Unlike all the civilized countries in the world, 20% of Americans have no health care coverage.  Nearly half of these are low-income African-Americans and Hispanics.  Health care reform means the taxpayers who are 90% White, have to pay for people of color getting free health care.

The vote in Massachusetts shows that Whites just don't want to pay for these people's health care.  They would rather have them get sick and die.

There is no black vs white involved... It's called working folks don't want what they have earned and paid for to be fucked up by a minority of folks who choose not to work.

The stupid decisions that folks make that lead them to have less in life than others is a tough learning experience for them, but it doesn't mean that somebody else who made good decisions must now pay for their stupidity.

95% of the uninsured work full-time.  Businesses have more and more uninsured temporary workers than ever, with no health care of course.  Full-time jobs  with full benefits go to White people first.

Whites in Massachusetts passed a state plan that covered all the poor - Hispanic, black, white, etc.

Also, whites in Mass voted overwhelmingly for Obama. So don't play race card.

Several years ago, they showed that they wanted to provide health care for everyone when they adopted the current Mass paln.
If your post is true, they never would have done it then.

What happened was they saw that the plan wasn't working. It wasn't providing well for everyone. It wasn't cutting costs for everyone like it was supposed to.

The reason this failed in not that people aren't concerned. In a state where they were provably concerned, it failed.  The reason is they wanted something that might work.

They tried Plan A and it failed. The current proposal is too much like what Mass already had.

Come up with Plan B.

It's quit correct Mass. health plan drives up costs for White people.  Somebody has to pay for the uninsured, and it's the White taxpayers.  In this economy, Mass. White people just got sick and tired of this and voted for a guy promising to destroy nationwide health care reform.  It's no different than the California bigots who voted in Prop 8 when they got sick and tired of homos and dykes getting married.

I am white. I don't give two fucking shits what color you are.

This is the problem: If EVERYONE was given the CHANCE they are quaranteed in life,in the Constitution ),there wouldn't be a need for my neighbor having to pony-up for MY health insurance. That's the end of that fucking arguement.

Quit pointing your fucking finger at any particular COLOR. Racism exists within ALL ethnic groups. Go piss on Al Sharpton already.

DROP YOUR FUCKING RACISM BAITING BULLSHIT!!!!!!!


Congatulations on punching my card for the day.

You are out in space if you think the Government can run healthcare.  The politicians only care about votes.  If you understood the mess Medicare is in you would back away in hurry.  The reason health care is screwed up is that Medicare rates are so low health insures need to charge more or the Doctors and Hospitals would be out of business.  The MAYO clinic has stopped taking medicare because of the low reinbursments.  Look at ant country with Socialized medicine and you will know why everyone comes here for medical care

I've known quite a few homeless people in my day. None of them choose it voluntarily.

The people who make it to the top are almost always the most crooked and corrupt (just look at Washington and Wall Street). Blaming people for being moral enough not to engage in such activity is kinda, well, insane.

The vast majority of all welfare in this country goes to protect rich people. So have some prospective.

...but if you're a conservative, expect to be pissed off.

Full disclosure, I am a white male.

I was also raised in a very racist household. When I was in elementary school (in the 80's, mind you) my mother wanted to join the Klan.

I was told at a very young age that if I ever dated someone who wasn't white, my parents would disown me. They weren't kidding.

It took me nearly 20 years to drill my own racism out of my head, and it's still a continuing process.

After a lot of soul searching on the topic, here is the conclusion I have come to. If you are white, and you live in the United States, then you ARE a racist. Period. End of story. You ARE a racist.

You may not know that you're a racist. You may be in denial about your own racism. You may not fully conceptualize that your behavior is racist. But you ARE racist.

Racism is a continuing problem in this country, and it will continue to be a problem until the day we all die.

And what's more, racism has a natural and biological origin. Anyone who knows psychology, knows what heuristics are. And heuristics are the cause of racism, particularly the representativeness heuristic.

Neural networks are a funny thing. In the wild, mental short cuts were necessary to aid in survival. If a large brown animal (like a bear) had attacked your family, you would naturally develop a fear of large brown animals. Or even brown animals. Or anything brown that moves.

