Greetings All,

I just had the pleasure (for the first time ever) of being turned down for an appointment with an established local provider.

Not a problem. In fact, the rejection is not the problem at all, and I want to be very clear about that. No, the problem is in the way the rejection was handled.

I provided a reference (as we all do with most providers we have never met previously). And I have absolutely no reason to believe that—if my reference was indeed contacted—she would have had anything but positive things to say about me (as she has so graciously done many times in the past).

Rather than indicate to me that there was a problem with my reference, I was told “I have a pretty stringent guideline when it comes to accepting new clients and after thoroughly checking references, I don't believe we would be a good fit.”

Holy f*ck, what the hell does that mean?

Really? Could you possibly be any more vague? Are you insinuating that I got a bad review from my reference? Not a good fit? Penis too big, too small, what? Did someone tell you I f*ck donkeys?

Look folks, sometimes things don’t go the way you want and sometimes a provider gets a bad vibe about you and wants to steer clear. I get that. But in a “hobby” where trust and your reputation are paramount, hiding behind deliberately vague insinuations is childish, completely unhelpful and, well, horsesh*t.

We hobbyists need to know if our names are being dragged through the mud.

this is bullshit.

Sometimes a provider will tell me when I am checking a reference with her and if she knows my taste in men and what I prefer she might say he's a nice guy but I do not think he is your type, if this is a provider that I trust I will then pass and hopefully the gentleman will find someone more suited to his needs. Instead of being upset look at it as favor you might of ended up with someone who just did not click with you better to find that prefect fit than spend time with someone that really is just interested in a paycheck.....Time is way to short for bad sex or cheap wine......Victoria

-- Modified on 8/22/2007 6:17:09 PM

"i dont believe we would be a good fit" means your penis is too big  

studcakes

-- Modified on 8/22/2007 6:16:14 PM

turned you down because of age or race.  I've never had this happen to me, but have heard plenty of stories [with that same response used].

My advice - move on and find someone you'll truly have a good time with.

...Just kidding. I heard it was chickens, but I certainly don't believe it.
Seriously, I had a similar thing happen to me, and it was both disappointing and upsetting. One behaves like a gentleman; uses the woman as a reference; and suspects a back stab. On the other hand, pity the provider who gets ignored in spite of good ratings because her tits are too small, too big, etc.
I just have to remember how fortunate we are. We've got a few excellent agencies and a bevy of great indies. I've been searching a certain Cali city for Asians, and they've got some, but they don't hold a candle to women like our own Cherry, an indie, and Nina of Desert Divas. BTW Cherry and Nina are close to being the top-rated Asians on TER, and that includes cities throughout the world.
Poon Valley is filled with very lucky guys, and I'm happy to be one of 'em.

..being a newbie to the hobby, recognizing that I've been deemed acceptible by two of the local agencies, and having had the privelage of spending some quality time with two stunning ladies.  When asked for a reference, say in another town, do I use the agency or the actual ladies??  It would be difficult to actually contact the ladies; however, the general opinion of agencies (other than the well respected ones in the VALLEY, a status generally unrecognized across the land) is negative.   knowwatimean?  Also, would I request a "white list" accreditation from the agency or the individual ladies?  I'm still a bit unclear on the white list concept, but I'm willing to learn.

Now this is a bit of a rhetorical question because I "think" I know the answer "agency"; but seek confirmation and any discussion.  

As for the subject of the thread, I would simply move on... life's too short to fret about all the potholes on the road of life and the Valley offers so many smooth by-passes.

Have a great day!

Compatibility, sadly, didn't enter into it. Here's her response:

"Your name and email address were on a list of 'undesirable clients' that I check when verifying anyone's references.  

"I will go further to say that it has been verified that you've provided 'bogus references' in the past and is also alleged that there was an issue involving force used on another provider for 'bareback services'.  (I say 'alleged' because I have not heard back from the provider to confirm.)  Unfortunately, even the most glowing reference from [name removed] wasn't going to be enough to relieve my hesitation."

