Bribite stated this in the post prior to the link you provided.
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Bribite stated:
"What I stated is very clear to just about anyone, especially those who are veterans, that the great majority of Veterans will not support Kerry! "
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I find the exact opposite where I live and through the men that I served with. We are all backing Kerry because Bush is such a fuckup. From the VFW to the American Legion and all points in between, the MAJORITY want Bush OUT!
I belong to a VFW chapter in Georgia, of which the majority of members support Bush, believe invading Iraq was the right thing to do, believe that mistakes have been made in the occupation phase of the war, and strongly dislike John Kerry. The Vietnam era veterans are the most vocal about Kerry.
RLTW
representative of Vietnam vets in general?
That would be a ludicrous assertion.
And in my area it is just the opposite.