It is the same reason why people have a fear of flying. Many consider it incredibly dangerous. The reason why is because the only time they see a plane on the news is when it has crashed.

If every bird you had ever seen could fly, then you would assume that all birds can fly. If the only bird you'd ever seen was an ostrich, then you would assume that no bird can fly, and all of them are huge fuckers that can kick your ass.

These mental shortcuts help aid in survival. It makes you react quicker to real dangers in the world. But these shortcuts can be falty. Racism is one of those falts.

There are real economic problems caused by racism. Blacks have been kept at the bottom of the economic ladder for the last 500 years. You don't recover from that over one or two generations, or even ten. Blacks built this country from nothing, and they were robbed of their labor doing so. And when that happens, one generation cannot pass their wealth onto a following generation.

And this problem will not be solved until the distribution of wealth in this country stops putting blacks at a disadvantage.

We're farther along to solving this problem, at least socially, then we ever have been before, but the fight against racism is NOT over yet.

-- Modified on 1/20/2010 8:54:37 AM

you would realize that the problems with health care in this country are far more complicated and complex than that!

Aaaahhhh, I see you are familiar with the thesis of one of my books... thanks for reading...

Of course those in power or wealth support welfare ( within limits ) in order to keep the recipients from a revolt that would then jeopardize their status.  There are other reasons too...  But there is a big difference between supporting a hand out, one that doesn't effect what you have, except that you give away some money, and for example the healthcare issue where what you have can be fucked up.  Big differnece.  

The OP chose to blame race and that is absurd.   I chose to put it in the context of workers vs non workers by choice.  You chose to add those caught up in crap through no fault of their own, and I agree.  There are some who deserve the help of their country.  But the thing here is that we pretty much have programs in place for them.  Granted it's not as much as is probably needed, but that could be fixed fairly reasonably but only if the recipients are sincere in being productive members of society.  If not, those with money are not gonna support giving away hand outs to those who refuse to help themselves.

Too much rambling here... sorry.

"I was told at a very young age that if I ever dated someone who wasn't white, my parents would disown me. They weren't kidding."


  You say you aren't racist yet some of your posts definitely have racist undertones IMO..
 Have you ever had a Black civvy GF?
 Just wondering if she broke your heart.

But Brown had actually backed Romney's health care bill which is similar to obamacare.
I believe that voters are fed up with Obama, and the vote had reflected that.

Now, do Whites want to pick up the tab for illegals and lazy blacks? No, of course not.
Do working Blacks want to pick up the tab? No, they don't either.
This election had nothing to do with race.

I do not consider myself to be a pure conservative, but your comments do provoke an emotion in me just the same!!!

I am sorry that you were raised in a racist household, I was not.  I'm sure the next thing you will try to tell me is that you were raised in the south.  I was never told such horse crap in regards to dating anyone.  Again, I am sorry that you were.

In short, all though I am not so naive to argue that racism does not still exists in the country I most certainly will argue your blanket condemnation that ALL whites are racist.  Are you also going to claim that ALL blacks, ALL hispanics etc. are racist?

I will agree with your last statement that:  We're farther along to solving this problem, at least socially, then we ever have been before, but the fight against racism is NOT over yet.  But IMO the term redistribution of wealth is an absurd concept.   It implies that only one race has wealth, and while I would admit that the percentages are distorted, it certainly is not the answer to solving racism.  Only acceptance and EQUAL opportunity can do that.

But at this point I believe I will back out of this thread, as all I can see coming is a "train wreck"!!!

Labeling all uninsured Blacks "lazy Blacks" -- when the shameful truth is that 90% of these have jobs without benefits.  Doesn't take much for this venom to come out.

This is racist horseshit of the worst kind.

the problem with the HCR bill, as is, is it does not really provide for health care... to those without it..... nor does it address the issue of escalating health care costs..... or a decline of interest by those qualified to enter medicine... or a host of other issues... and in fact, it INCREASES The cost of insurance... which would mean MORE folks (I might add, both black, white, blue and green) would be uninsured........   really get real.

AND BETTER FRICKIN HEALTH CARE COVERAGE THAN MOST WHITE SENIOR CITIZENS>.....

