"Hamas Says Israel Wants To Topple It."
No, really? Is that a "slam dunk" conclusion?
And what about this gem from PA PM Haniya : "the Israeli military escalation complicates matters and makes it more difficult."
Well, whatever the faults of the Pallys, a rush to judgement doesn't appear to be one. At least not here.
The last two paragraphs also make for interesting reading.
Hamas being in power does more damage to their cause than any of the blood libel bullshit propaganda the Arabs have drenched the world with like so much camel crap.
The Arabs living in the disputed territories elected a terrorist organization to lead them.
They are feasting on the fruits of their choices.
They have had HUNDREDS of opportunities for peaceful co-existence with the Jews and Israel going back to 1949. Each time, they have chosen to drive the Jews into the sea. Each time, they themselves end up with the bitter taste of seawater in their bellies. They simply don't learn.
Is it because they are stupid, or just so filled with hate they can't see how they continue to castrate themselves just so they can show you first hand how big and round their balls are. Meanwhile they teach their children to hate and kill Jewish children in their cribs.
By putting Hamas in charge, the dispossessed Arabs living in the disputed territories elected a government in a State of War with Israel.
The fact Israel continues to participate in this diplomatic farce is a testament to their true desire for peace.
you know damned well they have no desire for peaceful co-existence with Israel in any form, or the Jews in any event. Why else are Jews prohibited from travel within the Arab world?
Jewish engineers are commonplace in the petroleum industry worldwide... except for Arab countries.
Did you know a conscious effort was made to insure no Jewish soldiers wound up in Iraq? Pretty damned impossible, considering the big picture logistics of troop deployment. The Jews who WERE assigned to go to Iraq were counseled to hide their Jewishness.
So let's call a spade a spade, and terrorists terrorists.
Hamas wanted to pick a fight. Well, they got one.
Now they're getting their asses kicked. Boo-fucking-hoo. A Salaam Aleikum. Kus O'Mahkh.
Never Again
and some are even "fact-based" which will no doubt please Riem, with his exacting standards, to no end.
I'm all for calling a spade a spade, truth in advertising, etc...
Unlike you, however, I'm anxious to apply this test to BOTH sides, not just to the atrocious Arabs. You, I'm sure, will quickly start to shout about Arab terroris, Arab anti-Semitism, The Holocaust, Holocaust Denial, Xtian Fundies, Patrick Buchanan etc... When all else fails, personal insults always seems to be at your fingertips.
So, how 'bout it? How much truth re your Israeli buddies are you willing to stand?
First up -- the acidental artillery strike on the Pally picnic two weeks ago? Or maybe the murder of Rachel Corrie? Or the activities of Jonathan
Pollrd? How about the USS Liberty? AIPAC activities? Name your poison.
Doc, c'mon, the world waits for some truth, even though it's the type you like to remain buried. Even if it's not favorable toward your precious political kinsmen and coreligionists.
PS. Check tomorrow's NYTimes for an intersting political advertisemsnt. Even if you miss it, I'll try to post it for the edification of the Board.
is something along the lines that for every incident by Israelis, there's 10 by the various Arabs. But, who's counting?
I gotta admit distaste for people who are always fighting about something, even though I realize it only takes one asshole to force a fight. And yeah, I don't see any excuse for the USS Liberty, and I don't blame its bitter sailors, but you know what? There's always a hell of a lot of unknown soldiers, and bitter ones, and it comes with the job, and as a nation, we've settled it. And no, I don't blame people (Jewish or Arab) who lobby to protect their relatives in the Mideast, either by policy or individually. Not that I would always or necessarily want to get into somebody else's fight.
The questions I have is, if we can't keep out of it, who are we gonna back? What about this business of sending teenagers into pizza joints to kill themselves and as many civilians as they can? Do I think that's a legitimate weapon of war? Let me see a show of hands - no, don't bother, it's not; it's for one purpose only, and that's to create a legacy of hatred that prolongs war forever.
I will grant, war may be necessary to thin the population for those people who never heard of rubbers. But war is just not my favorite thing, and I don't have sympathy for people who think it's good entertainment.
So if you have to choose among people, are you gonna pick a nation that manages to maintain some semblance of democracy even while at war, one that manages enough technical skill to actually fly aircraft, or are you gonna go with the ones who don't know how to operate machinery?
Look, we already have enough welfare liabilities. I'd like to sit this one out, but if I have to go with somebody, it's not gonna be the ones that subsidize suicide bombers.
