1.. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
 Fascist regimes tend to make constant
 use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs,
 and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere,
 as are flag symbols on clothing and in public
 displays.                

2.. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
 Because of fear of enemies and the
 need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
 persuaded that human rights can be ignored in
 certain cases because of "need." The people tend to
 look the other way or even approve of torture,
 summary executions, assassinations, long
 incarcerations of prisoners, etc.                  

3.. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
 The people are rallied into a unifying
 patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a
 perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or
 religious minorities; liberals; communists;
 socialists, terrorists, etc.
                 
4.. Supremacy of the Military
 Even when there are widespread
 domestic problems, the military is given a
 disproportionate amount of government funding, and
 the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
 military service are glamorized.
                 
5.. Rampant Sexism
 The governments of fascist nations
 tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under
 fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made
 more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is
 homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national
 policy.
                 
6.. Controlled Mass Media
 Sometimes the media are directly
 controlled by the government, but in other cases,
 the media are indirectly controlled by government
 regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and
 executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is
 very common.
                 
7.. Obsession with National Security
 Fear is used as a motivational tool by
 the government over the masses.
                 
8.. Religion and Government are Intertwined
 Governments in fascist nations tend to
 use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
 to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and
 terminology is common from government leaders, even
 when the major tenets of the religion are
 diametrically opposed to the government's policies
 or actions.
                 
9.. Corporate Power is Protected
 The industrial and business
 aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones
 who put the government leaders into power, creating
 a mutually beneficial business/government
 relationship and power elite.
                 
10.. Labor Power is Suppressed
 Because the organizing power of labor
 is the only real threat to a fascist government,
 labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are
 severely suppressed.
                 
11.. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
 Fascist nations tend to promote and
 tolerate open hostility to higher education, and
 academia. It is not uncommon for professors and
 other academics to be censored or even arrested.
 Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and
 governments often refuse to fund the arts.
                 
12.. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
 Under fascist regimes, the police are
 given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The
 people are often willing to overlook police abuses
 and even forego civil liberties in the name of
 patriotism. There is often a national police force
 with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations
                 
13.. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
 Fascist regimes almost always are
 governed by groups of friends and associates who
 appoint each other to government positions and use
 governmental power and authority to protect their
 friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
 fascist regimes for national resources and even
 treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen
 by government leaders.
                 
14.. Fraudulent Elections
 Sometimes elections in fascist nations
 are a complete sham. Other times elections are
 manipulated by smear campaigns against or even
 assassination of opposition candidates, use of
 legislation to control voting numbers or political
 district boundaries, and manipulation of the media.
 Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries
 to manipulate or control elections.

Does any of this sound familiar to you? Think about it.

I think a mojority of those descriptions could also apply to the US during WW-II under Roosevelt.

The one you forgot to include was that there was in Facist governments there was no [ossibility for people to express dissenting views nor was there any protection for those who bravely expressed dissent.

While may have tried to pin the Fascism label on the current admin, it doens't hold water.

You wouldn't know facism if it bit your balls off. If you think the USA is a facist state, you are mentally ill. Seriously, and this is coming from a Gore/Kerry voter, all you "Bush is a fascist" folks really need to seek help. Some of you are almost completely dissociative in your ranting.

These "oh, we're so oppressed under a facist state!' folks are completely disconnected from reality. They think the threat to the West from Islamic fundamentalism is just some made up fantasy. I live in the US, and there's loads of things I dislike about it. But you know what? They all existed before Bush was even in politics.

It's ideology, and I don't mean just having an opinion on something. I mean the kind where you toe a certain political line no matter what. Ideology is a debilitating mental illness.

Ten year ago, I had a guy at work once who was a hardcore member of one of the major political parties. He was way off base on some issue, and not in a political way but in a straight forward fact way. he was just ill informed. So I some proof the next day from reputable sources. Pictures, charts and piles of data. I sat and watched him read it and I could almost see his mind going through these... contortions in an attempt to make the real data somehow fit into his deranged world view. He still didn't change his point of view despite being shown it was based on false data. It's was literally like a guy claiming the sky is green, being brought outside to see the blue sky, and he claims it's green again once back inside.

It was one of the most frightening things I have ever seen, and I generally avoid all political and topical discussions now aside from infrequent observations like this. 99% of humanity have world outlooks that are based purely on myth, fantasy and lies.

I read kirkorian's respsonse.

Not much else to say, except that I may have mistaken past responses as hatred when in reality it has been true paranoia.

And MasterZed, you should give attribution to your sources.

A novelist, Lawrence Britt wrote that..
He also ended it by saying this...

"Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics."

Your English indicates you are a foreign born.  Now, which fasict state did you come from?  Don't expect the same shade of fascism here as in well entrenched ones, commone in less developed countries. BIG difference!  

Go read 1984 first before insulting well read and intelligent people on this board.  I am assuming you can figure out what 1984 is.

Master Zed, thanks God you are back!

