I am one of Matts biggest opponents here but I will concede as well he offered up that olive branch you mention and kudos for him for trying. If I am going to bust his balls for being "partisan Matt", then credit is due when "moderate Matt" returns.
In addition, Trump was praised by several on CNN, most notably David Gergen, who has hounded virtually Trump's every move.
He even backed everything on his crib notes, saying that every President has had them.
Trump being presidential. Sitting down with survivors of the Stoneman High School massacre. Probably the bravest thing he's done since being elected.
-- Modified on 2/21/2018 4:59:04 PM
That was actually pathetic and shameful. He sat there and tried his best to look like he cared about these people. He did not directly engage any of them. And then he spoke at length about the incredibly stupid idea of arming teachers. The folks that went there and poured their hearts out left feeling lost and betrayed. Their plea was clearly that we need more control over the proliferation of gun possession. We need to reduce the numbers of guns out there and make sure that gun ownership is responsible and reasonable.
Instead our now provably illegitimate President Dumbasses idea is to put more guns in the mix. Since he is a proven coward, has never seen combat let alone the more complex police shooting tactics, he just acted clueless.
And for those ignoramuses here that think arming teachers is a good idea, lets break that down. First of all teachers are for educating, not protecting our kids. I want my kid’s teacher to be hyper focused on that job and not have to worry about also having to be a cop.
But lets look at the tactical situation, which is what a cop looks at. Very much unlike a military combat situation, where you have basically two lines of damarcation, police tactic are not so defined as far as field of fire. Rule number one is situational awareness as to what targets are in front and behind yur bad guy target. Bad guy knows the teacher is armed, so is target number one. Most classrooms have two doors, many with horizontal windows. So, shooter finds an unlocked front door and immediately shoot and kills teacher and then the rest of the class. Or he comes through the back door and starts shooting at the teacher. Assuming the eacher has time to draw his weapon, he can’t shoot it for fear of hitting one of the many students that would undoubtedly be running around in the chaos.
Good job President dumbass!
So where is Matt again???
If you were a teacher or a kid at that school, and you heard gun fire in the hall, at that moment, would you want someone armed to give you a chance at staying alive or would you want to resort to "prayers and thoughts" only?
To her credit, she said of course she would want someone to take out the threat since, as we know, the cops wont get there fast enough.
And your answer would be?
-- Modified on 2/21/2018 11:30:50 PM
There should not beg gun fire in schools in the first place and that is the root cause of the problem. Not who has guns and who doesn't.
Then there is stupidest argument about the second amendment. Does second amendment take the right of others to live without the fear of getting shot, when they go to a movie, school, concert, etc., etc.?
It is time for the opposition to line behind the kids and put NRA and their second amendment BS to bed.
What kind of idiot are you?
Presidents do NOT make laws.
You've got a bitch take it to your congressman and senator.
If you don't understand how our different branches work then don't vote.
Oh, and BOTH parties have held majorities in congress and neither did anything about it
Did I even suggest that Presidents make laws? But they are supposed to lead and can propose laws. I think the idiot here is obvious.
Agree with everything you said.
Another big BS is increasing the age to buy guns to 21 as there were no over 21 year old shooters. How do you come up with these stupid shit and talk about it with straight face.
I am pretty hard on "partisan Matt" but this thread shows just why there is very little actual discussion on this board. The moment someone offers any kind of olive branch to the "other side" members of their own side rip the tree out of the ground and beat him with it.
Matt, I give you kudos for the effort, too bad your own side is doing their best to rip you to shreds for it.
Can you even imagine Obama inviting a bunch of NRA members into the White House for a "listening session" The very thought is laughable. Get used to it lefties, whether or not Trump was sincere is irrelevent at this point, this could have been a disaster for him, but he sucked it up and invited what was likely to be a VERY hositle crowd into the White House on national television and actually let them do almost all of the talking. Never once did he make it about "him" and never once did his dismiss or ridicule any of the kids or the adults for their ideas or beliefs that didn't align with his own, this was by far his most "Presidential" moment, and if he keeps this up get used to seeing him for another 7 years.
I am one of Matts biggest opponents here but I will concede as well he offered up that olive branch you mention and kudos for him for trying. If I am going to bust his balls for being "partisan Matt", then credit is due when "moderate Matt" returns.
