In discussing this issue, I've noticed something. It seems that most of the people I've talked to on the gun issue seem wholly unaware of what their rights are.
So, let's try an experiment. Just as a self-test for anyone who reads this. Now you could cheat with Google if you want, but that would defeat the purpose. So avoid the temptation, and see if you can do this.
1) What rights are covered in the 1st amendment? Hint: There are 5 of them.
2) Can you summerize the 3rd amendment?
3) What rights are covered in the 4th amendment?
4) What right in the 5th amendment allows you to do nothing?
5) Explain how torture is banned with the 8th amendment.
6) What rights are covered in the 9th amendment?
7) What amendment covers rights of Due Process, and what does it mean?
I'm sure Mari will have an easy time with this, but give it a shot. If you find that your answers are badly lacking, then for Christ's sake, study the Bill of Rights. If there is anything that you should have memorized, it should be your rights.
Here's a video on "Gun Control For Dummies.
So, let's try an experiment. Just as a self-test for anyone who reads this. Now you could cheat with Google if you want, but that would defeat the purpose. So avoid the temptation, and see if you can do this.
1) What rights are covered in the 1st amendment? Hint: There are 5 of them.
2) Can you summerize the 3rd amendment?
3) What rights are covered in the 4th amendment?
4) What right in the 5th amendment allows you to do nothing?
5) Explain how torture is banned with the 8th amendment.
6) What rights are covered in the 9th amendment?
7) What amendment covers rights of Due Process, and what does it mean?
I'm sure Mari will have an easy time with this, but give it a shot. If you find that your answers are badly lacking, then for Christ's sake, study the Bill of Rights. If there is anything that you should have memorized, it should be your rights.
...just as hard for the Fourth Amendment. Our privacy right are constantly being whittled away by the Supreme Court and every administration, including Obama's.
What good does it do you to own all the guns you want if the government isn't barred by the Fourth Amendment from knocking down your door and doing whatever they want? Expect to see a lot more like Jimmy Lee Dykes in the future if the Fourth Amendment isn't protected.
the 2nd Amendment is there to ensure the survival of all the other rights. DOHHHH
...Patriot Act? Why haven't you used your guns on Congressmen, Presidents and Supreme Court justices who have taken away your Fourth Amendment rights? You're like a frog in a pot of water who doesn't even realized he's being boiled to death until it's too late. D'oh yourself, moron.
Idiotic statement. The 2nd Amendment does not give me the Right to go gun down anyone I please. Moron.
Why do YOU think the Right to Bear Arms was given its own Amendment and placed 2nd in order behind Free Speech, Freedom of Assembly, Freedom to Petition the government and Freedom of Religion ?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The key statement is "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State".
It's their to ensure the SECURITY of the STATE by a WELL REGULATED MILITIA, because the country did not have a standing army.
As usual, a left winger sees but does not comprehend. You should try reading the Federalist Papers and learning history and read less Huff Post.
"State" here does not mean the Federal government. It literally means the State of Massachusetts, the State of Pennsylvania, the State of New York, etc.
The "Well Regulated " part means that men know how to keep, maintain and use their weapons.
The "Militia" was EVERY able bodied man in each state that was capable of standing in a line and firing his gun. They did not have to take an oath, they did not have to wear a uniform, they did not even have to consider themselves "military". Their citizenship in their State was enough.
A work of "fiction" has no legal standing, and past court ruling do not support you opinion.
So, using your logic, the constitution is applicable to State of Massachusetts, the State of Pennsylvania, the State of New York, etc. Fantastic logic as is your interpretation.
Has there ever been a Supreme Court case argued on the basis of Federalist Papers and found to be unconstitutional. Suppose, you right wing nuts change facts you don’t like and when you don’t like election results you change the rules in the states you lost.
I've read the federalist papers. Which one are you quoting here?
"State" here does not mean the Federal government. It literally means the State of Massachusetts, the State of Pennsylvania, the State of New York, etc.
The "Well Regulated " part means that men know how to keep, maintain and use their weapons.
The "Militia" was EVERY able bodied man in each state that was capable of standing in a line and firing his gun. They did not have to take an oath, they did not have to wear a uniform, they did not even have to consider themselves "military". Their citizenship in their State was enough.
Ah- here it is: http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/bill_of_rightss7.html
"State" here does not mean the Federal government. It literally means the State of Massachusetts, the State of Pennsylvania, the State of New York, etc.
The "Well Regulated " part means that men know how to keep, maintain and use their weapons.
The "Militia" was EVERY able bodied man in each state that was capable of standing in a line and firing his gun. They did not have to take an oath, they did not have to wear a uniform, they did not even have to consider themselves "military". Their citizenship in their State was enough.
Hey Voyager- this argument here basically destroys your argument that the Federalist Papers (and Hamilton in particular) was arguing 1) for the bill of rights' 2nd Am., and second, that Hamilton argues that the 2nd Am pertains to individuals right to bear arms is for insurrection
Abusing Federalist Paper No. 29
http://www.potowmack.org/emerappi.html#abus46
prove this.