See? Provide a reference (didn't ask for more than one) and then find out that an unconfirmed rumor (still waiting for that call from the accusing provider? Keep waiting, it ain't coming.) This is exactly what I'm talking about. At least now I'm aware what I'm up against.

You don't want to see me, great. Keep spreading this unsubstantiated crap about me and I'm going to have to call "bullsh*t."

This seems to be a recurring problem here in the Phx area.  I hope Chilopsis chimes in with his experience a couple weeks ago.  You need to let us know the providers name so that none of us will see her.  This board is by hobbyists, for hobbyists and is where this type of problem is addressed and dealt with.  A fair number of these girls will communicate through a back channel and share lots of personal information with each other and its not your penis size.  Do you take too long? Bad! You sweat? Bad!  Getting the picture yet?  Now lets know who it was and when she can't pay her bills and the others take note this kind of crap will end.

"This board is by hobbyists, for hobbyists"

This board is pro-provider and full of completely useless info where it is mainly dumb jokes, skanky pictures, white-knight shilling, etc.

In fact, the main "providers" that post ads and participate in this forum are either lacking business or have no life. Just look at the top 10 postings for the last 30 days, 3 months and 6 months. Sometimes I think these girls think they are on america online in a chat room.  

I have surfed this board for useful info and the only thing that I saw was the top dog, self proclaimed mayor put down a new provider calling her drunk and rude.  I'm sure most the hobbyist on here paid attention to that. That may have been some useful info for some.

This board is rarely, if that, helpful for providing useful info for the hobbyist and certainly not BY the hobbyist. In  fact, I don't think the moderator has any balls to even post this as he may himself be under the thumb of a couple of Phx providers.

I'm a newbie and may be missing something here...but I don't understand the reason for  such a strong reaction...I mean if a given provider does not feel that a particular hobbyist would be a good fit for her whats so inherently wrong with that? Should a hobbyist be obliged to accept the services of each and every provider who offers him that?

A provider has the right to refuse to see anyone for whatever reason, and I don't think that gives the community the right to tear her apart.

She doesn't need to explain herself to anyone but the person who contacted her.

We aren't talking about scheduling an accountant to do your taxes for you, there is a lot more involved than just payment for a service.  This is intimate stuff, and if something about you or the situation doesn't sit right with one provider, then you can contact another one.  Don't take it personally.

We have the right to choose the providers we want to see, and we use reviews and word of mouth to make those decisions.  Providers obviously have their own methods for choosing which clients they want to see, and people should respect that, even if they don't always like it.

I too was turned down in what was a rather poor fashion by a "well known and respected provider."  (her words)

Now that I know it has happened to others, I think I will post the details (without her name of course) and what other think.

Are you going to say her name after this happened to you? Sorry you had to go through with this for it is bs! Especially if you have seen her before and she always had nothing but nice things about you to other providers.




-- Modified on 8/23/2007 1:00:06 AM

you're right sometimes we do, its no secret.

alot of us share our clients with each other and of course we tell each other what the client likes, doesnt like...

similar to the way you review us but we dont get very graphic about the details and we dont publish the information.

the girl decided you werent compatible and saved you some cash.. you should be grateful she didnt just take your money anyway..

whoever she is, she is obviously concerned about her quality of service and didnt want to give you a mediocre session.

One of the freedoms afforded to independent providers is the ablity to choose whom we do and do not see.  While I do believe that discretion is the better part of valor, I won't hide when I'm being called out.

I do not know Updog.  I'm not aware of his age, race, religion, political loyalty, sexual preferences nor any specifics of his anatomy.

While references are important, they are not the only consideration given when deciding to see a new client.  Updog did offer a reference from an established and respected provider in our community.  Unfortunately, it wasn't enough for me.  (And I stress 'for me'.  Every provider has her own screening process and requirements.)  

