I have a client… a provider who won’t pay her bill.  I wont post her name on the public board, I will allow her to try to resolve this with me for one more week first.

Story..
She contracted me to update some pages on her site, and stated upfront you know me and know I will pay. So I did the work without a deposit.  (silly me)  After weeks of being run around by this woman, its now a matter of principle. She won’t return calls or emails. I’ve tried above and beyond what should be necessary to resolve this.  

And before you ask, no I can’t revert her site back to how it was before the work…I  was forced to do that already when she gave me the run around the first few times/weeks. But she called and told me she would have the payment to me by the next day, so I put it back thinking she would honor her word. Since that time, she changed the password to intentionally prevent this.  I even told her if she cant pay or doesn’t like the work..then we can return the site to how it was before ..and just leave it there with no payment expected…but she said early on she loved the changes.  So i’m thinking this is proof that she is a rip off.
It cant be how much it is, her bill is only 100.00.

Anyone have any suggestions?

and you have the right to sue her if she does not pay.  I don't think this is a proper forum but I assume you posted here to try and force her hand.

Reenny stop it

Mya I dont know where you get off even commenting on this..but I will respond anyway.. There was alot more than a few minutes work. Redoing several pages, restructuring a new gallery, correcting exposure in photos, fixing lighting, resizing, color correcting, driving to pick up new photo 45 min each way.. and so on.. I dont know where your getting your pricing or work estimates from..but sounds like your ill informed at a minimum. I average about 10 bucks an hour on sites. So dont even go there...
My rates are more than fair and usually half of what anyone else charges... She wasnt even charge when new galleries were added to her site some time ago. Her expectation was in the range of 300 and I told her no..to me 100 was fair. So get your facts straight..or let folks speak for themselves.

I am a fellow web designer and while I don't believe this post belongs on a public forum...YOU are so way off base it's almost sad.

100.00 for picture update isn't an excessive rate.  Especially if he had to do ANY photoshopping/resizing and depending on how it is laid out.  If the provider didn't want to pay the rate...she shouldn't have agreed to it  and either done it herself or found someone cheaper.  Once something has been negotiated, regardless of whether or not it is a good deal you stick to it.  If she can't do it herself then it is obviously worth her money to have someone else do it.  In the real world, people pay money for services and not "services" for services.  and I so hope you were joking when you said that he makes more than you.  it must be one of your "merry band" that he is referring to or you would probably agree with him and then ask for a cut of the 100.00.  

I've watched you over the months just put people down and stick your nose where it doesn't belong over and over again and I haven't said a word and now im sick of it and i know other people are too.

Ya know.. its not worth it any longer. I did sites because I enjoyed the artistic challange of creating something new. I charged minimal prices, because I actually enjoyed it...but this simple takes all joy out of it.  I wish you all the best..im gone.

Reenny stop it

try taking it up with her one on one???

-- Modified on 6/26/2005 1:02:36 AM

If you gave her the rate up front and she agreed to pay it she should pay it.  
But on the other hand if the rate was not given up front and she has an issue with it she should let you know and try to work out a compromise.
There may be more to it and none of us know the whole story. If it can't be worked out you will have to let it go and get your money up front next time you work with someone. You were up front with me when you did my site and I paid you right away but I don't know your situation with the lady in question.

Reenny stop it

meet her half way.

I really think that you should expose the providers name so we can hear both sides of the story, that would be interesting.

The fact that this provider changed her password to prevent him from reverting the site to its old form, is a bad sign for the provider.
As far as Mya's remark about $100 for a few mins work.
I find it strange that a provider have issue with the cost of anybody's professional services.
Why is everybody tryingto put their hands in the pocket of the Tech community?

Interesting?  perhaps for some... but No, Its not the business of her competitors here to know who she is. The intent isnt to hurt anyones business, that isnt right. I posted because i hope she see's the post..because she wouldnt return messages..email or otherwise. If she does the right thing then great, im wrong about how it looks.  I asked the opinion of of folks here, and the consenus is.. learn from it. Its my fault for not charging upfront.

Loverboy, yes..it was posted because she wasnt replying to emails or calls.  Your suggestion for civil court though...NO. That is used when things turn ugly...and it has its down side... She doesnt deserve to have her name/info published in the newspaper along with what the matter is for. She hasnt taken me to a  point where id even consider it.

Ive given her a chance to do the right thing. If she does..then she does.  But even that is becoming a mute point. As you will read in another post here...im done with her..done with doing sites for anyone who thinks they can do that to someone. I prided myself on having to charge a deposit. I charged one half the total at the half way point..and the rest..only once the site was published AND approved by the client. I keep hearing the ladies saying how they were always paying high prices and being ripped off. I have never charged more than 600 total for a complete site no matter how many pages, no matter how many photos or graphics. It didnt even matter if they changed their mind on the theme or look and we changed it completely even half way through. It was about the work, the art, it was about giving the client what they wanted.  

So the net net is..i asked on the board whats right..and what im hearing is..you have to charge upfront. That goes against what i think is right. So I choose not to do them anymore.

..with THIS discussion board??????

If this is your modus operandi in business, then I suggest you take a few courses on business management.

Cheers!!