You also make cogent points, but you make one mistake -- yuou CAN sit this one out, no matter what AIPAC, the Xtian fundies, Americans For A Safe Israel, Abe Foxman, The NY Post and a whole passel of other unmentionables have told you to the contrary.
There's no pressing survival need at stake which dictates that the US side with Israel, or even the other way around.
I share your distaste i for the Arabs/Moslems/Pallys in most things, but I can also see that my sense of distaste is not sufficient to base US foreign policy choices upon.
I likewise prefer the secular/modern Israeli state to the backward Arab states, but again, this is just not enough upon which to base a plicy.
If the Israelis can continue their overlordship of the Pallys w/o endless, monotonusly regular and absolutely predictable demands and importunings for seemingly limitless supplies of US weapons, $$$, political support, propaaganda, and all the rest, I say more power to them.
But they can't, and that's my point -- there's nothing at stake there for me as an American. So, as some hollywod vulgarian of yesteryear once said [supposedly] "include me out."
PS. Glad to see you're back after a long absence. your style eminds me a lot of the mysteriously vanished Mister Spock. Coincidence?
Granted that it was a personal tragedy,keep in mind though that the entire plan of attack rested on knocking out Egypt's airpower by a tactical surprise.This called for flying parallel to the sinai coast and coming in from an unexpected direction.As the operation was about to start intelligence reported that a US intelligence ship was cruising along the same route which could have aborted the whole plan since the entire war plan depended on the success of the airstrike.Although it was depicted then as a tragic mistake with apologies, the order to attack the liberty came from the high command.The point is that in war sometimes sh*t happens.Another example is that Churchill knew of the coming attack on Coventry but kept silent about it to prevent the germans from suspecting that their high command code was broken.The military advantages in this case outweighed the tragedy of coventry! As you say sh*t happens.
you have to define the palestinians as suffering from collective masochism or, as C.Krauthammer recently defined, that they're more comfortable with "victimhood" than statehood!They were given a clear choice between mature moderates who want to live and let live and the developmentally arrested Hamasists and they chose the latter! Tough luck for them! In fact it wouldn't be a bad idea if the purpose is to overthrow the Hamas government and install back AND keepin power a Fatah government.This could prove to be an act of mercy that would ultimately save the palestinians from their own suicidal tendencies....
Even for you Riem, you've really let the zionist cat out of the Near Eastern bag!
"IN FACT IT WOULDN'T BE A BAD IDEA IF THE PURPOSE IS TO OVERTHROW THE HAMAS GOVERNMENT AND INSTALL BACK AND KEEP IN POWER A FATAH GOVERNMENT."
You mean those terrorist PLO/Fatah types against whom you normally rail?
You mean those massively corrupt PLO/Fatah types who have ripped off gazillions in int'l financial assistance?
You mean the PLO/Fatah types who indoctrinate youthful Pallys into the evils of all kind of anti-Semetic beliefs? And encourage those tender innocents to become suicide/homicide/martyrdom bombers while they luxuriate in the splendors of Iran and Syria?
So, the devil you knew proved to be a better bargain than the devil you came to know later. Typical. You personify the pro-Israel mindset in this country -- talking constantly out of every side of your mouth, making one extraordinary and contradictory BS claim after another, redefining terms and moving goalposts at will to suit whatever exegencies of the moment seem most pressing and then taking deep umbrage whenever someone has the impertinence to call you on your massive nonsense.
God/Allah/Yahweh I can only hope you are attempting to be humorous or ironic with this. I suggest don't give up your day job, as you're a complete flop at the humor and irony gig.
Careful, advocating the return of Fatah/PLO might cause some to consider YOU an anti-Semite. And you wouldn't want that. I mean, then you'd be no better than me. [Don't get confused -- this is sarcasm here].
Now for the real kicker -- I agree with you, but for massively different reasons. Hamas is just the opposite side of the Likud/Gush Emimien [spelling?] coin, so they're welcome to each other. And to you as well.
And I'm pleased as punch to see how rapidly you developed a sense of humanitarian concern for the hapless Pallys -- ".. an act mercy that would ultimately save the palestinians from their own suicidal tendencies..." Maybe I've been wrong about you Riem ; but I doubt it.
Perhaps the need to save the Pallys from the less-than-benign inentions of your beloved Israelis might occur to you next?
Hey, as long as you're being a humanitarian, how about brainstorming a way of saving the US from our own suicidal tendenciesin the Near East? But somehow, over time, I've come to believe that the welfare of the US is of little concern to you unless it first somehow serves the interests of Israel.
Perhaps you ought to inquire if your beloved Dr. Krauthammer is taking on some new patients.
