I might have it wrong, but if the government gives us the 200k-500k we will essentially buy homes, pay back loans, invest, and pay off houses (etc.etc.)... Which will essentially give the banks back the money needed to be able to loan money and people get to keep there jobs and I get to continue pleasing for a living ...  I seriously doubt people will put that money under their matress (so the banks will get large deposits)...  Possibly even a better plan would be to give us a monthly check up to the 200k-500k amount over 10-20 years...  I'm sure many people/enough people will not take it for granted and pay off/put it towards bills, loans/mortgages, and some will purchase random vanity goods/shit (economy benefits)...  I think the second idea is better and especially if the government strongly suggests the importance to us of being responsible with the money (i.e.-paying off loans) for our country depends on it... After the first large check to everyone is cut they should be able to get a reading of how it is going... If it doesn't work then I guess go back to the buying up bad bonds or whatever they are trying to do now...  Any problems that you guys forsee?

Actaully I'm writting this based on a post below, but I really don't know where people are getting the 200k-an higher number...  The government would have to dish out 40 trillion to give 200k if the amount of people is 200 million that your giving it to...

The whole idea doesn't seem to work when I think about it because how would the government get that money back... They'd just be out of all that money unless they raised our taxes substantially...  Another question do you think 20k would make a difference at 4 trillion loss from Governemnt? Do they have that kind of money to give?  Doesn't sound like it when they are getting loans for the war...

-- Modified on 9/30/2008 12:04:09 AM

-- Modified on 9/30/2008 12:10:24 AM

The perception of this entire board is very skewed!

First the government does not exist as a monetary body(the people are the monetary backers) so the question is do the PEOPLE have the money to pay these bail out proposals?  Open your wallets and look into your back accounts and then answer that question.

Second, is everyone so narrow minded that they believe that this all started over bad bank mortgagees?  Good grief open your eyes and look back at the last 50-70 years!  This country had short term memory as to why the great depression happened as those generations faded so did our memory of reason.

A basic principle of "living on credit" will cause all pliable economic policy to fail, it is that simple.  If the people of this country want the economics to improve they have to decide to live on monies earned.  If they(we) cannot, it will NEVER get better!

We as a world of economics are at a crossroads with technology.  It would be very simple to leave paper money behind and go completely plastic or iris(print) transfer, the question right now is does it get set up on a credit basis or as direct deposit and withdrawal only.

The idea that people can buy their home, cars and everything else on credit, then pay interest on all that money along with trying to save money for college and retirement has been proven impossible, TWICE!

Bailout will not help!  As long as handouts are available failing companies and bad decisions will continue to plague the world economic situation.

Economic collapse is inevitable at this point.  Not just here in the states, globally.  Financial restructuring is imminent.  Monies owed and saved on paper will evaporate as they did with the great depression.

The question is...can we figure this out and remember it long enough to pass it on to future generations?

For those of you that think the world lives on supply and demand, you have seriously missed out in education.  It only works with complete lawless community.  Once law is present supply and demand has parameters and dictator relations have begun.

Examples: How can you have free enterprise in ins. when law dictates you MUST have it, you have just taken away supply and demand and put it all in the morale hands of those that created the LAW of mandate!  How about oil and gas prices when there is LAW that states a minimum but not a maximum price you have again taken away free enterprise and subjected it to morale of mandates.

As for the people losing everything they have because of the stock market.  Take a look at those investments you have starting with retirement products.  Most of the avenues are set up to glean your money from you over long periods of time and leave you with nothing except resentment.  This will be most evident in those people worldwide that fall below the 100,000 per year household income brackets.  You think I am wrong do your own self evaluation.

Retirement accounts, where are they, and what type of vehicle are they in, do you understand them?  If your retirement (401k,TSA,IRA) is in an annuity or Cash value Life INS product, you are being robbed of every nickel you put in them!  15 years of watching elderly people in my community reach retirement age and being told they have nothing when they have these products for 30-50 years has proven it.  Proposition 1743 of the government insurance a code actually says they are legal theft!  Go look it up for yourselves, then listen to your agents and companies lie to you some more when you question it and have them tell you, TRUST me.

How about those of you that have retirement accounts in the right place, the stock market, stocks bonds mutual fund and commodities that are not ins. related.  1991 the stock market was at approx. 2,800 and 6 months ago it was at 14,500 that is 5 times the growth have your portfolios grown by 5 times in the last 15 years?  I want to see a raise of hands from those of you making less than 100,000 per year.  Fees and penalties and bad money management from those who said TRUST me has left you robbed once again!

Big companies and government bodies have not only created a debt for us, but have devalued us as wage earners, decreased our family health through insurance, depleted the monies for education, and overvalued our homes to make us pay more than we should so they can raise taxes higher than what our homes are worth.

