I apologize for use of the alias, but I did not want other parties' names associated with this email.  I recently hung out with a provider who gave me the "scoop" on several indie and agency providers, two of which I have seen (not reviewed).  I did not ask for the "scoop", but I have to say that since that conversation, I have been quite down.

I mean, I previously chalked up the whole experience to two adults engaging in a consensual business-social transaction.  But I had no idea how many providers are using the $ to feed a monkey on her back or how many have a history of abuse.  I naively thought I could tell if someone was strung out on a visit, but often, that is not the case.

I really do not want to see a provider who falls into these categories.  I just would not have any fun.  But as a hobbiest, how do you make that determination?  Does it really matter to you other hobbiests out there?

I speak for myself on this one:   Maybe too much time, too much money, the lifestyle, the emptiness....  I was one of those you describe with a monkey on the back. Sometimes too drunk to even function, waking up in the middle of the floor in the house with glass broken and blood all over- not even knowing how I did it.  Addiction is a horible thing. I am happy to say that I have broken out of that prison and find myself a happier person- better mom- better friend.  I'm still a nut, but a nut without the booze.  I had to change everything in my life to do it.  I had to STOP talking to all my old "party" buddys (they knew I quit drinking, but still envited me to parties with booze and drugs), move homes, etc.  It has been a complete lifestyle change, but hopefully I will live to see my grandchildren (and maybe their kids). Now that I am sober I don't like to deal with clients that are drunk, strung out, or smokers. If you wan't to try to avoid encountering such people, perhaps mention that is a big issue for you (before you book the call).  All you can hope is that the provider is honest.

the grocery/liquor stores are exploiting addicts, the casinos are exploiting addicts - and while we are on the topic of addictions - the providers are exploiting at least half the hobbiests out there (have you met your bretheren? do you know how often some guys see providers?)

also those who wear a history of abuse on their sleaves are probably (in my admittedly worthless opinion) least affected by it and may (in many cases but by all means not all) be using it as an excuse

does that make it right?  no, but that I can ring out a list of a whole bunch of things that arent right - starting with Isaballa Manelli's return as provider at a rate of $1500/2 hours (but damn! doesn't she look good?)

(Note to Isabella - with your preemptive posting a few days ago, I just could not resist - you are the bomb!)

-- Modified on 1/19/2006 7:27:12 PM

-- Modified on 1/21/2006 8:47:30 AM

Why would you sit and listen to it first of all. AND why would you believe something without questioning why she would spend YOUR intimate time talking trash about other ladies?  I haven't met any ladies here in Phoenix that have drug issues. I also don't see why someone would be talking about abuse of themselves or anyone else during YOUR time. You poor thing that must have been some great session
  You must not be very bright.

My response to your point that I should have not listened and left is that you obviously have a very limited conception of how conversations actually occur.  You also incorrectly assumed that she intended to "trash" other ladies, which was actually far from the reality.  The reality is that we were having a cup of coffee and the discussion started with the extraordinary efforts that those who participate in the hobby take to care for others in the hobby.  But the circumstances surounding the my conversations with other providers (who said what about who and whether they are telling the truth) is the stuff of gossip, and most importantly, was not the point of my post.

As for my not being very bright, for the record, I happen to be a member of Mensa.  But it doesn't take a Mensa member to be a conscientious and critical thinker, and I always find it supsect when the first response to an observation is to shoot the messenger.  Obviously the issues I raised in my posting DO exist in the profession (see the other posts), so why don't we discuss the issue instead of the issuer?

-- Modified on 1/19/2006 7:31:07 PM

-- Modified on 1/19/2006 7:44:57 PM

1) you have no idea if what you are told is true or not

2) if it is true- well it is their life and they will live it how they see fit. You cannot keep an addict from using.

3) if it isn't true- someone has a serious personality flaw and is unsure of themselves to the point that they are "bashing" other providers

4) let's wake up and smell the coffee- sex, drugs, and rock and roll have gone hand in had since the begining if you thought that this industry was any different you were choosing to be naive.

5) as far as eliminating people that fall into the category- you can't. If I ever learned anything in my life I learned that there is a thing called a functioning addict. Some function better than others- you may never know. Keep an eye out for odd behavior or inconsistancies. That is all you can really do.

6) be safe , play hard, and realize that even though there are ladies out there with "issues" it by no means reflects on us all.


I too was similar to Sedona at one point years ago. I just had to wake up one day and have the thought "What am I doing?" pop in my head. Can't say I was ever addicted, but I was caught up in the fast paced lifestyle. What was I supposed to do as a teenager in college? Pretend I was the Virgin Mary? Everyone has phases and everyone has issues wether it is gambling, drugs, drinking, overspending, control- or my favorite- SEX!

