A few days ago I was asked to supply a reference for a gentleman I had seen in another city. I responded saying that he was great and treated me well and that I would gladly see him again. I received a call about three hours later from her saying that  he smelled really bad and when she asked him to shower he said he forgot his phone in his car and would be right back.  He did not return.  I told her again that he was clean and respectful with me. I also told her that maybe he didn't know how to tell her he had changed his mind. I thought that was the end of it.
     Then the e-mails started with both copying them to me. He was complaining that she doesn't look like her pictures and she was complaining about him smelling and basically stiffing her. Now it has gotten ugly and she is sending out bad client  warnings.
  Now my question is what should I do? I stand by my reference even though with all the mud slinging I would not see him again because of comments he made in his response to her about ladies in our profession. I do not like being in the middle and I am requesting that they stop bringing me into it.  However, I am concerned that since she is sending out bad client warnings that people will begin to question my referals.  I want to know how others would handle this situation. Thoughts?

Donna

There really isn't anything you can do..

How long was it from your first date with him...til the time this provider mailed you ? 2 months ? 1 year ? I dont give references if i havent seen them in over 6 months. How do i know they are still on the up and up?

Another thing. I think he wasnt happy with her look most of all, and decided against it.

I saw him just two moths ago. I like your policy of not giving a reference if you haven't seen someone in 6 months.

I am sorry to hear that you got wrapped up in someone else's drama, but you must know that you didn't do anything wrong. Everybody in every profession has their good and bad days.  You caught him on a good day, she caught him on a bad day.  All you can vouch for is your experience with him, you can't be responsible for researching his entire psychological profile!  I do think it is entirely inappropriate for them to be bringing you into this.  I can't speak for providers in other states, but I feel pretty certain that everyone here in Phoenix knows and respects your judgement.  We know that you have everyone's safety and best interests at heart.  I don't think your references will ever be questioned here.  
XOXO,
Jackie, Club TLC

Donna:

I was handling this situation completely back channel with the ladies it concerns, which is the San Diego ladies. I did not feel "stiffed". The man didn't see me. He walked in the room, hugged me, took two steps toward the shower and told me that he needed to go out to his car to get his cell phone. He didn't stiff me.

However, I also am confused as to why you brought this to the Phoenix board when the situation occurred with a San Diegan in San Diego. I thought I assured you over the phone that I did not blame you in the least. The gentleman treated you well, so there was no reason to think you gave a bad reference at all! I assured you that I have been in this business long enough to know that while a gentleman may treat me very well, he may treat the next lady completely differently. You did nothing wrong, Donna, and I would completely trust a reference from you even still.

Also, I'm not sure why you feel put in the middle. I included you in my response as well as showing you his email so that you could see exactly how I was being treated. Using the words Whore and Prostitute and accusing me of not showing my face because I don't look anything like myself and stating that I don't have a "carreer" (his spelling), is flat out wrong, rude, mean and disrespectful.

This business is based wholly on trust. On the parts of both providers AND hobbyists. This gentleman is a loose cannon. I know two ladies in this business who have been murdered in the last two years I've been in this business. Ladies need to be made aware as do hobbyists when people are treating each other poorly. That is a very vital part of the unspoken trust between we ladies and the clients. We look out for one another.

My final word on this is simply this: Your name was not mentioned to ANYONE regarding this situation. HE is the potentially bad client. No one asked me who his reference was and if they had, I would not have told them. So, in effect, by posting this to a board in a state it does not affect, you've made yourself look like a potentially unreliable reference. This should have been kept private and back channel. This is exactly the sort of thing that keeps me away from the boards and the public as a whole.

Please, keep this back channel, out of the faces of clients and ladies it doesn't affect. None of this occurred in Phoenix, it shouldn't have been brought here and it should not have been made public in this manner. And frankly, you said you wouldn't see him again as a result of the nasty, disrespectful things he said in his email...so where is the "sticky situation"?