Another nifty little overused cliche.  Of course racism exists in all groups but the implications are quite different when it originates from within a majority group, ie white Americans.  Maybe it makes you feel more comfortable to think that it cuts both ways, and that people like Al Sharpton are to blame, but that's all bullshit.  Pull your head out of your ass.  YOU not giving "two fucking shits what color" someone is doesn't have anything to do with it.

Probably a bit of an oversimplification, but it certainly does illustrate an of ignored problem.  See how you pissed everyone off here by mentioning racism?

The point I am making is not based on personal acquaintances, but rather on statistics.  It is a simple arithmetic fact that the proportion of Blacks and Hispanics amongst the uninsured is higher than in the population at large.  The uninsured is almost entirely composed of hardworking, full-time employees who receive no health benefits.

...instead flying into fits of denial whenever racism was mentioned or scapegoating Al Sharpton, this country would be much further along as you said.  I appreciate you having such a sensible and sincere approach to the issue, and expressing that here.  For what it's worth, I think that numbers of people who feel like you are increasing which does offer some glimmer of hope.  Though we'll probably both be dead before it actually takes a meaningful effect.  Ha!  

Thanks for the reply.

See, this is another example of how simple you are.  You think it's just a matter of logging on and giving a company your CC number to make it happen?  Like buying a VIP membership on TER?  Fuck, Snow, problem solved.  Point, click, and you've got insurance.

You're a moron to the infinite power.

no idea what color everyone is.I couldn't give a shit)can't get onto the sports board.

Not to mention.it gives Zorff someone to harrass.

Especially as the numerical plurality of poor people are white.

Wait -- MAYBE it is racism against white people!

Ah -- shit -- just make sense already. This isn't about race. It's about self defense.

The P&R menagerie is already full dammit! Every time we feed another new troll, they just put down roots and never leave!

re-read my post. In it, I say that if you're white and you live in the U.S. then you are racist. I am white and I live in the U.S. Therefore...

never had a civvy GF who wasn't white. to a certain degree I felt sorry for my mom, so I couldn't really do that to her.

And yes, I am making a blanket statement about whites. But I will say that I have yet to meet a white person who was not racist on some level. Some are just more aware of their racism than others.

I was raised in the metropolitan DC area. If you want to call northern VA the south, then I was raised in the south, but personally I don't think that counts. My mom was born in Texas, so that is part of it...that and she was born in the middle of the Depression.

I won't go into wealth distribution because that's an economic question that I've beat to death here. But I agree wtih your point on equal opportunity.

When a white man can have a conversation with a black man, and have to be reminded of each other's race because it hadn't crossed their minds, then that will be a big step forward. At least it was for me.

politics and religion.

Are you under the impression that it's actually about trying to limit the number of opinions?

for shame, Sin.

the whole point is "GO EARN IT"!!!

Of course you need money to obtain these things.

Guess What, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to earn your OWN MONEY!!

Ayn Rand had you guys pegged

Moochers & Looters

I believe the gentleman was referring to the fact that cost of health insurance isn't the only hurdle to obtaining it.  This may have been why he insulted you.

but faulty from a reasoning standpoint and again seems to be designed to provoke by making an absurd inference from statistics.

    I don't want to pay for the uninsured to get health care either. And a significant portion of the uninsured are blacks. Does that mean I'm a racist? No, it means I'm me first, cheap, not a charitable person. Don't want to pay for the poor whites either with equal fervor -not my job.

   Further, assuming that the Massachusetts vote was solely about healthcare is more speculation than assumption. And assuming that those folks would rather the poor get sick and die is of course ridiculous.

     I imagine they are just like me - it's not their job and they would prefer someone else take care of the problem.

Please note however that the American view you are expressing makes us alone amongst the top 25 countries of the world.  All the others have nationalized health care paid by the taxpayer, just like nationalized education paid by the taxpayer.  Just be aware that your being admittedly "cheap and uncharitable" has put this country on the primitive level of places like Myanmar and Zimbabwe, where the poor can just die of gangrene in an open sewer, deprived of a doctor's care.

That's YOUR America, my friend.  Right, America the Cheap, America the Uncharitable.  Think about that next time you pledge allegiance.