-- Modified on 1/19/2006 7:19:44 PM

I certainly am not qualified to speak for all, or probably even most hobbists.  I can say, for myself, however, that I would not want to do anything to hurt any Provider.  

What she does with the money I give her is, finally, none of my business.  I would like to believe that all of the girls use the money they make from me to make better lives for themselves and to live up to all their potential.  That said, I would also like to believe in Santa Claus, and that World Peace is only a day away.

The best I can say is that I will treat the Providers with whom I am fortunate enough to spend time with kindness, respect, and dignity, and I will hope that my fellow hobbyists do the same.  I don't believe that deciding not to see a Provider who is using the money unwisely will keep her from a drug habit or whatever other poor choices she may be making.  

I do believe that if enough of the good people decline to see a Provider because she has problems that are really none of our business, she will find others to use her services anyway, but these people might not be as nice as we are.  By declining to see a Provider I like, it seems to me, I increase the odds of her ending up in a situation none of us would like to see her in.  

You can't stop a drug problem by cutting off the funding for it.  You only make it more likely the addict will do something we wish she wouldn't in order to obtain the funding.

So, as far as my concern for the Provider, I don't think it's my business.  As far as my own enjoyment, if she seems strung out, it's going to detract from her performance.  I won't be as likely to see her again.  I've seen one who I am sure was at least stoned when I saw her.  It was a brief visit, and she did her job, but I won't be returning.

It's none of my business what anyone else does with their private lives, but I can decide who I will see.  If a girl provides me with excellent service, I'll be back until she fails to provide the level of service to which I have been accustomed.  If she uses the money in ways with which I might not agree, it's really no more my business than it is the business of my employers what I do with mine.  (I'm sure they would never approve of my participation in the hobby, but I don't feel they get to make that decision for me.)

Too long a post for a simple point:  It's up to the Providers to decide how to spend the money they earn.  It's up to me to decide with whom I want to spend my time.

Fred

...an aspect that seems to have eluded a few of the previous responders.

Well from someone that has heard lots of crazy stories through the grapevine over the years I would take those "scoops" with a large grain of salt. I would also question the motivations of anyone just volunteering such infomation when it wasn't asked for.

As for it mattering to other hobbyists, probably yes but people with substance abuse problems come from all walks of life and occupations. You might not always know who they are but as Sedona pointed out in her story, only they can be truly responsible for their plight or their salvation.

-Glen

I can understand what you are saying Sedona.  I have experienced something similar.  I quit this business and lost many friends. My time spent with them when they were sick didn't matter, financial obligations, ect..ect..  It amazes me how people use you.  It's good to stay away from those people who bring you down.  Especially when you are trying to stay sober.  Your friendships should go well beyond that of getting drunk with each other. When you change your life for the better you often find yourself wanting people to make the same wise choices.  People need to make changes when it works for them.  I have quit smoking myself, but find that I can still handle being around my friends.  I wouldn't want them to feel ostracized because I have found the light, so to speak. However, I would have a talk with them if It made me feel tempted or uncomfortable. Your true friends will always understand and perhaps notice your example. Congratulations on getting your life together.  Life can be just as interesting when you are sober.  It's nice to know that you are capable of being a better friend now.  As I'm sure many would enjoy your company

so why not bring up in context to coworkers or employees or bus drivers or pilots or the guy in the car next to you on the freeway?  I'm more worried about that guy driving that two-ton car than I am about a provider feeding a habit.  Besides, what she does in her life is not really my business unless it affects me.  If she shows me a great time and is safe, what the hell do I care what she does after I leave?

And I'm sorry, but bringing up Mensa does nothing to show how bright you are, especially when it comes to gullibility.  Make a good score on a test and you qualify?  And yes, I'm qualified to join, more qualified than just about anyone.

to pass up without saying so. I just want to pinch your cheeks!

Oh, and.....

I'm charging that much so I CAN support my drug habit.....

Ciao, ; )

Isabella

I do believe that if you have nothing good to say, don't say it at all, but I'm positive they're several girls working that have a crystal and/or pill problem. The solution is to stay away once you find out and go to one of the many clean providers.

I couldn't admire someone more right now. I love it when people are honest and forthcoming about their life changes for the better. Maybe it will help someone else.

Hugs,
Ciara

Do you believe everything you hear?Do you not think that maybe that lady might be trying to stop you from seeing other providers?This biz has some of the greatest ladies I have ever met.I have also ran into the jealous ones that get mad if a gent tried to see other ladies or make up crap about another lady to try to hurt her.
 

