OK Mari, come out, come out, where ever you are.

All of my posts are about police EXCESSIVE FORCE in (1) police –citizen encounters; and (2) police arrests and stops where the suspect resists arrest ,or does not follow orders.

It sounds like you are suggesting that a problem, no matter how small or statistically irrelevant, can still be considered a "systemic" problem. Did I miss something here, or is that the gist of your point?

"... the 'best available data' shows no systemic  problem in {(1) police –citizen encounters; and (2) police arrests and stops where the suspect resists arrest ,or does not follow orders.}"

And if my tone was argumentative, please excuse me.  This truly is a complex area to look at, let alone analyze.  Guessing that is one reason why we are having a problem fixing it.

out of 35 fatal police shootings last year, nine were blacks.  Historically speaking, black officers shoot more blacks that white officers.  Saying white officers shooting blacks is a systemic problem is just bullshit.  There were over 3000 blacks shot in Chicago last year by other blacks.  Why is no one outraged about that?  

-- Modified on 6/8/2020 4:15:42 AM

I was just confused as to why you shifted from excessive force to police racism.
Unlike the excessive force inquiry where the best available data sheds light on the question however imperfect that data may be,  there is no best available data on police racism.  

see if the numbers fit my gut feel.  Clearly, we all have heard of instances where racism played a part in a police officers' behavior.  Do we have a real problem or not?  I think we do.  Have heard it quite often from many who I trust, have seen examples on TV, read about it in the paper, and even heard about racism you've experienced (can't remember if it was at the hands of a cop).  Politics aside, my "gut" tells me we have a problem.  And remember, I love the police.  The breakdown could well be in the way we capture and analyze data.

What I question, and I believe Mari's numbers back me up is that "the killing of unarmed black men" is a problem and part of a systemic problem in the nations various police departments.  

to the current DOJ "data".  

reconcile the first and last paragraphs of your post?  Am I missing something?

and focus on systemic behavior, police have some serious issues to deal with. Digging into the DOJ numbers, you'll find:

at a time, when the topic of systemic racism in our police departments was front and center.  If you did not "communicate" as much, you definitely implied it.

apparently you gleaned it from some research, somewhere.  Seems actionable to me.  Am not naive enough to think you are the only person who was able to come to these conclusions.   Am not lacking objectivity and also guess police departments everywhere are trying to address these problems.

...since you provided us without a link. LOL

sticking strickly with the excessive force inquiry, let’s look at this one:

either your ignorance, or covertly racist perspective.

Welcome to the racist club! Hoods are mandatory at the meeting tomorrow. You know, bc of the COVID thing. lol

entire premise is based solely upon data collected, specifically related to police use of "excessive force?"  What kind of valid conclusions, do you believe this, important, but single-dimensional event, can draw?

number and and, again, the excessive force number would have to be way smaller since the police are permitted to use force.  Zen is talking about the DOJ numbers in the link I provided (I think) so that is why he did not post the link. You can find that in my first reply to him.

you are either too stupid to know your post, feebly attempts to cloud reality, or you know, and will desperately do/say anything to divert attention away from your racist views.

Did you miss the point of my reply to you, Mari?  Isn't solely relying on "excessive force" statistics, myopic.  Wouldn't that allow us to base, broad, far reaching conclusions, on just one type of behavior?  What conclusions should we, fairly be able to draw about, overall systemic problems, not adequately addressed by this one metric?

All of the posts have been about whether the “best available  data” shows a systemic excessive force problem. That data does not address race at all. We know 8%  of excessive force complaints were sustained but we don’t know if those complaints were white cop on black suspect, or white cop on white suspect. And the first time you mentioned "police racism," I said  Stop. So I don’t see how I could have implied it.  

I just dug into the same DOJ numbers a bit more deeply.

so I post when I get a chance, and I'll dig into numbers when I get a chance.  

But you have also said you wont engage. All I was asking is if you are going to make a point, defend it, but you are doing so now, so no probs.  

“Doesn’t this mean your entire premise is based solely upon data collected, specifically related to police use of "excessive force?"  

the thing about bad information is that it misinforms ALL sides of the debate. Yours and mine alike. It creates false choices.  

where do you get 35?

...everything.  He makes shit up so it fits the point he's trying to make in his post.  And he doesn't post links to back up his claims because he knows he's bullshitting.  It's simple - he's a pathological liar.  This is going to be his excuse for saying 35 when it was really 1100:

but it's most likely that he meant "unarmed" people killed by police, which according to the info I have found is not exactly 35, but it's pretty darn close.

but damn, don't label me left or right over a single issue. Unless... how did you know that I'm left-handed?

know he is NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer (just like Trump).  Maybe he is doing the best he can and asked for input from one of the attendant's at his nursing home.