column entitled IRAQ, BALLOTS AND PISTACHIOS in today's (December 12) paper.  It can also be easily accessed on-line.  Whether liberal or conservative, you'll find it thought provoking.

Friedman has sort of taken an about face WRT to Bush and Iraq. He apparently sees that Bush has no exit strategy and is failing.

A while ago, Friedman wrote a book called The Lexus and Olive Tree.  The essence of the book was in one end of the world, people are building these beautiful and perfect cars, Lexus; and on the other end, people are fighting over olive trees!

I thought this, better than anything else, crystallized the stupidity of the Arab-Israeli wars.  There are vast amount of land in that area, and even the most virulent anti-Israelis in the region, confess that Israelis did a fine job in establishing a country with high technical competency.  They could put their hearts and brains together, and bring prosperity to the troubled land.

BOTH sides are guilty as hell.  Israelis for not understanding the sensitivity of the people to what could be perceived as colonialism,  and Arabs for completely either not reading, or grasping the history of Jews in Europe, and centuries of discrimination (and massacres during the Crusades), culminating in Holocaust.

When we finally get an enlightened President, these tragedies will come to an end.  

The State of Israel was created in 1948. Upon independence, Israel was invaded by the armies of six Arab nations: Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. In addition, local Arab Palestinian forces also fought the Jewish Israelis.

During and after World War II, nobody, including the United States, wanted the Jews in their country. Not surprising, since at that time, official Christian dogma called Jews the killers of Christ. And that was the nicest thing they had to say about the Jews.

Once upon a time, I was naive enough to think that it was a small but vocal anti-Semitic minority who spoke from a position of ignorance to the facts and the truth.

And with all due respect to the many here in this forum who try to be respectful of the Jews while being critical of Israeli policies, there are far too few of you, and far too many like funtime69. Derogatory references to Jews are fully integrated into common language. Even my best friend used to brag about how he got a good deal on his cars because he would "Jew down" the salesman.

Call me overly sensitive if you will. But walk a mile in my shoes before you condemn me for my paranoias.

I don't know about  your "official Christian dogma called Jews the killers of Christ" comment, I was born in 1951, raised in a Christian home and never heard that until the hoopla about Mel Gibson's "Passion" movie!

I do know this, Israel's best friend in the whole fucking world are American Christians.  They are unwavering in their support of Israel.

Personally, I have never condemned any Israeli politician, even when Israel was controlled by the more liberal party and I thought their appeasement was ill advised, and of course I was right.

Zed, I think and hope that your presumption of the size of the anti-Semitic voice in this country is over estimated.  From my experience, those Evangelical Christians that so many here fear are very supportive of Israel and Jews in general.  In fact, it is those people of the center right who are most supportive of Israel.  I also believe that this is the reason that the Jewish vote has increased dramatically for the Republican party, 25% (50% adult males) in 2004.  Anti-Semitism is as unwelcome in the Republican party as was David Duke.

I think you are somewhat oversensitive about the vernacular & colloquialism of our language, I occasionally have said, "I was gypped", but I hold no animosity towards Gypsies!  I do understand that such statements can be hurtful and do try to refrain from it.

bribite, I have no doubt there are millions of Christian families in this country and around the world who do not teach or preach anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic sentiments. My two business partners come from religious Protestant Christian and Irish-Catholic upnringings; talk about a clash! Sepecifically, I was referring to the Catholic Church, which only as recently as 1964 officially recanted "Jews Killed Jesus" dogma from their liturgy. It was this current Pope who officially apologized to Israel and the worlds Jews for the complicity of the Catholic Church in the attempted genocide of the Jewish people by the Nazi's as part of their Final Solution.

And while the Evangelical Christians may indeed be the most vocal suporters of the State of Israel, this is far from an altruistic perspective. The reality is only because of the Evangelical belief that the Jews must return to a State of Israel that is wholly and complete to insure the Second Coming of Jesus the Messiah, which will lead to a complete destruction of the Jewish people except for those who will choose to convert to Christianity and thus, be Saved. And please do not interpret this as a sling of arrows at the Evangelical Christian movement. Yes, they are indeed a very vocal support group of Israel, and undoubtedly have a role in the seemingly pro-Israel Bush administration policies of the Middle East. Politics makes strange bedfellows, is an old old saying.

Bribite, let me share this little true story with you.
In 1966, I was a 13 year old kid in a Baltimore religious school. The great plane strike was that summer, so I took a bus from Baltimore to LA. During a stopover in Kansas, I was in the diner with my traveling companion, another student. For the meal, we doffed our hats and our yarmulke's (skullcaps) were revealed. The waitress, a young girl, probably the owners daughter or granddaughter, asked us why we were wearing the caps. My companion told her it was because we were Jewish, and the cap signifies the separation between the Earthly, us, and the Heavenly, God. This young girl then got a really curious look on her face... and asked us "But where are your horns?"
She was not being anti-Semitic, she was genuinely surprised. She explained to us that she had been taught that Jews had horns and a vestigial tail, and that was how you told a Jew apart from a real human being. There was no trace of animosity, rancor, or hatred in her voice or mannerisms, she was quite matter-of-fact, non-belligerent, and surprised to learn the truth. True story. 1966. not 1866, 1966.

People are not born anti-Semitic, or with an ingrained loathing of other peoples belief systems or existence. Hatred can only be taught by indoctrination and experiences.

Zed, I'm was not raised Catholic, how sad that they would teach such hatred, especially given that Jesus was a Jew, and with the exception of Luke the whole New Testament was written by Jews!  Someone will have to help me with the logic of that.

As far as Evangelicals are concerned, whatever their thinking, it all results in support of Israel.  If they are right and Jesus is the Messiah, and comes again, I would think that most "religious" Jews would indeed "convert" being that by all Biblical accounts its going to be "quite impressive".  Futhermore, it is testament to their love of the Jews.

Hearing your story about your cross country bus trip just solidifies my comments to funtime to get out and meet some people outside his comfort zone.  I would hope that your moment with that young girl ended the continuation of such bigotry in her line.

I agree with your last statement.  By the luck of the draw, I was born of Irish immigrants who suffered a little along the way and wouldn't tolerate such behavior in our home or in their presence.

BTW, I have attended several Jewish weddings and own my own white yarmulke.  Great weddings, great people and great food.

at each and every one of them!  As a matter of fact, one of the wildest wedding parties I ever went to was the wedding of a Jewish girl to an Irish guy.  The wedding was conducted in the ballroom of a hotel, and the groom's brother, a priest, married the couple in a completely non-religious ceremony that was totally hilarious.  When the party ended, nobody wanted to leave!

These ethnic cultures are wonderful and they are the fabric of our Country.  I hope they don't homogenize away with time.

The best wedding I ever attended was my best friends, he as Irish as they come and he married a beautiful Mexican woman.  I think I was pissing straight Padron for at least a week!  Ad to that "I think" I got laid, at least I woke up the next morning with one of the bridesmaids in my bed .

Ah, sometimes I wish I stilled drank, but alas, by the time I was 37 I had already had enough Bushmills for two lifetimes.

-- Modified on 12/15/2004 6:38:41 PM