As an Independent provider (and a fairly new one at that) it is not in my best interest to be so exclusive as to discourage new friends or risk depleting my current client base.  So, this is not a matter of randomly opting not to see someone.  There was a thought-process behind this decision that includes a great deal of my own personal intuition and concern for my own safety and comfort.

I had hoped to save us both some time by respectfully declining the appointment.  However, between the scathing emails from Updog and the TER uproar, it's obvious that more time has been spent on this than is necessary.  I am glad, however, that I was still able to save Updog some cash.  Shame on me.

Hobbyists that know me will say that I establish relationships that allow for a great deal of comfort and chemistry.  (I believe that's what a 'GFE' experience is all about.)

I am in no way making any judgement on Updog's character.  I'm sure he is a very nice gentleman under different circumstances.
I could have very easily accepted his request and his money.  (I have bills to pay just like the next gal.)  However, I have a great deal of respect for hobbyists and prefer them to get the most 'bang' for their buck.  Updog would have had to endure my lack of comfort during our encounter, which is not conducive to the type of quality experience I expect to provide.

The tone of Updog's emails and TER post calling for a witch hunt do not present the same quality and characteristics as the gentlemen I choose to spend my time with.  I discreetly and privately and respectfully declined an appointment.  Updog publicly cried for my head.  Fair enough.  

It is my own personal standard that there be a certain level of chemistry, comfort and security between hobbyist and provider.  I made a judgement call based on the information I had available to me and I stand by that decision.  
 
Burn the witch!



-- Modified on 8/23/2007 1:08:01 AM

No, I do not think you did anything wrong.You are right as providers we have everyright to turn anyone we do not wish to see..I was talking about about this gentelmans statement that this lady who gave the refrence had so graciously as he stated, done it a few times for him with no problems.
I was just wondering what has changed about him not to get a favorable refrence anymore from this lady?That is all.

-- Modified on 8/23/2007 2:15:25 AM

for real, im not trying to jump on your broom or anything but sometimes i am very bitchy.

Make mine hot, juicy & very rare.

thumb of"....I would like to know.....

Your posts have not been seeing the light of day recently because you have been the classic example of causing trouble for troubles sake.....you are one of the few moderated members of our community.....

What example are you looking for....buy a VIP and search the reviews....or better yet, write reviews and EDUCATE us....

D15

"You don't want to see me, great. Keep spreading this unsubstantiated crap about me and I'm going to have to call "bullsh*t."


Let's make sure we're keeping issues separate.  I declined to see you.  That is correct.

But I cannot be accused of spreading ANY "unsubstantiated crap" about you.  There is not a hobbyist or provider ANYWHERE that can claim I've presented them with any information about you.  Period.  I'm sure there are more than a few providers that can attest to the fact that my interaction is limited to checking references which can usually be responded to in two words or less.  I do not kiss and tell nor am I the one who started this thread.  YOU are the one who decided to include sordid details about your 'alleged offenses' in the above post.  Prior to that, no one had perpetuated any unsubstantiated crap.  

But I guess that's the best way to maintain favor when crying for someone's head on a chopping block.

I am a bit more discreet than to air dirty laundry that may cause someone to lose face in this community.  I handle my business BCD where it should be handled.  
I understand that not everyone shares that philosophy and I can respect that.

How often do you have to explain why you passed over a providers ad?  Do you ever have to defend yourself to providers you haven't seen as to why you haven't seen them?  

I guess the only thing to say is that I don't feel the need to defend myself any further.  I haven't said anything disparaging about you to anyone.  That's just not my style.  Just because I chose not to see you doesn't mean I'd hurt your chances to see someone else.  Much to the contrary, I would encourage it.  

by some of the posts, replies and reactions on the boards.

So basically, your main piss and moan is that you wanted to see a lady, and for whatever reason she declined you, and she didn't immediately give you all kinds of specifics as to why?  Does that about cover the first post?

