and more importantly "US" and "THEM".

I haven't bothered to post anything of real substance on this board in along time. After contemplating recent events and various discourses on other more private boards (and seeing a "you" bring up a "me" in another thread) I thought a few comments might be in order since both of us are part of the local "we" as well as the greater "US".

My primary point here is actually the greater "THEM" since regardless of our differences we're all subject to scrutiny capable of bringing down Presidents, Governers and the average "john" or "jane" as the case might be. My 1st exposure to this was a gentleman from Dallas who used the handle "DickO'stone" and was probably the 1st true source (or for others he'd be a shill) who had real and meaningful 411. He eventually lost his house, job and finances as a result.

As a contributing member of the "hobby" (the US) for close to 2 decades I've seen more then my share of infighting. However I've met some wonderful people and watched the "greater US" bury the dead, nurse the sick, raise money and toys for the needy and in many ways contribute to the greater good.

Over the last 5 years or so TER has actually played an invaluable role in helping "US". While I dont agree with everything DE does and feel his recent history of choices is detrimental I hope that over time he/TER continue to be a big part of the "we" since he's a huge part of US and certainly of great interest to THEM. In the end I think that the safety and well being of all of the "me & we" factions is tied to the greater US since we are all at the mercy of THEM in the end.

I hope as "we" move forward a bit more thought might be paid to our mutual interdependence. In the end a strong community is a safer one.

Just some musings and ramblings from someone who used to spend to much time here

...is the opinion that there is an 'US' and a 'THEM'.  
I think that the solutions are more easily found when we admit that 'THEM' is really 'US'.  

We claim to be a society run by the majority, but I find that sometimes the majority hides.  Often because of oudated beliefs or convictions, and sometimes because they/we are simply misinformed or miseducated to believe that they/we represent the less popular opinion.

I like your style, TXToast.  It can be argued that we are all more interdependent than we will ever consciously acknowledge.  Thanks for furthering the awareness!

is that in this instance there is a very real "THEM"...to the point that federal laws were enacted specifically to target specific subsets of society for a more or less universal vice. People have been convicted and imprisoned based on who they are/were, their political, racial or religious realities....not there sexual proclivities.

This isnt a question regarding the majority....moral or otherwise. It's a statement that in this country the activities pursued and discussed herein are illegal and at times an amazingly disporportunate expendature of resources is focused on very specific targets. Even though improper and incorrect tactics are used and ultimately charges are dropped the very real cost can be extreme.

While the loss of the sense of community is very real and regretable the more fundemental loss of comminication is even more disturbing. If we go back to the "politics" of 2002-2004 while we had alot of "infighting" we also had alot of communication that crossed over "faction lines". I cant tell you how many times I had lunch with "the other side".

My view is that those faction lines have significantly hardened and that more and more folks have clearly taken a side and have less or even no contacts outside of there little group. For many of the casual hobbiests the only real source of any 411 is boards like this where any real meaningful discussion has long since dried up.

Again this is just a single perspective from one source that no longer has any vested interest with any faction. I just think that to continue to be fractionalized and trivialized over truely petty issues is a recipe for disaster at some point in the future.

You seem to have a serious point to make but I can't quite figure out what it is. You seem to be confusing prosecution with the jury function. Even if a prosecution is politically or otherwise improperly based, the jury decides whether to convict and I think it is rare in this day that they would do so for political, racial or religious reasons, so I can't agree with your statement that sex offenders are in fact convicted and imprisoned for these reasons.

And the people who are imprisoned for "sexual proclivities" almost overwhselmingly are ones who engage in sexual acts with minors, and they deserve it. Consensual acts between adults even for pay are not even felonies in most states, so imprisonment is not an option.


What this has to do with the loss of community that you lament and the recipe for disaster is less clear.

...that's why there's so much hulabaloo and cries of betrayal when we find out that one of 'THEM' is really one of 'US'!!

There's a great number of people on this and many other adult forums.  Perhaps not all hobbyists; but voyeurs, fetishists, furtlers, and otherwise sexually adventurous or exploratory types.  They may not post, but they read.

And they are lawyers.  Speech Writers.  Lobbyists.  Political Consultants. Representatives.  Delegates.  

And those are just a few.  Any ATF could tell you stories, I'm sure... but part of the 'unwritten rule' when paying for time is that one is also paying for discretion.  (Kinda like doctor/patient privelege.)

I think that in the areas of politics and journalism, there's always a benefit to the appearance of faction lines being cemented.  US vs THEM is much easier to fight as opposed to US vs US.  But the sooner we realize that the onus is on 'Us' and not 'them', the sooner we can become catalysts to change.

But that's just my two cents, FWIW.

but i think i agree with you.

unless saying that causes trouble.