In addition, Trump was praised by several on CNN, most notably David Gergen, who has hounded virtually Trump's every move.
He even backed everything on his crib notes, saying that every President has had them.
To somehow bring up Obama, who did in fact meet with the gun lobby several times to discuss solutions and was immediately shot down is just silly. I wasn’t vilifying Matt and I admire his efforts to hold up an olive branch, it just wasn’t the right branch to hold up.
But I will say Trump showed some courage against his gun nut base by calling for more stringent background checks, although that has been proven to be fairly ineffective in the past. Full disclosure: I am a responsible and well trained gun owner/shooter and I certainly want to keep it that way. But there has to be more control over how our citizens obtain and keep guns safely. Time and time again I see guys out on the range with no clue as to what they are doing and have no business owning or using a weapon until they get some training and knowledge as to how to do so safely.
Just a couple weeks ago a 12 year old girl brought a loaded pistol into her classroom in her backpack. She dropped the pack, the gun went off, the bullet striking two classmates, wounding one seriously. Is that what we want as a society?
I did a Google search for "Obama meets with gun Lobby" and never got a single hit of him meeting with them even privately, much less publicly like Trump did yesterday. But your little "bending of the truth aside" even your example of the little twelve year old girl just proves what many of us have been saying all along. It's ALREADY illegal for that little girl to be in possession of a weapon, another 1,000 laws would have done nothing if the laws we already have aren't enforced.
I eagerly await your proof that Obama personally met with the gun lobby.
How about this one...
It took me about 20 seconds to find it.
And putting "Obama meets with NRA members" in your subject line and then linking an article that says the exact opposite is just as dishonest.
When you say "it took you about 20 seconds to find it" what you SHOULD have said is that "It took you about 20 seconds to doctor a link to CLAIM you found it"
If you are going to lie like a certain moocher, I guess I am going to have to treat you the same way I treat him. Nice talking to you
Oh man are you acting stupid. If you actually bothered to read the transcript, you would have learned that while the NRA was not officially present, many in the audience were in fact members of the NRA. Besides, genius, I never said Obama met with the NRA in the first place.
So instead of conceding the point you make up a total lie. Good job there!
rejected the invitation as far as I know. Wayne Lapierre explained after the Gifford shooting “why should I sit down with someone who has dedicated his life to destroying the Second Amendment?”
Whether he actually met with other persons comprising the “gun lobby” I don’t know but I don’t believe he ever actually met with the NRA. But he most certainly did invite them to meet.
much less happened "several" times as Jinxie claimed.
Thank you for agreeing with me that once again Jinxie is playing fast and loose with the truth.
When did the gun lobby become " Trump'"'s
It been around a lonnnngggg time before he came to office.
And unlike lifetime politicians he hasn't sold his soul for their dollars.
He listen, OK that was good. It was the political thing to do. But It might as well been behind closed doors. trump needed something to show that he cared. He was vague but then again he didn't face the backlash that Rubio faced in that town hall. Lil Cameron took Rubio to the woodshed on the "Will you continue to accept NRA money". I don't know what was worse, that water bottle moment or trying to answer that question.That was tough even for me to watch.
But back to the trumpster...If he was really concern, and mental health seemed to be part of the issue, why doesn't he reinstate the executive order that Obama signed regarding mental health? The measure the trump rescinded, trump should plead a "My Bad". I mean trump loves the executive order, he should look at what can be done through the executive order process. By pass Congress because nothing will pass though those channels.
And the ideal of teachers packing heat, I was very luke warm on that but after watching that town all meeting, forget it. The teachers don't want it, It's not " To Protect and Serve".
You came to that conclusion based on what was said by VERY few teachers in a wildly left wing crowd last night?
If YOU were a teacher, would YOU want a gun if someone was firing bullets in the hallway getting closer and closer to your door?
Let the teachers who WANT to, and that would be quite a few, do so, making sure they go through additional proper training etc and DONT force the ones who don't want to.
That is "choice." I thought libs LOVE "choice" hyper?
One of the benefactors of the NRA.. .He states it a bad ideal, and yes if at that time, if bullets were flying and my door was barricaded I would like to have a gun, but in a normal school year, what if there's a disturbance in the class, two kids fighting,which I guarantee you that happens more often, would I want that gun in the class room, NO. There's probably more harm in having the gun in the classroom long run. So on this, I wouldn't want the teachers to decide, too many things can go wrong..I can Imagine Mrs. Moore, 63 yo English teacher with a gun....yeah that will work.