Respectfully everyone's,

Megan

PS My apologies for my contribution, but since this does affect me in a very small way, I thought it imperative to respond to her quest for advice.

You seem like a very nice girl from our brief conversations on the phone. And yes he was very nasty in his reply to your e-mail. And as I said I would not see him again because of what he said but I also saw your e-mail to him originally and it was not nice either. He was wrong in handling it the way he did by just making an excuse and not being honest, but with you calling him and writing him did you handle it right? I think most of us at some point have had this happen but isn't a guy leaving and making up an excuse better than him being nasty to your face? Or even worse seeing you and writing a review saying unfavorable things? All  No I have not made myself look like an unreliable reference. This man was clean and very respectful when he saw me. I gave an honest reference. As I said to you in my e-mail earlier I will be sure to pass on your problem with him if he ever uses me as a reference again as well as my experience with him.  I will ask for an opinion when I feel that I need one and nobody mentioned your name or said anything about the two people involved. You did that. I do wish you the best and as I said earlier I hope you can both let this go.

Thank you,
I agree with the good and bad days and I agree that we all have to be aware and take care of each other even if we are not all best friends. I have had to struggle here for respect and I try very hard to make good decisions and handle my things properly so that I don't loose that. If that means asking for advice so I don't make a mistake I do it. You are very wise and I enjoy your posts and will take your advice. Thank you again.
Donna

Just another example of what I have been saing for years. NO REFERENCES GIVEN OR SUBMITTED TO.

It could have been worse, you could have given a refernece to a LE agent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no provider should ever give references and no agency should ever give references or verify their potential clients.  If I am wrong in my interperation of your post please correct me.  If that were the case it might be that you and many others would never get to see anyone.  Checking the validity of a hobbyist has been a key element of helping to keep providers safe.  While there are many ways of checking someone out knowing they have seen other providers is a key to believing they are okay to see.  Times are different now even from when i started 15 years ago.  Back then it was you name and what time.  I am afraid those days are gone forever.  Just my thoughts.

Reonna, I have to agree with Megan

This is not a he said she said. My reference is not in question. The guy was great when he saw me. Ugly things were said on both sides between the two when it could have been left alone and not provoked. That is not class and style it is childish. I agree with letting people know when someone is being nasty and saying bad things buit maybe the original e-mail that provoked his comments should have been sent along with his response to it. You can question anything you like and you can even choose to not take references from me but I did nothing wrong here. I know we are supposed to stick by our friends but even our best friends can be wrong in handling a situation at times.

No one is going to refuse your references and if they do based on how one man treated someone else, then it's their loss.

Let's put this to sleep now. Nothing is being gained here at all. I'm sorry for including you in my correspondence with him and I'm more than happy to accept a reference from you in the future, sweetie.

Megan

this is another example of a thread that needs to die quickly. In my opinion, this is wasting board space for more appropriate topics.

NiceGuy

arrived in Phoneix and meeting you while you worked for Mya I will tell the world out there you are a beautiful person inside and out.  I had a great time and I know most will.  You are a most intelligent lady and bring more than just a mundane session to the table.  So NiceGuyForU is right lets end this thread and move on.  I and many others love you much.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The whole reference policy is stupid and dangerous. How do you know who you are giving references to? How do you know who you are giving references on? Are you doing it face-to-face? Once LE gets a hold of anyones cell phone or black boo, they have access to all the info they need to frame anyone.

And what about the reputation of the person giving the reference? I give a great reference about someone I have a great time with, and she does not click with the one I refered to. Now i am the A$$.

Worse, I give a reference to a provider and the client beats the $hit out of the provider. Am I responsible? Morally? How well do you know the people you are giving references on?

As I stated before, and you can see from my lack of reviews, I have even stopped reviewing providers. What happens between me and a provider stays between my and the provider. The only reviews I will be writing are rip offs. Fortunately, I have been lucky so far, and not had to do that!!