Now combine all that with high food cost (bad health caused by processed foods), high fuel costs by large company greed and you all tell me that this is all caused by bad banking!

The absolute best thing for the world is for large companies to fail and go under.  Put the money back into the hands of the people that need it, localize jobs again and take the control away from conglomerates.  Remove the rich people from government offices and put the decision making ability back into the hands of middle class America!


-- Modified on 9/30/2008 1:17:30 AM

I'm sure if TER members are willing to read that you will be called a socialist... Right, wrong or indifferent TER members like to through that socialist comment around to deserving and undeserving individuals/politicians ...  It is a credit (lol, as the media/wall street/politicians have made it ever so clear) problem overall and terrible values/irresponsible spending/borrowing of a lot of us...  I remember reading in the Millionaire Mind about how the majority of wealthy individuals live (moderate means; I guess wealthy has to be defined and if I recall it was people possessing a million on up)...  Warren Buffets home if I recall is not terribly lavish and he doesn't live in excess rather he is consistently conducting cost benefit analysis...  I personally haven't lived long enough to know the benefits of investing in the stock market over the long term, but I do understand that savings accounts/annuities yield just above inflation (annuities doing slightly better than savings accounts; therefore both are bad investment vehicles) and if you consistently earn 10% on your money every year in the stock market you will benefit from compound interest immensely (especially if you are adding to the accounts on a monthly basis)...

If I understand you correctly (don't hold it against me if I misquoted you) you are suggesting that we shouldn't be able to get loans/have credit, but that is problematic for numerous reasons (I don't think the reasons need to be listed)... I do however think all first time home owners should go through a program to learn about purchasing homes (pros and cons) and that credit card companies/student loaners shouldn't take advantage of people/students/youth...  The should have a general policy of quality over quantity and it seems they have had it the other way around...  There are programs out there currently that give home buyers better interest rates because they go through classes and are more knowledgable about the terms/agreement they are getting themselve into and most likely because they have become more financially responsible/knowledgable...  If we let the banks fail our savings will be depleted (are you willing to start over?)...  I'll finish commenting and making suggestions a little later...

I personally don't know why the government doesn't make the banks go back and refinance peoples houses that are facing foreclosure...  If they have to sell it as a foreclosed product it will be far less valuable to the bank than if they refinanced a house to the original purchaser at a substantially lower value and/or interest rate so that those people will be able to make the payments...  The banks will not make as much (will/should learn from mistake), but ideally they will be receiving more than the foreclosed value...  I suppose the same thing can be applied to most credit terms...  Yes the margins will be a lot less for the banks, but seem better than the other options of facing foreclosure and the bank therefore not being able to make there interest payments to depositors and being able to make the loans businesses need to survive (I definitely don't think people should need credit cards to survive; if you don't have the cash on hand to purchase things don't purchase things and live at your means)...  These statements might be naive, but to me currently sound logical and pragmatic until someone bursts my bubble, lol...

I guess the biggest problem with that is then everyone will stop making payments to be able to reduce their monthly payments (through foreclosure refinancing idea I suggested) and I'm not sure how that will affect the home values in the nation...  But then again who wants the negative credit effects of going into foreclosure to refinance?  So it could work after all...  Would be a lot of work on the banks part, but it took them a long time to get into this mess there shouldn't be an immediate exit strategy developed to assist them unless absolutely needed for our economy... Just my .02...      

 



-- Modified on 9/30/2008 4:53:20 AM

talk about giving every legal citizen over 18 250K and I don't know the number of people he thought he  was talking about but he sure was way off and wasn't being serious and I didn't think about it before I posted.  For sure the arithmetic is way off.

Maybe all these deadbeats should be allowed to have their mortgages refinanced for 45 years.  I am sure a lot of the deadbeats will still not pay and walk away from the real estate, BUT, maybe 75% will start paying again and possibly in 5 years, there will be equity in the property?

A bunch of economists wrote a letter saying that they didn't like the plan.  I agree with them.  I think it's the dems fault personally.

I think Franklin Raines COOKED THE BOOKS TO GET HIS BONUSES!!!  That dirty bastard belongs in prison and I think that 90 million he got should be taken away- every single asset that he has should be taken away and then he should be thrown in prison w/Barney Spitswhentalks Frank, and Chris Snappingpoodle Dodd and Fuck U Schumer.

Then throw those deadbeat house buyers with no money out on the street and take away every penney of credit that they have along with every asset they have. And then throw them into debtors prison. That will teach them a lesson and set an example for all the dirty little rug-rat bastards that want to grow up to become deadbeats and criminals.

Then hang all of the middlemen from it. Then take all of the speculators and hang them from it. Charge congress with treason and have a trial, then hang the those convicted from the gallows. Those actions should clear up all this economic bullshit.