Then when she gives you the specifics, apparently through email or other private correspondence, you post it and then piss and moan some more that she is bad mouthing you?  She is bad mouthing you to whom?  To you?  She didn't post it, you did.  She didn't attach any accusations again you to your user name, you did.  Only person bad mouthing you on these boards is you.

Then there were the posters calling for the lady's head with cries of "out the bitch", and one that wanted to make sure no one sees her and she can't pay her bills.

So, I take it the basic anger and banding together against a declined appointment request is the "I have money so do me whore!" mentality?

She declined, she saved you a possible less that wonderful experience and saved you the donation amount....yeah, there's grounds for anger.  Of course the guys that replied have reason to be pissed I mean...who would want to a lady that declines an appointment she doesn't want...nope, better to see the ladies that don't want to see you, but do anyway take your money and give you an "I should have stayed home" experience.

Then the unrighteous indignation, of the attitude that she had no right to decline you...again the "do me whore" thing?  Oh, and if your reference said nice things about you, for her to look anywhere else and make decision based on anything other than the word of the one lady you chose to speak about what kind of client you are...what an uppity bitch, huh?

I mean you guys don't look at reviews, back channel and research ladies...nope you guys contact ladies and just ask her to give you one name of one client that will tell you she is OK, and you go on just that one client's word, and trust that she wouldn't only give you the name of a client she knew would say good things about her...nah, you know she would give the name of client that she may not have had a good session with as well to be fair to you, so you could make an informed choice...

Oh wait you don't do that, if any guy said a lady gave him the name of one client to contact and put all his trust on just that, you would all call him and idiot, and say that was the stupidest thing you had heard....but that is exactly what you want the ladies to do when deciding to see you.

Well, not exactly deciding to see you really, as it seems you don't want them to decide anything, you just want them to see anyone that contacts them and can toss out one name of one lady he saw that he treated well...and if there are other ladies that say he didn't treat them well, then the lady isn't supposed to base anything on that she is supposed to ignore that, go into a room alone with him and take her chances that she hopefully is one he treats well.

DoC forbid that a lady decide anything right?
DoC forbid that a lady look at anything but a guy's hand chosen reference right?
DoC forbid that a lady make any attempt to protect herself right?
DoC forbid that a lady save you money and time and avoid a less than good session right?

A lady shouldn't do any of those things...nope you contacted her, you want to see her, you gave her a reference and you have money so the "whore should just do you" right?


Oh, and remember if in the future another lady doesn't want to see you because of accusations of fake references, force and attempts at getting BBFS...you posted it, not the lady you are so angry at.  You bad mouthed yourself genius.

I think a selective lady is one that gents would be MORE likely to visit with.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I have verified that you did not contact my reference about me at all. So you are, by acting on false information from a provider that I have not seen, continuing to keep alive erroneous accusations that have been directed at me.

Yes Aria, you are indeed culpable as you are claiming to check references when in fact you do not. How many providers have you passed my dismissal on to? Protest all you want, but the fact is that you lied to me and I have been nothing but truthful with you.

This certainly brings your integrity into question.

I brought this public because you and your “source” have taken such a dismissive tone with me. Your response was paramount to saying, “This is what I heard about you and if you don’t like it, tough sh*t.” More arrogant still was your attempt to cover yourself by using “alleged” when accusing me of inappropriate behavior—as if that allowed you to wash your hands of any responsibility.

Next time you feel like going on about your “stringent guidelines when it comes to accepting new clients,” you might actually want to use those guidelines and actually check the reference(s) you’re given.

That being said talk to the person you used as a ref and move on.

I have been rejected a few times lets see Porsche some others I don't remeber fake names very well.

The point is we reject women all the time its okay if they all don't love us.  As long as they all love me.

Well,  that's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Now this is about your reputation? How did you become the victim here?

I never mentioned your name,nor was I going to. Now they know I was talking about you. Well done.

My intentions were (and still are), after getting my facts straight, to let the community know that there may be erroneous information about them floating around the ether that they should be aware of.

And you are right, I am a nice guy. I don't doubt that we would have gotten on famously.