CoyoteFan:

May I ask how we should screen you gentlemen if not with other providers? In a hobby which relies quite heavily on trust, discretion and privacy, this seems to be the most comfortable way for most gentlemen to be screened.

The only other real option for solid referencing would be to ask for the name and number of the switchboard at your place of employment to verify that you actually do work there by asking the receptionist to connect me to you. I find most gentlemen are uncomfortable giving this much personal information to a stranger who may or may not abuse the priviledge of the information.

So, what would be a better solution if we're not going to ask other ladies you've seen to vouch for you?

Megan

Client/Escort relationships exist partly due to the fantasy of a fling with a beautiful woman (one that you can pick, somewhat, from a large "menu") and partly due to the fact that it is a private meeting. Because of the privacy of the meeting, it is hoped (by both sides) that the mutual expectations are fully met. If they are NOT met, then things could get ugly. Since it's a private meeting, things could easily turn bad... especially under the theory of "what's to lose?"

So, it is very easy for a client or escort to be great to one party and horrible to another.

It's unfortunate you are in the middle of this, but you told the truth based on your personal experience. You did your part correctly.

They dropped the ball on their end. Unfortunately, these things happen. Both that escort and that client should have known this already.

Just my two cents.

Let me ask a question.   Whats the purpose of the reference check?  Is it to make sure the previous provider saw the hobbiest therefore he is not LE?  Or is it that the other provider approved of the guy?  There is a big difference between the two.  If you want some other provider to 'vouch for' someone, don't you think this is a little unrealistic given the 'fleeting' relationships we all have? HTF does another provider know what the hygiene habits of someone else that they saw once or twice might be.  IMHO, Megan, you, MYA, and others take this Waaaaaay tooo far.  And I think Donna did do the right thing on this board since it happened in SD - she was being discreet.  Why don't you + Mya just get an honest job since you have so many complaints with the one you have???

There are two purposes to reference checks. 1) If it was LE, he would have arrested said girl and 2) It's good to know that the last lady he saw is alive and well. That's the point of reference checks.

I don't think it's unrealistic at all to work together, as a team, to provide a safe reference for another lady and to have one provided to me.  The provide may or may not know the hygiene habits of said hobbiest, that isn't the point. Hygiene can easily be taken care of if it's a problem, with a mutual shower which can be incredibly seductive as long as the hobbiest isn't afraid of soap and water.

I happen to love my jobs. Both of them. With all due respect, part of the game is reference checking for most legitimate ladies, Just. The only person furthering this issue at this point is you. People who are regular hobbiests know this is part of the process and they accept it because they respect the need for safety. It's fairly easy to check the legitimacy of a provider; Does she have reviews? Have others seen her who can back channel you, etc.? However, for we ladies, we're limited to checking references with other ladies in our occupation and in some cases, employment verification.

I have an "honest" career, as you put it. I happen to be a freelance writer and I enjoy that immensely. However, I also enjoy dating and have had nothing but GREAT experiences with both the ladies and the gentlemen here in Phoenix and San Diego. I can't recall a single time I've complained anywhere about this occupation.

I suggest that if you are not willing to offer provider references or employment verification, you stick to picking up women in bars. This is not meant to sound nasty, unlike your response, but it's clear you have no respect for the boundaries which exist for a reason in this hobby. Perhaps it isn't for you.

Respectfully,

Megan

No one "dropped the ball" so to speak. No one would have ever known that it was Donna who provided the reference had she not created this drama here on a board where it concerns no one in this city. I will not profess to know why she posted this. I handled it backchannel, as a responsible, private individual should, she felt the need to ask for advice. From whom, I'm still unsure.

I have been in this business for going on three years. I know that while a client may be peachy keen with one lady, he may treat another unfairly..or worse. The bottom line is that Donna and I are in different price ranges. The gent asked me on the phone why my rate was more. I had a feeling there was going to be a problem from the second point of contact with him. However, I didn't expect him to walk right out never to return and to respond with an email calling me a whore/prostitute, etc. I kept all of that on the San Diego board because it occurred in San Diego. I didn't troll for advice as I know how to handle the situation. It happens, no biggie. The guy's information should be passed around with the type of attitude he has for women who are not in his price range. As I said, I've known two ladies in this business who have been murdered. Could it have been prevented? Probably. I have a conscience, I could not live with myself if I'd read that Sally Sue had been killed by this man and i didn't bother to post a warning.

