the deleterious[sic] effects of race and class baiting which the left excels in have had a far more devasting impact on far more people than anything I can think of coming from the right.
I guess it depends upon how far out on the extreme we wanna take this though....what's your example?
Dick and Lynn Cheney’s fake outrage over the mention of their daughter in the third Presidential Debate surely must take the prize for worst acting by a public figure in this election.
Last August it was Dick Cheney who “outed” his own daughter so that he could try to show his “softer side.” After the Vice-Presidential Debate, he even brought her and her life partner onto the stage for everyone to see.
If you don’t want you child to become a “political football” you shouldn’t be the first one to pull her out of the bag and kick her.
is "thou shall NOT speak of another's kid in any way that could POSSIBLY be construed as negative."
Howard Fineman of Newsweek (no Bush fan at all) said this about it:
"But do you like one who mentions someone else’s child to make a nasty political point? There were no laughs but gasps in the press room when Kerry noted that Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter, Mary, was a lesbian. It came during a discussion of gay marriage. Now, of course, everyone knows something about Mary—she is open about her sexual orientation and has worked in outreach programs to gays and lesbians, and even brought her partner to the vice-presidential debate in Cleveland.
Still, what was Kerry's point in hauling her into a discussion of the pros and cons of gay marriage? Was he trying to highlight the fact that the vice president doesn't share the president's support for a constitutional amendment defining marriage as only between a man and a woman? Was he trying to say that Cheney should actively OPPOSE it because of his daughter? Cheney and Kerry actually seem to share the same views."
It was a major gaffe, regardless of whether it was an innocent remark or a purposeful ploy to undermine Bush's position on gay-marriage. It's also one of the reasons why I believe Bush won the last debate. Innocent remark or not, Kerry will end up paying for it.
RLTW
The point was being Gay is not a choice.
I do agree it was unnecessary. Btw, Dick Cheney wasn't bothered in the vp debate when her sexuality was mentioned - I believe this may have been what prompted Kerry to decide to mention her - Again, I think it was not necessary.
When it comes down to it, many oppose Bush because of the so called reasons for the INVASION of Iraq, or the economy. In comparison, this ``major gaffe'' is no BFD (IMHO).
Of course the gaffe is no "BFD" to you llcar, that's no suprise at all. But the professionals that were watching from the press room that night were smart enough to recognize it - along with alot of other people also.
Hell, even crazy Maureen Dowd gets it:
"Mr. Kerry showed the bite in his overwhitened, overeager "I'm smarter than you but I'm trying not to show it" grin when he strategically dragged Dick Cheney's gay daughter back into the debate, a dead-wrong thing to do."
Good God, never thought I'd use Maureen Dowd to support an argument.
RLTW
-- Modified on 10/15/2004 12:25:40 PM
What about the VP debate. I didn't hear any outrage from Cheney when Senator ``lightweight'' mentioned Cheney's daughter.
I believe it was sincere and I also believe Kerry was sincere.
I do understand that it was not Kerry's place to ``use'' Cheney's daughter as an example. However, when I hear someone mention someone else is gay, I don't get upset as if that person is being insulted (especially, in the context of a question along the lines of ``do you thing being gay is a choice'').
I believe the message of Kerry's statement was that being gay is not a choice but just someone being themselves. That's it (color me ignorant brown).
And yes, rltw, to me it is no BFD - compared to people dying. I wish I could consider whatever character flaws in Kerry that prompted that mistake as a priority - However, IMHO, the flaws of Bush are far more dangerous ....
LLCAR
Ignorant brown? You seem to have alot of racial hang-ups, llcar.
RLTW
No, I was just going to say ``color me ignorant'' but I threw brown in there cause it's such a pretty color.
I think Cheney is being political- Kerry was well within his rights to bring up the fact that Cheney's daughter probably did not choose her lifestyle- while subtly pointing out that her father goes out of its way to marginalise a weak minority.