-- Modified on 1/19/2006 10:57:19 PM

-- Modified on 1/19/2006 11:04:13 PM

First of all saying things about other ladies being addicts or abused is not in any way nice even if she tried to make it sound like she was concerned or friends with them. That is talking badly about someone. PERIOD. Second to just believe it and mention it here is not very bright. You are probably an awesome smart person but not on this subject. You have to investigate things for yourself not listen to some else no matter how much they are trying to make it sound like they aren't trashing someone else. ANY kind of talk about someone else other than themselves that is negative and would make you not want to see the other girls or post this here is trashing someone. Sorry I offended you I am sure you are very nice but please think about this.

If I have to pay 1500, then how can i support my own drug/heroin/crack/meth with used needles drug habbit?  lol...xoxoox

Awise point.  Not long ago, I had a 4 hour session with a very well known person that went steadily downhill as she got extremely drunk, all the while trashing other providers who were allegedly on meth or coke.
  After the disastrous evening, I had a long talk with her about getting some help and offering my friendship if she wanted it.  It turned out to be  an empty gesture as it became increasingly clear over time she was not ready to fully grasp the severity of her problem. As such, the only available response was to back away.
  We all have problems.  To say you will not patronize someone who has a substance abuse problem will put you in a tightly wrapped cocoon.  Try to understand there are a number of addictions , including food, drink and chemicals.

My limited experience has been entirely the opposite and I have been pleasently surprized that I have met mostly intelligent consenting adults that have a variety of motives for what they do. If I felt that someone was forced into this either by someone or circumstances such as addiction I would have a difficult time sleeping.
I also a little bit of a "germaphobe" so I wouldn't want to wonder about catching something. That being said as you can see by reviews some people would rather get as down and dirty as they can whatever the cost. I'm not one of them

Oh, Isabella-

All that and a wicked sense of humor too?!  Will you marry me?  

Seriously, you had awesome reviews before, but now, look out!  (I am not sure if you actually had a physical change or just a better photographer.)  I am absolutely sure that you are worth every penny, and to be honest, I am afraid that if I try you out, I'll get hooked...well, let's just say that my 401k and stock options would be gone in a matter of months!  Not only that, but it is hard enough to book an hour with my schedule, much less two (as a certain agency manager will readily confirm).  Maybe I'll treat myself to a three-hour extravaganza for my birthday (damn! that's 9 months away).  Can I book it now?

In any case, ciao back at you -

-- Modified on 1/21/2006 8:51:09 AM

-- Modified on 1/21/2006 10:39:17 AM

I agree with your statement.  But there are also certainly noticable differences in various social/economic classes.

For example, certain high-stress professions tend to suffer disproportionately from certain addictions - primarily, prescription drugs, which are expensive, but legal.  A far more significant fact are those whose parents abused drugs/alcohol - the statistics behind the cycle are alarming.

Some argue personal bankrupcty rates have gone through the roof over the last 10 years because of addictions in the form of impulsive personal consumption fueled by the incredibly more sophisticated marketing techniques in all sections of production that have developed over the same time period.

That's the proverbial egg. But what about the chicken?  Those who might have an addictive personality/existing addition at a relatively young age (too young to start/finish college or graduate school) will tend gravitate toward professions that generate relatively quick sources of cash under the radar.  In this respect, I concede that the hobby is not the only profession that falls into this category.  (From my own admittedly cursory research, the most prevelant profesions are professional theft and dealing drugs.)  However, my observation is that there is a relatively larger percentage of providers with addiction/abuse than the average bus driver, etc. as a matter of economics.

The problem with meth is particularly alarming.  The current estimate is that 1 in 3 high school students will try meth at some point - most more than once.  Now combine that with the fact that meth is highly addictive and a gateway drug to the much less-expensive substitute - herion.

Much of the responses to this post boil down to the following point of view (which I previously held):  those would hang themselves will do it with or without you, addicts will not stop until they decide to stop for themselves.  My only point is that, accepting that as true, I really do not feel right providing the rope (or even a strand of it).

I should say that I had seen two of the providers and never would have noticed - in one case, a serious addiction, and in another case, a rather elaborate history of parental sexual abuse that has never been addressed by formal phychological counseling.  Then there are the various efforts that other providers, hobbiests, and those in the periphery have taken to help that person out (which was the actual context of how the topic came up)...all to no avail.

-- Modified on 1/21/2006 8:51:56 AM

always comes back to bite you in the ass. If a hobbyist asks you something about a provider, then say, "I know her, she's lovely," or "I don't know her, so I could not tell you. It wouldn't be fair," or "I don't discuss other providers when I'm supposed to be spending quality time with someone." Wink! "Heresay" is the worst form of flattery. Wink!

Hugs,
ciara