Sadly, I guess I'll have to go back to f*cking donkeys.

These are the jokes.

Name calling? Nice.

Great diatribe. You got all that from my post did you? You're good. Did you get a nosebleed way up there on your soapbox?

I'll use small words so you don't get confused:

Not about being declined. About false information (bad things) being said about others.

Lepton.

hopefully it was ten minutes well spent learning fro some very thoughtful posts....the whole point here was to get fedback  and I thought it was handled very well .....

Seriously, it's the donkey/duck combo that's pure magic.

You're so right MJ. I've had a wonderful time in this town and, up until this point, have never had a problem.

Certainly puts a good perspective on things. I enjoyed reading and the feedback comments.

From a hobbyist point of view, it is very difficult to schedule and plan a new encounter with a new provider. There is plenty of prep work that goes into it. To get turned down by a reference check does hurt the ego some. I believe it was this reaction and not the turn-down reason where all the anxiety is. I got rejected once because my reference did not remember me. So I just scheduled a session to get back on the first page again.

Thanks to all my good references out there.
(Mondo) the bowling guy.....

I have no direct knowledge of ANYTHING going on here. But a couple things are clear. Any independent contractor in any venue has the right to deny business to anyone for any reason. When you get denied it hurts and it can be humiliating. That does not make it wrong however. The simple truth is no explanation is required....EVER...for any reason.

Business is business and there will always be a "new kid on the block" in any line of work who is willing to work hard and to a good job for a REASONABLE return. As (in this case) "Ms. Newkid" builds her business she has the right to raise her rates and be more selective. The market will or will not support her efforts. While she may en devour to keep business by badmouthing other business owners or potential clients over time these things are seen thru.

Your under no obligation to see somebody because they posted an "ad" here (or elsewhere)...and guess what...no body has to see you just because you asked....grow up move on and realize you just lowered your standing in the community a notch or two...

OK.. so Aria is my ATF and I'll dislose that at the beginning.  I've known her for a while and know her better than some of my family.

Not only is she highly intelligent and intuitive, she is totally  honest and open about herself and only wants to ensure her clients are comfortable with her and her service.  She even blogged about how she always wonders if she could have done something better to make a client even more pleased that he chose her as a companion.

For that reason she is very selective as she would not want someone to feel that they have not made the correct decision to see her. Her selectviness makes me feel even more comfortable and special for getting to see her.

Stepping back and looking at the whole process of a provider meeting a client for the first time in person. I'm sure it is always a bit nerve wracking. Though most of us I'd like to think are gentlemen, there are some with attitudes not necessarily respectful of women or even worse.  I know one lady who was drugged and robbed by an out-of-town visitor who had good references, so even that may not always provide the comfort and security a lady would like with a new encounter.

If a provider has a reasonable doubt in her mind, I would think it's in her best interest to pass on a client (and yes, I've been rejected/ignored by a lady who advertises on CL ), but I do not hold that against her at all and figured it just was not meant to be.

Finally, I think it's great that there are the 'reviews' out there to let us know when a lady is not necessarily a great or even adequate provider.  It seems sad that there are people out here on TER as well as CL that want to run other providers out of business perhaps from fear of competition or just to be mean.  Surely there are plenty of us guys here and visiting from other places to allow a good customer base  for all those genuine ladies who do so much for us !

Just wanted to throw my $.02 into the fray. I'm sure the other folks who already know Aria will not be dissuaded from seeing her again by this whole fiasco. Folks that haven't met her yet, believe me, she will rock your world if you're a true gentleman! My admiration to her is greater for stepping up to face this challenge.