At any level of representative government, you have the potential for Fascism according to those descriptors. Part of it depends upon your perspective (is the glass half full or half empty).

What's the difference between national pride, patriotism, and the observation about Fascism? It's not the flag waving or the pride, it's the underlying motivations in part.

Consider the Olympic games during the height of the cold war-lots of US team support, while not a hatred for the USSR, there was still a lot of flag waving. Was that Fascist?

Remember Waco and the craziness in Florida with the Cuban boy?

Many conservatives would cite those as examples of the Clinton admin acting in a Fascist way, however, I think those incidents were handled as wellas could be expected. There were legalities that were observed and I accepted the results.

In Waco, ATF was serving a legitimate search warrant. The nutcase with all the weapons could have complied and there would have been no tragedy. The little boy was a sadder issue, however, he had a living parent in Cuba who wanted him back and the custodial rights of parents are still important.

But, taken out of context, both issues could be swayed as a brutal fascist regime exerting it's power-which is bullshit.

Do you know what the word "fiction" means?

Are you familiar with "literature"?

If you did some "research" before opening mouth and inserting foot, you would realize that not only is 1984 a major protest novel (hint-see literature and FICTION), but the author-George Orwell, was a strident, die hard, anti-communist. One of his other books, Animal Farm, was just as blatant an attack on the Soviet Regime.

Neither 1984 nor Animal Farm have any historical detail.....they are fiction...as in created in the mind of the author.

Oh yeah, I've actually talked with former residents of Russia/USSR (which was a fascist regime) and they say life is much better in the US.

So you learned all by yourself that the communist regimes of the 20th century were actually fascists in nature?  I am so proud of you!

I had no idea you actually knew what Animal Farm was!!!

Now, go back and read my original posting, and maybe you learn something!!!

A well educated and enlightened populace in the U.S.  cannot be shepherded into accepting fascism like places such as Armenia, Iran, Chile, and the old Soviet Union.  Am I going over your head again?

You posted a feeble sarcasm and tried to cite an example of fiction as an example of fascism.

And you criticized the poster about his English skills. Well professor, I suppose we cannot all have PhD's in English like you obviously do, however, I found nothing in his post to indicate he was a non-english speaker.

As for your attempts at belittling me, I could respnd succinctly with a "bite me" reply, but that would merely add fuel to your dwindling fire of sanity.

You wrote "

So you learn that all by yourself?
Posted by Attila-D-Hun, 4/27/2005 10:34:54 PM


So you learned all by yourself that the communist regimes of the 20th century were actually fascists in nature?  I am so proud of you!

I had no idea you actually knew what Animal Farm was!!!" In actuality, you have no idea about me at all you pompous ass.

And I did learn something from your post, yet in deference to TER's rules I will refrain from unloading my dragonesque fire breath on your ass.

his ass.  He deserves it!  BTW, Attila-D-Hun's English obviously needs some improvement, as he writes as if English is his second language.  If it isn't, then he needs to go back to school.

-- Modified on 4/28/2005 6:25:05 AM

Well, hopefully I'm not dissociative

But one thing really bugs me around this topic: "Free Speech Zones." Oxymoron or what? Yes, people who disagree with the Bushies are indeed allowed to diagree but only from a safe distance away from the TV cameras? What is this? I thoght strict constructionist, non-judicial activist perspectives held in regard to the interpretation of the U.S. Constitution..."Congress shall make NO law..." maybe I was misinformed on that.

Ditto the Social Security roadshow. The Secret Service has admitted that in at least one instance people who were (1) Democrats (2) holders of legally obtained tickets via their local Republican congressman and (3) having no stated intention of disrupting the proceedings, were summarily given the bum's rush before the Prez arrived, by the local Bush advance team. Outski.
Amazingly, the Secret Service guys met with these folks the next day (this was in Colorado) and short of issuing a formal apology, told them this was SOP. The tip-off?--an anti-Bush bumper sticker when they drove up..stupid liberals, not even smart enough to camouflage themselves like Jeff Gannon and get into the White House press room.
That ain't free speech, guys. If you REALLY believe in what you say--if you TRULY BELIEVE that your vision is the correct one and your programs are the right  way to go--then you should not be afraid of dissent. You should welcome dissent, take it on, and destroy it in the bright light of scrutiny, public debate and opinion. Can anyone with a straight face tell me that this is what is going on here the U.S. today? Jiminy Cricket, Tony Blair has to go up EVERY WEEK before the House of Commons and take his shots. He has to defend his policies and his actions--and he gives every bit as good as he takes. No problemo. Can you IMAGINE that happening here?
This is not strictly anti-Bush, BTW--this imperial presidency BS has been building ever since Vietnam. But it's been honed to a fine art form here and now. It is profoundly anti-democratic. Please, someone tell me that I'm wrong and what the Bushies are doing is in the finest tradition of representative democracy. I tend to believe in my warped liberal mind that it's a beautifully stage-managed craft that tries to create a visual impression that everyone is an enthusiastic supporter of whatever words happen to come out of whichever administration official at that particular moment.