Well, lets see if you are correct about that

Just be aware that your being admittedly "cheap and uncharitable" has put this country on the primitive level of places like Myanmar and Zimbabwe, where the poor can just die of gangrene in an open sewer, deprived of a doctor's care.

      That would indeed be disturbing if it were true. But you seem to be overlooking that the United States has  programs in place that make your analogy to Myanmar and Zimbabwe completely invalid.

       First, there is Medicaid. Medicaid  covers health care expenses for low-income families, children, seniors and the disabled. Most of the benefits are free, and typically cover doctor and hospital services, lab and x-ray charges, family planning, hearing aids, eyeglasses, chiropractic, maternity and prescriptions, among other medical services. To qualify, you must be a US citizen and meet income requirements.


       Second, there is Medicare. To qualify for Medicare, you must be a US citizen over the age of 65 and eligible for Social Security benefits. If you are not yet 65, you may still qualify if you have received Social Security disability at least two years or if you suffer from end-stage renal failure.

      Third, there is CHIPS. CHIP is a state health insurance program specifically designed to provide health care 
coverage for children of working families. For example, your income is too high to qualify for Medicaid, but you still cannot afford to buy health insurance for your children, they may qualify for CHIP coverage. Chip benefits cover a whole range of medical services, including preventive care, prescription drugs, lab tests and X-rays, among other medical services.

       Fourth, there is EMTALA. Covered emergency rooms are required to diagnose and stabilize anyone presenting with an emergency condition.

      So that poor guy suffering from gangrene would get free treatment if taken to any covered ER. Then we would see if he would qualify for any of these other programs.

      Yes, there are good arguments for national health care insurance. But superimposing my failings on our country is not one of them.

And I'm gonna give Willywonka drubbing too. Just for good measure.

But Marikod just beat the fuck out of you just now really good!!!!.

OK, here goes.   The USA IS  THE MOST CHARITABLE COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD!!!!

And now I'm gonna slap the piss out of you Willywonka.

YOU CALLED THOMAS SOWELL AND UNCLE TOM!!!!!

You're white and you called him an Uncle Tom because he's a Republican. Is there some law that says blacks can't be Republican?  I suppose Condie Rice was an Auntie Tom and Clarence Thomas must be an Uncle Tom too in you're opinion.

Well guess what.  Thomas Sowell has a PhD. from the U of Chicago and was mentored by......MILTON FRIEDMAN.  THE BEST ECONOMIST THAT EVER LIVED!!!!!!   Thomas Sowell has written 64 BOOKS!!!!  Thomas Sowell writes a weekly column.  And you should read it.  SO THERE.

having spent 20 years of my life in the service I am deeply offended when people use general labels like all white folk are racist, white folks don't want to pay for..... Race has nothing to do with it. I just neve3r bought into the whole communist approach that because I worked hard and busted my ass I am evil and have to turn over what I worked for to those that chose not work as hard.  You  had the same choice I did, most folk do.  They can sign up, put in twenty years and get wonderful government run health-care. But most don't.  Most folks have this sense of entitlement, that they are owed something.  Guess what, they aren't.  And I don't want to hear about how they were oppressed I come from an Irish Jewish background, and we wrote the book on being oppressed, like 4 thousand years of folks trying to enslave / kill off / kick out all of us.    


You are entitled to your opinion, I spent many years defending your right to be able to have it and several of my friends died to defend it.  But also remember you are free to leave and if this is so bad of a country, maybe you should

If I am paying for your house or health care shouldn't that person come over and do the chores around my house?  Seems only fair

I didn't say anyone should be limited. The original poster is free to post all he wants, as are you, as am I. However, his right to post stupid shit does not oblige the rest of us to encourage or validate him wtih a response.

everyone out. Especially zombies.

He don't want to mess with the kosher cajun,  very bad medicine

You get three hots and a cot plus health and dental.  Of course you have to defend an idiots right to be stupid but look on the bright side you get to see the world

Yeah, cuz we all know all whites are wealthy...i mean, a white person cant be poor

-- Modified on 1/20/2010 6:38:11 PM

WOW. didn't realize that only whites paid taxes.
My bad.

living in all those trailer parks across the south?  Hey there Bill Joe Bobbie Dupree, you need to move on outta there, you are rich.