Really, Riem, this is your ultimate post -- I'll never have to read another syllable of any post by you re the Near East after this one. You've said it all -- unintentionally so.
Its spelled Gush Emunim.
Xiao, I ask you to compare the quotes of the great leaders. To whit:
Gamal Nasser, former Egyptian leader: We will Drive them into the Sea.
Yasser Arafat: We will not rest till every last Jew and every last Zionist has been purged from
Palestine.
Khaled Mashaal, titular head of Hamas: The blood of every last Zionist child will stain their swaddling cloths until they have been wiped from the Earth.
Golda Meir, former Prime Minister of Israel: We can forgive them for killing our children, but we can not forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.
but actions speak louder than words. And the Pally death toll always outruns the Israeli death toll, so...
And I see you made no reference to Riem's defense of the attack on the USS Liberty, which he "justifies" as necessary for the success of Israel's pre-emptive strikes in 1967. I don't know if Riem is an American, but I never thought I'd live to see the day when ANY American would come up with THAT response. Let alone trumpet it so shamelessly and unselfconsciously. Nice company you choose to keep.
Doc, let me put it to you directly -- do YOU accept Riem's interpretation on this point?
Hmmm. You and him ought to remember that what goes around comes around. And as our friend Riem writes, that acion was authorized by the "highest circles" of the Israeli gov't at the time...if this country ever wakes up we'll know exactly where to look for an "explantion."
An astounding sentiment to come across. And right before the 4th of July no less. My comtempt for Riem re that point has become limitless.
This little trick is one day going to be worked to the disasvantage of Israel. I can only imagine the outrage from you and him if/when that occurs.
Speaking of stiring quotes, what about Rafi Etian's [spelling?] little gem about how Israel's unilateral actions on the West Bank will reduce the Pallys to the status of "...drugged cockroaches in a bottle"?
And what about the words of yet another Israeli Nobel Peace Prize winner, that of Y. Rabin, who said circa 1988 re the 1st Intifada that the goal of the IDF would be "...to use force, might, beatings...to break their bones..." to put down the Pally uprising?
And what about the immortal words of that other Israeli winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, Menachem Begin, appros the Israeli-complicit massacre of the Pallys in Beirut in 09/82, "Goyim kill goyim, and they blame the Jews"? Whew. Wouldn't want them to be victims of false accusations, would we?
What? Some quotes YOU'D like to forget? I don't blame yer -- they don't exactly help to build your case for breathless worship of the beleagured but plucky and valiant Israelis.
Yep, good old Golda -- the Israelis seem collectively heartbroken over the things necessary to say and to do to keep their medicore, middling malefactor state up and running. And since you believe this, can they next interest you in some beachfront property in the Negev...?
All of this, of courese would be of little consequence to me except 4 decades of political leadership in Washington, has elected to hitchhike with a crazed and out-of-control reckless driver. I'm just looking for a moment to jump out of the backseat.
let's wish him well and hope that the swinging back door doesn't hit his a$$ on the way out.
Violent and irrationally angry man in definite need of restraint and possibly medication!
STAT !!! STAT !!!
PS. Simple commomn sense tells you that if the car is moving foward, when I jump out of the back seat the continued motion of the car would be away from my self-ejected body, thereby making impossible the car door hitting me in my a$$ [whatever the hell that's about?] on the way out.
I just hope I can jump out before Bibi, Natan and the rest drive the car off of a very tall cliff at a very high speed. Oopps!! Think I'm too late. Very, very rocky landing imminent I fear.
Now, if the car is moving backwards, your scenario is possible and plausible. Moving backwards -- sounds about right for the net result of the little trip Israel and AIPAC constantly treat the US to in the Near East.
Happy motoring ?? !!
about our nemesis X-the polemicist who just wants to entertain us with mental acrobatics.I was referring to Erich Fromm's seminal work on social pathology and in his twisted mind sees fault in also quoting a similar conclusion by a pro-israel "zionist" C.Krauthammer!....Granted that this isn't "The Humor Board" and that he is a humor basketcase the guy nontheless fancies being a "fu**er's board" Dave letterman(oops joe lenoe). I'm glad that I finally achieved my objective by his promise not to read my posts.Hope you have a similar good luck!
... it's prisoner back, and getting the military wing Hamas under control. Remember, Israel created Hamas.
for reminding us that Israel created Hamas. This little fact seems to have gone down the memory hole, especialy amongst those who most vociferously espose the cause of israel at the drop of a ... hat.
... it's prisoner back, and getting the military wing Hamas under control. Remember, Israel created Hamas.