"State" here does not mean the Federal government. It literally means the State of Massachusetts, the State of Pennsylvania, the State of New York, etc.
The "Well Regulated " part means that men know how to keep, maintain and use their weapons.
The "Militia" was EVERY able bodied man in each state that was capable of standing in a line and firing his gun. They did not have to take an oath, they did not have to wear a uniform, they did not even have to consider themselves "military". Their citizenship in their State was enough.
To Makwa ; your ramblings border on the inane. Your logic is circular and you should attempt to create complete sentences.
To Cumberlandblue ; your logic is also faulty and circular, but not as bad as Makwa. Why would the Constitution not apply to the States? That is why it was written. You need to understand the CONTEXT of how the Constitution was derived. Your post with the link to one of the Federalist papers makes my point, not yours. There ( not their) were Founders that thought a Bill of Rights was superfluous, sure. They could not envision a country where a Federal government could grant itself such powers as an income tax, granting citizens free medical care, granting citizens the right to take the property of another citizen (welfare). We are (were perhaps?) lucky to have the prevailing attitude that certain Rights of Man must be enumerated so the Federal government could never usurp the most precious of our Rights. Again, the 2nd Amendment being included so that the "Militia" or the body of the Citizenry could ensure that the Federal government was not able to become a dictator.
To Cumberlandblue ; your logic is also faulty and circular, but not as bad as Makwa. Why would the Constitution not apply to the States? That is why it was written. You need to understand the CONTEXT of how the Constitution was derived. Your post with the link to one of the Federalist papers makes my point, not yours. There ( not their) were Founders that thought a Bill of Rights was superfluous, sure. They could not envision a country where a Federal government could grant itself such powers as an income tax, granting citizens free medical care, granting citizens the right to take the property of another citizen (welfare). We are (were perhaps?) lucky to have the prevailing attitude that certain Rights of Man must be enumerated so the Federal government could never usurp the most precious of our Rights. Again, the 2nd Amendment being included so that the "Militia" or the body of the Citizenry could ensure that the Federal government was not able to become a dictator.
The Federalist Papers have nothing to do with the bill of rights. the BofR was not addressed until a few years later, after the constitution was passed. the Fed papers were to sell the constitution. That's all I was saying.
I don't need to "understand" the "context" of the constitution- I am willing to bet any amount of money that I know much more than you do on the founding fathers, the constitution, and the bill of rights. You want to adds a whole layer of argument as to state versus fed, blah-blah-blah. And I think you are wrong. Please, tell me, what is the difference between the federal powers and the state powers. Each have three responsibilities- what are they? If you don't know them- please don't lecture me.
As to your second point- we have a constitution because it was clear to the founding fathers that we needed the power to tax. Who specifically were against the power of taxation? Please name them- because you'll find they were the radicals who were minor players in this subject. Jefferson in particular, and Madison and Monroe- all believed in an organic form of government, one where the attitudes and beliefs of the people will change and the governing documents must be able to change or war would result. See Jefferson's letters where he discusses the need for a wall of separation with religion and the state- he asks what would happen if we became largely hundi, but with a christian theology? War. his goal was to create a lasting document that would need to be refreshed, not one that was set in stone. Also see the areas of the federalist papers that discuss why we should be a single union instead of 2 or more federal governments covering the U.S. property that was made to counter the argument as to our form of democracy being too big to last- the object is to create an instrument to last. It would need tweaking, but in such a way as to mniimize any interference to the most important thing- commerce and economy.
Your argument about the 2nd amendment is not 100% correct- it is debated and if you go and read Madison's original language of what he wanted for the 2nd amendment (again- he was also against the Bill of Rights) you will see it was not a protection from the government, but clearly was a mechanism to protect the government. It goes hand in hand with the idea of no standing army explicitly put in the constitution- no standing army but we have militias ready to act as needed. Armies being the biggest threat.
You could make the argument that everyone had guns. But it is considered a natural law, not a common law. It was not common law originating from Britain because the average Brit couldn't own a gun- only the aristocracy could own guns.
A final note- you are trying to argue that universal healthcare is beyond the scope of the federal govt? Are you saying it's a state issue? Again- please explain the duties of the state and the duties of the fed, and you'll realize the real answer here.
Again- things change. As buddhists believe- pain comes from a refusal to accept change. Jefferson and Madison were very concerned about change and ensuring that war is avoided at all costs. But we can't go aroudn arguing what ought to be- we need to argue what is. The difference is basically arguing (yours it seems) a moral philosophy/idealogy versus a pragmatic one.
I apologize if anything is unclear here- I am at work and my boss is noting I'm not working

And as far as I'm concerned, background checks are a violation of our 4th and 5th amendment rights.
Our right of privacy is continually being attacked. I don't agree with it, but one could make the case for this in the wake of 9/11. But the War on Terror is over now. It time to return to the way things were.
Our right of privacy is continually being attacked. I don't agree with it, but one could make the case for this in the wake of 9/11. But the War on Terror is over now. It time to return to the way things were.

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