Donna isn't in the middle of ANYTHING as far as I'm concerned. No one has disputed that she told the truth, that she gave an accurate reference. No one at all. And no one dropped teh ball except for the client who suggested that I am ugly and should consider more make up and plastic surgery.  

Again, I have my own beliefs as to why Donna felt the need to post this here, but it's moot. She did, we're both trying to let it die but it seems there is some misunderstanding in the community which makes sense since it didn't occur here and it shouldn't have been brought here.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a dead issue.....so, can we all let it die? Please? I don't need the drama, I don't like this type of nonsense, it's mostly why you won't find me at parties or posting much on the boards. I just don't need the attention. I live simply, enjoy my occupation and don't need the limelight. But I wanted to clarify this for you since you wrote.

Now, can we put this to bed once and for all?

Regards,

Megan

I am sorry I cannot resist.
First of all I have had 18pm's about this situation. 12 of which were providers. All of which were positive and saying that I didn't need to worry as long as he was nice to me. So that said I think I was right in coming here and asking a question when I felt I needed to have assurance. Your name was not even brought here until you shouted it out.
You are the one that came over here with the accusations. You seem like a nice girl but you were in the wrong all the way around.
First off YOU called the guy FOUR times after he left, AND E-mailed him with a very ugly e-mail. You yourself told me on the phone that you called him four times till he turned the phone off! I also have a copy of the e-mail you sent him and it was every bit as ugly as his. What do you expect when you chase him down like that but an ugly nasty e-mail. He is an asshole but only an asshole. He is not a psycho.
So you can stop it with the Donna is wrong crap because in this I am not. We are not going to see eye to eye because you do not want to admit you made a mistake. It is done and it is over! NOW EVERYONE LET IT GO!!
Now can we get on to some positive things?? Like maybe some dirty jokes or some dirty PM's?????

-- Modified on 6/21/2005 9:14:13 PM

Donna:

I'm trying so hard here not to blow a gasket. YOU are the only one who was worried about people perceiving you to be in the wrong. JUST YOU.

Furthermore, I didn't call him four times. I called one time and left a single message, to which he replied in email, then I replied and CC'd you so you got the first email he sent me and the initial response back.

You know, I'm going to go back to not posting. THIS is precisely why I deal with no one on the provider end of this hobby. Drama drama drama drama. The guys don't like it, I don't like it and most of the girls who say they don't like it are always the ones creating it or in the thick of it.

I didn't say you were wrong a single time, Donna. Your comprehension is a bit left of center if that is what you read. My perception? You brought this here to get into the spotlight knowing darn well that I'd post and it would become a huge issue.  The only mistake I made was including you in the correspondence because clearly you felt like you were in the middle of something when all I was trying to do was to make you aware. I don't play he said/she said. I'm too old for it, thank God.

Again, let me just repeat this as my last sentence so that perhaps YOU can absorb it:

I NEVER SAID YOU WERE WRONG, NEVER SAID YOU WERE A BAD REFERENCE OR WOULD APPEAR TO BE, NEVER SAID A SINGLE THING ABOUT YOU IN ANY WAY.

Got it now? Let the drama go, it's making us both look like little girls incapable of handling things privately now that it's been brought here. I have a strong client base BECAUSE I don't get involved in this crap and I'd like to keep it that way.

Megan

Get over it. If you want to let it go stop going off on what I did because I didn't do anything to you. You have done it all yourself. I didn't say anything bad to you and I didn't bring any names here.
You can let this go or you can keep on talking till your blue in the face. Im tired of it so put a sock in it already.

Now......on to the good stuff!