So, these blacks are working. That means they are paying taxes too. Your original post assumed only whites pay taxes.
In a nutshell, you're an idiot, only here to stir up shit.

And that sucks.  I think it is an evil conspiracy by all those racist folks with the high end health care plans who are just trying to keep the poor working masses down by keeping them in poor health and over worked.  

It is either that or Liorr broke it.  Can't find any way to blame it on Bush or Global Warming so Liorr it is

Idiots like Manndingo kill me...as if there is some office someplace handing out money to whites, just for being white.
I wish it were true. Cuz Id be in line...lol

I have heard the same crap about "Your Jewish? You must be rich, cause all you jews got money right?"  Yeah sure, the secret is out and that is why none of us work.  

It seems like the morons are winning. Just watch Jersey Shore, if that is the future leaders of the nation we are so totally fucked

I don't believe that at all! If you are in this industry for about 200 a month you can have your own coverage. If you aren't wheelchair bound
and even if you are there are jobs for the disabled.
I'm tired of hearing this I pay into my own just like you and everyone else should .

When are people going to grow up and take care of their own? Why should anyone reguardless of color
pay for someone elses health care when we have our
own to take care of ? Jesus give me a break .

I continue to be amazed by the incredibly low level of discourse in this thread.  What's next -- "String 'em up!" ...?

1. We have a very efficient corporate culture in this country and businesses have embraced the concept of temporary workers with enthusiasm.  This is an important factor in why GDP growth here exceeds the Eurozone.  

2. These temporary workers get no benefits, and they are virtually excluded from all the programs you cited.  

3.Blacks and Hispanics are a much larger portion of these temporary workers than in the general population.  

4. Unlike the 25 most advanced countries in the world, 20% of our citizens have no health insurance.  

If you are a very sick temporary worker and you cannot afford a regular doctor, you certainly will feel like you are in Myanmar or Zimbabwe.

are employed, or even if you are not a US citizen (if I recall correctly, ER doctors are not permitted to ask for proof of citizenship). Medicare is, of course, available to temporary workers over 65.

       I'm  not sure about Medicaid or CHIPS. There definately are eligibility requirements but I don't know if being a temp disqualifies you.

       So while I agree with you that national health insurance has merit (if we could figure out how to pay for it, I can't agree with any characterization of our nation as being uncharitable. Some would say we are charitable to a fult.

You're pitching out various scotch-tape-and-bubble-gum approaches.  An uninsured person with a painful chronic problem where no blood is spurting knows he will get no ER help.  Plus, our ER system is taxed heavily nationwide with uninsured people piling in for small issues, rather than stopping by a clinic where they could get appropriate treatment.

Yes, national health care has merit, and it has to be paid for by tax revenues.  They may tax you, your children, Goldman Sachs, cosmetic surgeons, but they will have to tax somebody.

Massachusetts has a state-run medical plan paid by state taxes.  No doubt it gives some security to the state's uninsured.  A certain percentage of our population is "cheap and uncharitable."  Without a doubt, 100% Massachusetts' "cheap and uncharitable" voters cast their votes for Cosmoboy on Tuesday.  His campaign promise was to use a 41%  Senate minority to destroy national health insurance.

it IS a function of getting up off your ass, getting a job, and paying for your health care.

as to hispanics.... lemme guess, you're counting the illegals?  and yea, they are ILLEGAL

as to "hardworking, full-time..... etc" I don't disagree, which is what makes this health care bill so onerous... it fails to provide health care (at an affordable rate) for these very folks!  and in fact would fine them for NOT being covered.

Since that is my schuls turn to hold and count all the wealth, this week it is at a Conservative schul over in the Peoples Democratic Socialist Republic of Maryland.

Deny them health care to weaken them

Deny them good schools to keep them uneducated so they remain in the under class

Brain wash them to think the liberals really give a shit about them (Are the folks in Anacostia any better off after how many years of electing Marion Barry?)

Convince them that hard work and responsibility is for suckers and that they are entitled to whatever they want for free

and when their brains have been turned into a gelatinous mass that resembles lutefisk, turn them all into Soylent Green so we can feed the third world