In this arena people  seek to break conventional  rules, indulge  hedonist fantasies and  push the boundaries of  physical pleasures.   Even our  small covert society has its rules and boundaries. Unwritten  but  understood by most who are active as  provider, hobbyist or in support roles. Respect for these rules and boundaries is at the heart of keeping the hobby safe and fun for all.
The details of this case may not all be public.  I have to wonder if the lady felt that her boundaries had  been threatened.  There is a fine line between persistence and harassment, regular follow up and stalking.  Lines  set by each individual and if crossed then instinct takes the lead with avoidance and defense.  It maybe best for the parties to settle privately  via mail or paypal and end further contact.  Let life and business go on in seperate paths for the satisfaction of both.

i think you should out her. if its just a buck the embarassment it would cause should make things even!
Also i need a good laugh!

Actually it is on topic if you ask me. I would hope Denny exhausted all reasonable means before coming here though. This discussion board is no different than a google newgroup in my opinion. Im quite certain if this provider had paid him upfront and he didnt do the work she might be posting here instead of him. Its amazing how quickly guys get jumped on in here for posting something negative and most people run to cover them. Yet when a provider blasts someone its not really questioned in the same manner. For those that arent well known regulars and have had the balls to post something negative because they felt it needed to be said know what Im talking about.

Having an MBA with honors from an Ivy League school currently running 3 successful business operations I dont need to take any additional courses. If this was Dennys only option then I back him on it, I just hope its not my ATF! Sure $100 isnt going to break him. Then again Ive known a few providers that have run into financial difficulties from time to time and $100 means paying rent or not

Either way I hope this all works out for all involved.

Denny...don't worry....you do not have to defend yourself if you have not done anything wrong. Just let it be and if she is an honest girl she will call and make things right. I am easily hurt also but you can't defend yourself against people who only want to antagonize you. It sounds like you have a lot to work out but it will work out.....you are well liked by a lot of people. If some want to be negative let it go...Know that you are supported and don't jump the gun because your sites are great and you can't let one bad thing influence your whole life. Did you not tell me that same thing not so long ago??

I can sympathize with Denny and I agree with Mya that this is neither the time nor the place.  To Denny, I suggest using the following:

a. a list of fixed fees for most of the services you provide and an hourly rate for all other services so no one is confused about the time and costs involved with certain tasks

b. providing a written invoice immediately after services are provided (including the amount of time spent on unlisted services)

c. when discounts are given, they should accompany an invoice that indicates a "friends and family" or "courtesy" discount has been provided so that the customer knows that a discount is entirely in your discretion

I give him an atta boy for bringing things like this to the forum. I also give him credit for not outing the provider. This forum is for information about provider and hobbiests alike. Providers have not problem comming here to vent about their "bad" clients why should'nt Denny.

A little econ 101 for you providers. $100 for 45 min worth of "work" is pretty cheap for marketing that generates $300 hr revenues for each time it attracts a new client. I think that you should charge more for your services Denny.

I have a slightly different take on this subject.      I disagree that this issue is a civil dispute.  Once Denny voluntarily restored her site, only for her to change the password changes this offense to a criminal matter.  Not being able to pay bills or dissatisfaction with the work is civil.  The provider crossed the line in the same manner as writing a check on a closed account, indicating an intent to deceive at the outset.  This is nothing more than theft by trick (no pun intended).
   Suing in civil court is meaningless as collecting a judgment against anyone whho deals exclusively in cash is impossible.  People think that if you get a judgment the Court helps you collect.  Not so.
  That being said, I leave it to your judgment if you think "outing" the provider will put pressure on her to pay. Be careful, because she may retaliate if she has any information which might embarass you. Perhaps a PM to your loyal customers  will be sufficient to pressure her to pay.
  In the future, if you decide to stay in the biz, either demand cash in advance (at least upon final delivery, and don't extend credit until they have developed a track record.s

Denny - I am new to this board and new to the Phoenix area.  I definitely understand your situation.  It's like anything in life - sometimes you deal with honest pepole, sometimes not.  I underline the fact that I am not from this area, but I have a REALLY GOOD IDEA who is involved just based on the fact that sedonaw and Mya were so vociferus.  I come from San Diego were Mya was ALWAYS sticking that UGLY snout in other peoples business.  I know she is not welcome there and it looks similar here.

I don't care who it is, but if you felt she was such a great person to give her a special deal, she must be pretty nice!!  I'll send $25 to you by Paypal, and maybe a few others will, and that way her bill will be taken care of, and both of you can get back to what you do best!!

Reenny stop it

Mya,

Weren't you one of the most offended and opinionated when I posted "it is only pussy" in which i stated that paying $200.00+ for sex was insane? Now you want to tell someone else that he is overpricing his services????? This from someone who charges a minimum of $350 for her pussy??

Maybe you should look in the mirror before telling ANYONE that they overcharge.

Or at least get the agreement in writing that you will be paid when services have been provided.

Thanks....
But there are no misunderstanding with her...she wont pay what she knows she owes. She suggested 300 was fair, and i told her no..the bill was 100. As far as fixed fees..well its all custom work..not templates that many use.  She is now someone who people with either not do business with, or charge her fees high enough to make sure they are covered.

Nice..no..she is proving otherwise. As far as deals.. I would do and charge the same rate for any client. The sites i do..i do because i enjoy the creative aspects. Maybe I should charge a great deal more for it..but i dont. And im not about to charge more to cover expenses when you get a rip off. Anyone paying for it but her..and it sends a message...