I started to reply to Harry Lime below in Zed's thread about constitutional convention, but thought his "absolute fundamentalism" is such a rich idea that it deserved it's own topic. I hope I am not too abstract - but I might be.

First, Harry, an "atta boy" to you for calling this out.  Of all the dynamics I see, this is among the most distressing - the belief that the sublime reality of great thought is somehow captured in a static document or a set of specific concepts.  

A "literal interpretation" my ass.

I see it everywhere, because it is a function of a stage of human development.  Without going into the details, it reflects a stage that should be resolved in childhood and certainly by early adulthood - concrete thinking, responsibility vested in authority, moral reasoning grounding in compliance with the letter of the law, etc.  Because we see from our developmental status and cannot imagine perspectives we might develop later as we grow, especially in this stage there is a great urge to control and create conformity.

The power of this perspective is that a) it can be articulated compellingly because good and bad have clear boundaries and b) there are a LOT of people at this stage of development in US and the world.

So that something as utterly wonderous as authentic spiritual growth or as brilliant as the Constitution is diluted.  For example, I am in AA.  AA has a remarkable foundation to it and proposes a set of potent practices that support authentic human development. And so many members are in this "fundamentalist" stage of growth - and are powerful brokers of information, with the result that many newcomers genuinely seeking sobriety are utterly turned off by the religious dogma of the group.  

The point being: there is no solution to this because people are where they are and generally are doing their best.  They didn't draw up a business plan that got them there.  It just happened.  Eg, the people in AA are sincere and as self-honest as they can be, and I respect their intent.  Some will indeed mature over time.  

I guess this is why I believe progressives need to start from ground zero in rethinking the challenges we face in the 21st Century, how we frame them, and the moral foundation for action.  In the Information Age information, itself, becomes the source of power.  Progressives need a articulate a clearer vision of the core challenges and what matters so that our own funtamentalists can carry the ball.

... and yep, progressives need to have our own fundamentalist sect. Can win without them.

Ok, enough rambling. It's 70 in LA and I want to go outside and play.

-- Modified on 2/5/2005 5:31:16 PM

-- Modified on 2/5/2005 5:12:13 PM

in it he presents a compelling arguement that our central government is not nor really ever has been very proficient at "keeping us safe". Why is this important?

""We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.""
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

This is the simple task outlined by the founders of this country as THE PRIMARY PURPOSE of the central government. When government at ALL LEVELS takes 40% of it's citizens income and can't perform it's PRIMARY PURPOSE, something is wrong!

This is the PRIMARY PURPOSE of Alcoholics Anonymous.

""Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.""
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/default/en_about.cfm

And this a quote from the preface of what is known as "The Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous.

""Because this book has become the basic text for our Society and has helped such large numbers of alcoholic men and women to recovery, there exists strong sentiment against any radical changes being made in it.""
"Therefore, the first portion of this volume, describing the A.A. recovery program, has been left untouched in the course of revisions made for the second, third, and fourth editions.""

The collective wisdom of Alcoholics Anonymous has decided that in order to perform it's PRIMARY PURPOSE the program at it's core should not be changed. NOTE the reason stated...

You see, my reticense to willy nilly change is not due to some childhood disorder not yet reconciled as Mr wmblake would have you believe, it is because the further you move from the core of something, the less pure it becomes.

In the case of AA, people's lives hang in the balance. It is too bad Mr. wmblake does'nt find AA too acomadative to his desire to drive what HE percieves to be necesary change. He'll grow someday to realize, everything is not about him.

In the case of the US, ask yourselves, with a multitrillion dollar budget, is the problem that our government is too small? Since the NEW DEAL, there has been an explosion of tasks performed by government under the auspices of "promoting the general welfare".

So, how are we doing?

I would resubmit for consideration:
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/summary.htm

Harry does'nt like this much. He thinks the author has piss for brains. That's HArry's way of discussing facts. Milton Friedman, winner of a Nobel Prize in economics endorses this work. I'd submit Harry is the one with urine in the skull.

BWDIK????

of the adherent's childhood than anything else.  Fundamentalists find comfort in having the "letter of the law" laid out for them, in the way that a child finds comfort in this.  But in healthy development into adulthood, the need for this comfort becomes less important.

BK is obviously a mature adult- no need to state this, LOL! - I don't actually buy any attempt he may make on this board to misrepresent himself as a fundamentalist.



   

-- Modified on 2/6/2005 10:15:17 AM