And the way trump painted a situation when a gunman is on campus, one shot and it's over....Ever seen a police crime scene where there was a shootout? There hundred of casing of shots that were fired., sometime the pros don't hit their target the first time, can you imagine teachers??? These teacher won't want to get into a firefight with a gunman in the hallways or on the grounds, Annie Oakley they're not.
The crowd being "Wildy Left", maybe or maybe in the middle, but either way they were pissed.
and he gave exactly the wrong answer when being "bullied" by a teenager.
His answer should have been "NO, the NRA is made up of millions of law abiding gun owners trying to protect THEIR constitutional rights, and I refuse to be bullied into forsaking them" THAT would have been the "right" answer.
You lefties are either being intentionally obtuse or simply misunderstanding the proposal about having "certain" teachers being armed. There seems to be some misperception that all teachers are little old ladies barely able to walk from class to class and that simply is not true. Let's say if a school has a total faculty of 100, that is going to include coaches, janitors, pricinpals and yes teachers too, some of whom have either prior military training, or are otherwise proficient with firearms. If even 10% qualify, that is ten additional "good guys with a gun" that can give the kids a chance while waiting for LE to arrive.
BTW NOBODY except a fool "wants" to get in a shootout, but when attacked it's better to die in a shootout than like lambs to the slaughter, You lefties are fond of saying "if it saves even one life, isn't it worth it?" Well this proposal almost certainly is going to save a lot more than one life.
Does not have a best friend who is a teacher. Then ltm could tell us all the facts and everything there is to know about teachers having guns in schools.
"NO, the NRA is made up of millions of law abiding gun owners trying to protect THEIR constitutional rights, and I refuse to be bullied into forsaking them" .Yes, Rubio "could've" said that, BUT HE DIDN'T......I know you had time to rehearse that line. And like a typical righty, say one thing and it's the gospel...thought you'd of all would be smarter then that...but.
And you mention the usual NRA rhetoric, "Good Guy with a Gun"...Well there was a good guy with a gun there, and how did that work out??
We are on the polar opposites on this, we'll never see eye to eye on this...
Doesn’t seem to be much support for your stupid idea of arming teachers. These teachers explain why.
Go ahead and deflect. Of course there will be a few crazy stupid gun but teachers you could probably trot out, but these folks in the below link sound pretty damn reasonable.
Many teachers on record saying they would love the opportunity to protect the kids but of course lib media cant seem to find the ones Fox finds. Hmmmmm....
And why the sexism and ageism? If Mrs. Moore wants to have a gun AND she is proficient in using one, why wouldn't that "work?" Love to hear your thoughts on that. LOL
I never heard Trump say one shot and its would be over, but one shot COULD stop the murderer. We can have a plan in place to make it virtually impossible for the kids to get at the gun, cant we?
My way, the kids and teachers have a chance. Your way, they are all sitting ducks.
"And why the sexism and ageism", wow since when did you ever care about anyone but yourself...you getting soft on us?
Mrs Moore may have failing eyesight, to frail to fight off an attacker while in class, a student not a killer. There's a number of reason Dumpy, Now you tell me, visualize a situation while in her classroom, in a student brawl, her gun confiscated and used...what da ya think...and don't twist this as you normally do.
Pay close close attention to trump's editorial from last night...play it in slow mo if you have too, Hear what is said, not wht you interpret.
And tag a link where teacher are stating that they would love the opportunity, I'm sure there's a few but 20 percent as trump claims..I don't think so.
Yes your way the kids will be sitting duck the whole school year,with a gun sometimes within arms reach.
Focus hyper, FOCUS! Lol
Mrs. Moore doesn't have to have a gun! If she is frail and has poor eyesight she can decline. See???? Again, its called "choice."
And Jesus H hyper. "Within arms reach?" Who the fuck is saying that? Proper protocols would be in place and the gun would under lock and key.
instead of actually watching it live to hear it for yourself.
This kind of shit happens all the time, Trump will say something in the afternoon and since I almost always have one of the financial news channels on the TV during virtually every business day I get to hear it live and in it's entirety only to listed to CNN or one of the network news outlooks completely misrepresent what was said that very same evening. It's kind of like having LTM watch the news for you all day and then you getting all your news by having him retell what he heard that day. lmao
What did you think about this...I asked about trump reinstating this but you shied away...what's your take??
