All this talk about witholding dollars to send a message to certain providers to relax pricing structures: It just makes no sense. Yes ladies, despite my seeming to take the opposite stance, I'm actually on your side.

For one, the females get extremely upset at such talk (especially the "La Squadra Feminina" types who think that by having lunch once a week, they have some kind of control...they do not).  They start to feel disrespected. They tell you to stop whining, etc.

And many men get upset because you are suggesting what they do with their own pooning dollars. They also tell you to stop whining.

The fact is, pricing in this biz is a tricky matter.  If you know a reasonable number of girls, you'll know that while many of them have phones that ring incessantly, not all of those calls "flesh-out" into reality.  If they list the price too high, then the phone stops ringing altogether.  If they list it too low, then not only does the phone never stop ringing, it brings with it callers who ask about every individual "line item" on the Chinese menu (and haggle over the individual cost of each item).

Some girls are short-term "factories" and do not want to be in this business for very long.  They want to harvest maximum dollar in a short amount of time.  Their price is somewhat lower, and their phone rings a lot.  They see ten+ men per day.

Other ladies are in it for the longer haul.  They actually like the work, or the flexibility, or the extra cash (or all three).  They might "have the goods" to command a higher price too.  There are many factors to how the scale works.  They do not want or expect to see more than 2-5 guys per day (tops).  

Other ladies want just the "exclusive" clientele.  Their phones ring even less often, but they get more $ per visit.  These ladies tend not to care if their phone rings less often.  They might be ladies who "did their time" at $225 per hour and ended up with enough higher paying regulars that they do not need the extra work anymore. Their phone rings all on its own.  But they are smart enough to realize that clients go away, so they keep a presence just to capitalize on new biz if the need arises.

The thing is, you can't come in to a market as a hobbyist and say "this is market rate x"  because the market does not revolve around just you and your likes.  It serves many masters.  As some of the providers have said, there is something for everyone (and there really is).  Sometimes, when a guy realizes what his "something" is, he is not satisfied with it, and he gets mad.

A man might notice that a certain lady he likes has suddenly raised her rate.  He might not realize that the rate might be going up to curb demand rather than to see a spike in her earnings.  A lady will set her rate respective to how often she wants to work (or to maximize dollars earned on current demand levels).  If the lady finds herself not busy enough, she'll either lower the rate, or start posting specials.  And I see specials on here very very often.  That right there shows that this market is not something that can be cornered.

If a certain group of ladies IS meeting in private to try and control market rates, let me say this: with such a healthy market, trying to do so would probably cost them dollars in the long run.  There is so much competition that a hobbyist will wander on to a better deal if he sees one.  This is an extremely healthy market.

my earlier comments I'll take a moment to clarify.

Thers is and always has been a healthy "wholesale" market here. On average I pay less then 60% of "retail" regardless of "high end" or not. This was and is a reality....my objection and decision to part ways with the "inside crowd" was in reaction to an active desire to exert control. I was pretty much told NOT to post info on "unapproved" providers if I wanted to keep my deal.

You browse thru all the "Thanks for the great times" posts here recently and every single one of them is from guys enjoying VIP pricing. The parties are now controlled by the same folks. In general more and more of the 411 you have here is filtered....just like your choices on phoenix411 are.

So if your one of the guys seeing the local lovelies here at VIP rates you've got it good....if your not then trust me you want to stop by and fill out your membership application at the party.

At this point I could care less, I agree completely there is a healthy and growing market "out there"....and occasionally it trickles over to here. But with so many of the heavy hitters "under wraps" very little real 411 is out anymore.

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm new to this particular group and this scene. Most of the "inside crowd" you describe are skanks, so I'll not miss-out on anything. I'm aware of the ass-kissing from their "white knight"s, and the reasons why they kiss such ass.  I just wonder how and why these men settled on such a lower quality of whore to swear their permanent loyalty to.  There are so many gorgeous girls out there that do not belong to this "skank mafia" we see on here every day. Why kiss their asses?  Is it solely because of the bargain basement pricing you VIP guys can get with them? from what I see ontheir websites, they'd be lucky to get that pricing "out there".  Perhaps the VIPs are the only thing putting cash in their mattresses.

I know about how certain girls "pay to play" on this forum and how others mysteriously vanish along with their profiles (that were written by hobbyists). I know how it works. We'll see if this post survives moderation. Probably not, but I'm not into curbing my opinions to adhere to a certain group's oddities.

Straight outta da pages of pimposaphy:

The key to how tight your front and clout has to be to get broads on your tip supa tuff depends greatly upon your environment.  Now, when I talk about your environment, it has nothing to do with the weather.  Environment refers to the area you live and the different social and financial factors associated within.

First of all, from a general standpoint, pimps do not adapt to their environment.  That's what playas do.  Pimps are like dinosaurs. If conditions are not favorable, they die.  If a Pimp's environment became unproductive, did he stay there and make it work?  Hell no!  He picked up his s**t and moved on to greener pastures.  Pimps rarely if ever compromise.  Just like hoes, it is their way or the highway.  If the environment you are in isn't conducive to pimpin', more often than not hoes are making runnin' thangs and can't no man say squat.  If at all feasible, seriously consider moving.

A common mistake a lot of men make is to go above and beyond the
call to get a woman (i.e sympin').  This you will see a lot of the VIPS do and chase da phx411.

If there's one thing the 480 needs, it's a few more pimps! Just not enough of them in this town to meet the demand.

Well said, my brotha!

you sir are the master.
Teach on Padawan!

Since this seems to be in a angry tone altogehter, let me just start by saying I have NONE. I do not know your name so I do not know if I have ever seen you before or not..so take this in stride.

Who is this "in crowd" lol. Sounds like high school stuff.

"Glen" I take it that you work...to earn money, most likely the most money you can earn. Why would you expect anything less from this industry?

Keep in mind when working with an agency we kick money up to them, so that fee does not all go to us.

I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for (98% of the time anyways hehe). I think we have fair prices...maybe you disagree and if so I am sorry. You as the consumer have the option not to use our service, which you have stated, like any intelligent man, you know.

I have been in this business for about 6 months, so forgive me that I am not as versed as you are.

They are scam artists in EVERY business, doing mortgages I saw them, bartending through college I saw them...thus is life. Sometimes people just suck at life = ) If a provider is ripping you off than a review should be posted about what happened.

Providers are always going to want the most they can make, and the clients are always going to want as much as they can get, for as little as they can get it for. This is a money making business. Everyone is playing "the game".

The only thing I do not like about your post is referring to providers as "whores" - and you did not say ALL of them, but the way it was worded was a "lower quality whore" - I guess opposed to us "high quality whores"? I have pretty thick skin but words can hurt sometimes. And the new way I have started looking at it is NO ONE, client OR provider should be casting judgment on one another. Never fool yourself into thinking we are all money grubbing hoes with this "skank mafia" mentality or whoever you are talking about. If prices go above what you like, then boycott who is doing it. If it's everywhere, best advice I can give you is get some KY and a box of tissues....WAY cheaper. = )   And I hope you know I am just busting your balls. I just wanted to make a point that the demeaning words used above are very hurtful and I know I would appretiate it if you never used those terms when ever referring to me if we ever meet.