I thought it was good-on topic- while making a huge point with no extra words
The Mass Supreme court only pointed out that present law does NOT exclude gays from marriage- you have to go out of your way to discriminate against them- which the GOP's fascist/christian leadership promptly did- the bigots!
I think that there is political gamemanship going on with the Cheney and Kerry camps concerning the issue.
and the poor with full cooperation of the "civil rights industrial complex" and cradle to grave service providers, JJ, AS, et al.
BK
-- Modified on 10/15/2004 9:59:20 PM
Correction- politicians. Any questionable political practice is done by both sides- the GOP just being meaner and more malicious-often effectivley.
the deleterious[sic] effects of race and class baiting which the left excels in have had a far more devasting impact on far more people than anything I can think of coming from the right.
I guess it depends upon how far out on the extreme we wanna take this though....what's your example?
-- Modified on 10/15/2004 2:04:24 PM
This time Kerry didn't have any major verbal slip-ups as bad as the "Global Test" comment which the Bush Camp had such a field day with after the last debate.
So what do they do? They try to latch on to something (anything) he said that can be misconstrued, distorted and spun out of control to attack him in the post-debate media blitz.
Kerry is being flamed for, essentially, making a comment no less controversial than saying that "I *think* our children want to be free"
God Forbid
The radical Alan Keyes, who will be lucky to get 15% of the Illinois Senate vote, made these stupid remarks about Mary Cheney
"After saying homosexuality is "selfish hedonism," Keyes was asked if that made Mary Cheney "a selfish hedonist."
"Of course she is," Keyes replied. "That goes by definition."
Where was Lynn Cheney's outrage over this statement??
I to, think it was fake anger, just meant to rally her base...
-- Modified on 10/15/2004 4:49:43 PM
even HEARD those remarks. Whereas Kerry's comments were made in front of an international audience with 10's of millions of people watching.
And even if they did hear them, Keyes did not bring her up. He was asked specifically about her. It is the person asking the question that was the politicizing scumbag.
Lastly, think of it in hobbyist terms. we don't badmouth fellow hobby buddies to curry favor with chicks unless the guy is a certifable dick. We don't do inflated reviews to puff a chicks business at the expense of the dudes that follow. And in politics, you don't use the kids as props.
BK
Yeah, but how come Vice-President Cheney said a nice heart-felt thank you to Senator Edwards after his remarks regarding Mary Cheney during the VP debate?.....
I mean, Kerry didn't go Dr. Laura & say "being gay is a biological mistake" or some other insane remark....Seriously, I just don't see what Kerry said as being mean-spirited/offensive etc.....I understand your point about not using kids as props but I just don't think Kerry exploited her.....He might have walked a fine line, but he didn't cross it......
-- Modified on 10/15/2004 6:06:40 PM
I'd give Edwards the benefit of the doubt because I think he's kind of a decent guy. Leaving politics aside, that has been the impression I've gotten from watching him since the dem primary.
Not so with Kerry. I think Kerry is a slimeball. He used "the benefit of the doubt" a long time ago. Now, that's not to say he may very well have intended his remarks to be benign. That's how you saw it and you're no slimeball. Who's to know?
But I think we both can agree that if that's the way it was intended it was slimy and if Cheney is playing politics with his own daughter, that's double slimy.
BK
It is difficult for me to believe that anyone could have missed them. I actually read about his statement several times and heard about it on talk radio once, and I do not have a lot of time normally to read or hear such information.
I spend most of my time with my head up my ass so it's easy to see why I missed it.
BK
lol
Smarmy as he always is, it was delicious to see kerry's "lesbian" remark blow up on his plastic, orange face. He could've made the same point WITHOUT reference to any individual, but he willingly chose to single out the VP's daughter.
Why didn't he reference any of the hundreds of gays he claims to have met with and some who are even working in his office?? Here's why not--because in the VP's daughter, he thought he could use a wedge tool on the traditional families who support Bush/Cheney.
That loud hollow sound you just heard was the boomerang hitting Herman's head! Poor kerry. He just doesn't get it--I can call my sister out, my dad can call my sister out, but you, mister, better shut your smartass hole.