You are replying to my post below, and if you go back and look at it again, you'll see that I said the plan will work just fine if all the citizens used the money in an intelligent and responsible way. This is what you are saying too.

You are simply giving people too much credit.

"I seriously doubt people will put that money under their matress (so the banks will get large deposits)...  "

If you see a bunch of banks failing and needing bailouts, and now the government gives you money, you would be a dumbass to give that money right back to the banks without waiting to see how things pan out. People mistrust the banks, and it will take time to earn that trust back.

"I'm sure many people/enough people will not take it for granted and pay off/put it towards bills, loans/mortgages, and some will purchase random vanity goods/shit (economy benefits)...  I think the second idea is better and especially if the government strongly suggests the importance to us of being responsible with the money (i.e.-paying off loans) for our country depends on it..."

Lol, you'd be surprised at how many idiot we have in this country. Most people don't watch the news and don't listen to what anything the government has to say. Think what percentage of the voting population actually votes.

Do you have any idea how much $40 TRILLION is?

The GDP of the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD  is only a little over $50 trillion. Just how the fuck do you expect the US Govt to come up with $40 Trillion to "give back" to its tax payers? The entire premise is one of the stupidest ideas ever presented here.

And to think the vote of each moron that buys into this shit cancels my vote.

I've got a plane to catch. Have fun.

I hope you find intelligent life on Mars, because there sure as shit isn't any here!

Your basic priciple of government giving the people money is severly flawed.  thePEOPL's money is all we have, the government accumulates all their money from the people.  It is like saying every adult should give themselves a quarter of a million dollars and then spend it wisely!  They would have to borrow the money to give to themselves.  That is the entire flaw in tghe system, we borrow every dime we live on, the principle of buying only what you have money to buy has for the second time in history come to terms with the world.  Maybe the third time will be the charm!

is the worst thing that could happen!  PEOPLE SPEND MORE THAN THEY MAKE!  That has created a huge problems and teh idea was to extend terms through credit.  Credit is BAD in a society where the cost of everything increases faster than earnings.

Credit caused the great depression when large purchases such as homes became the norm on credit alone.  More loans were granted than liquid money was available in the economy!  Crash, no way for anyone to pay the debt.  We have now followed in the same footprints of the forefathers of this nation without learning a single thing.

Car loans went from 2-3 years to now 7-8 years, what is teh average life cycle of a car with a loan?  2.2 years thus loans are rolled over with no possible way of ever paying them off.  Home loans started at 15 years now at 30 and the average person lives in their home...5.8 years.  Credit cards, a one time maxed out CC will take 36 years to pay off if it is never used again and minimum payments only are made.  Percentage of card holders that pay entire balance at the end of the month 2.9%.

You mentioned extending loan terms on homes to 45 and in five there should be equity in the home.  First, home values at current times are 34% overvalued and 62% of people have mortgages that banks allow mortgaged to 125% of the loan value.  With a standard 45 year mortgage a home owner would only pay down 2% of the home in the first five years.  That puts homes at 59% leverage, no possible way for that homeowner to have equity in 5 years.  If they do not get a second mortgage on the property in the furture(keep in mind 80%of americans live by extending home first and second mortgages) and the housing market takes the historical path of rebalance(8-10 years) and mortages were extended to 45 years, home owners would be even in approx. 27.5 years!  How many home owners can balance their home budget without haveing to borrow on credit a dime in the next 27.5 years?

Better yet, how long will it take our goverment to balance the budget and return its debt back to 0?  That of course is also the debt of every american aside from their own personal debts at home!

Unless you can tell me that there is not a single Rep in debt, there is not difference between parties.

I like your idea of throwing every deadbeat intio the streets!  That is if you don't mind those same deadbeats that had everything taken awayfrom them by the rich(lower wages, higher healthcare or no healthcare provided by thier rich bosses) killing and robbing those same rich people to feed and cloth their children.  Don't look for any help from law enforcement officers or the national guard, they will all be on the streets and deadbeats as well!

At least you find crude humor in the national crisis!

Who gets to play the part of Marie Antoinette?

Pelosi I'm praying.

I wasn't suggesting giving people 200k... It was a suggestion in threads further down on this board...  If you notice at the end of my comments I also rejected the feasibility of the whole idea...

I did however suggest restructuring the loan packages of the 30% or so that are facing foreclosure only so they would be able to make payments on their loan and the banks wouldn't suffer as much...

-- Modified on 9/30/2008 12:34:15 PM

or is that greed over morality?

That means on average every home that was bought in the past 8 years will have a matching one foreclose.  That is a LOT of homes!

-- Modified on 9/30/2008 1:19:07 PM

I've been saving since I was 16, when I saw my first copy of playboy.  I was determined to buy myself one of those bunnies.