"To be clear, the rule had opponents. It wasn’t just the NRA that wanted the rule rolled back. Disability rights groups also objected to the bill. The American Civil Liberties Union joined the protest and in a letter to members of Congress, urged for its repeal.
We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent,” the letter says. “There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence.”
Hyper, when do you ever see Trump, the Congress, the NRA, the ACLU and disability rights groups ALL on the SAME side of an issue???
handcuffs "normal folks" from discriminating from "mentals" who are grouped with folks with disabilities. Felons are grouped together with this group as well.
Having a disability seems to encompass all nowadays. I can CIM unwanted and some would say I have a disability because she didn't ask for it.
I'm all ears...and be straight forward, what's your plan?
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POINT: The teacher wasn't sure who was friend and who was foe. Give her a gun and she might shoot the principal for a bad performance review because "I thought she was the shooter." And shooters will soon add other bits and pieces to confuse and confound victims and LE. The FL shooter had body armor (looks like police); he could have added a badge or a fake "POLICE" jacket or whatever. After the shooting, he discarded his stuff and managed to sneak out with the other students; LE did not apprehend him until later, off site!!
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Yeah ... teachers with guns. Great idea - not!
What would you do once the killer has the weapon and is inside the school? You have proposed absolutely nothing to stop or mitigate the tragedy, under my scenario.
I am all ears.
How many of those kids would have died if the guy had an AR-15? The fact is, some of us would be fine with that solution. Others of us would not; that is not willing to give up our guns. To pretend, like the NRA, that any measure to restrict gun ownership or the types of weapons one can own, will not help reduce casualties is totally dishonest. Even in military exercises, they are always calculating how to limit casualties. The NRA doesn't appear to be willing to have those discussions, or when they do, they are dishonest. Norway and Switzerland have a high degree of gun ownership, high gun regulations, and low casualties due to gun violence. To break it down in simple terms, we have 3 factors to work with: 1. Guns, 2. Lives, 3. Freedom, or unlimited or minimal restrictions. Guns + freedom = highest number of deaths due to gun violence. Take away 1 or 3, you save lives. So far, as a country, we are unwilling to give up neither to save lives. So, instead of all this discussion about what will or will not work, let's just be honest about.
What would you do once the killer has the weapon and is inside the school? You have proposed absolutely nothing to stop or mitigate the tragedy, under my scenario.
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More secure school buildings? Hi-tech detection to trigger hi-tech detention, like some banks and other buildings have "access control vestibules" (google it). If something is wrong (metal detector signal), the "alleged" culprit
is trapped in the vestibule between two secure, bullet-proof, reinforced doors. .
Is security like that expensive? Sure. Is it oppressive and time consuming to have kids pass through double doors one by one? Sure. Will it keep guns, knives and other detectable hazards (gunpowder / bombs are detectable) out of the schools? Sure. Until the whackos start shooting up the schoolyards and playgrounds to avoid the security doors altogether. I guess that would be a gun problem, huh?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxO_bvgWowk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78w_YFAq0_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7K7PhuZSkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4E-zQFCYP4
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Post-911, there new building codes for skyscrapers. They all must have those super-strong, secure central cores to better protect tenants making an escape. New and retrofit schools could require better security.
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But there are other possibilities, as well.
I think banning bump stocks, raising the age to buy an AR-15, introducing stricter background checks and removing the gun show loophole is kind of acceptable. Unfortunately, we all know that new legislation will not stop the next mass shootings and only the good guys will follow the new rules.
I personally believe this is copy-cat issue and drastic measures need to be taken. I would introduce a federal law that mandates public execution (televised) for anybody who kills on a school ground if I was a government official.
..choreographed and repeatedly rehearsed body language and script.
Skunk's solution for the senseless mass murders of children is to help his gun manufacturer friends by recommending or even requiring more people like teachers to bear guns.
By comparison to the Skunk, people like Milosevic, Pinochet, and Qaddafi must be saints.
somewhere, and words are typically the starting point. Though I applaud Trump for setting down with those family members and survivors, I can't say I'm all that optimistic regarding much changing in the Senate and House, in spite of what Trump may say he want's done. As he's done with many issues, today, with his words, he just seemed to muddy the waters.