Aria, can't wait to see you again my friend !
bf

Well said TxToast.  Even though I only engage in the hobby occasionally, I used to partake quite frequently. Part of the reason for my infrequent activety is all the work required to discern compatibilty to ensure a positive experience.  I have found that when the chemistry is missing, the experience suffers regardless of physical looks of the provider.  So if a Hobbiest has difficulty getting a read on a provider (and don't get me started about reviews, they are definately YMMV based on chemistry, so if the chemistry isn't there, you will not have the glowing experience the reviewer had) imagine what the provider must experience trying to get a read on the hobbiest!  Look, these women are human beings who share their bodies with us in the most intimate ways.  Why in the hell would you want to have an experience with someone who is uncomfortable with seeing you?  And shut up already about the late accusations of providers spreading false rumors about people.  Get real, they are in business to make money (and the good ones enjoy their work, don't you like your job?) so I doubt many rumors start that don't have merit.  Why would they want to bite the hand that feeds them? Just some food for thought. WOW!  That was a lot to get off my chest!  

Mya , is right you cannot go by one young provider who put him on a do not see list. Even if you feel more comforable speaking with her.. you should check with others. UPDOG you are a great guy and I am sorry you went through this drama as Mya says stick with first class and come fly the friendly skys.....Victoria

-- Modified on 8/23/2007 1:43:21 PM

hence why I mentioned the replies and responses.


Of course from your very first post:

"Really? Could you possibly be any more vague? Are you insinuating that I got a bad review from my reference? Not a good fit? Penis too big, too small, what? Did someone tell you I f*ck donkeys?

Look folks, sometimes things don’t go the way you want and sometimes a provider gets a bad vibe about you and wants to steer clear. I get that. But in a “hobby” where trust and your reputation are paramount, hiding behind deliberately vague insinuations is childish, completely unhelpful and, well, horsesh*t."


From that it seemed you didn't know why you were declined and you were pissed about it. You mentioned her reply being vague and only insinuating twice in the course of two paragraphs.  

Of course with your more recent posts I guess that you knew exactly why she turned you down.  You knew what the other lady said, and so you knew that the basis was those accusations.

Me, I just went on exactly what you wrote.  Sorry, if your very words didn't accurately tell your story.

And just where exactly do you get that I was pissed about the rejection again?

Was it right after "Look folks, sometimes things don’t go the way you want and sometimes a provider gets a bad vibe about you and wants to steer clear. I get that."?

Oh, the anger, the anger.

I thought I was pretty clear that it was the vagueness of the reply that was the problem.

And just how exactly, could I how known "what the other lady said"? since I didn't know what the hell Aria was talking about the first place?

Again, should I put this in a coloring book format for you?

No indication of anger except maybe for the angry face you chose as a emoticon to put next to your post in the first place.

So, your problem is not that  alady tell you no, but that she doesn't explain in detail why she said no.
Gotcha.
I mean that is the least you deserve for contacting a lady right.  A delineated explanation for why she won't  see you.

No lady should ever just try and nicely tell you no huh?
Nope...she does that and you will start a message board thread about it.

Updog did not use Victoria as a reference, so there would have been no reason for me to contact her.  

I am intimidated by any provider that jumps on a bandwagon against another provider without all the information.  That much is true.  I prefer to keep my contact with certain providers limited as to avoid the catty name-calling, trash-talking and elitist statements that have no business on a 'hobbyist' board.  

My business was being handled BCD before Updog chose to get vengeful about being denied.  I merely claim that it is within my right to decline an appointment with anyone for any reason.  I don't care if his (one) reference was the Pope himself.  (Although in that case, I might also suggest we may not make a 'good fit'.)

In the meantime, I'm going to go back to partying in 'coach' where my fellow passengers are a little less "life-and-death" about this kind of crap.

I don't know, I'm enamored with Mya as much as the next guy, but sorting out providers (friends)by first class and coach is pretty bush league. Seems like yesterday that the gorgeous Mya had the "S" around her neck by this board when she left TLC. Amidst all the accusations and assumptions, I publicly vouched for her. She was great to be with and a pleasure to know. These boards used to be pretty decent and a good place to interact with providers.  A few years ago, there was much less providers and even less information available. I'll be honest, I've always used my instinct and man intuition before deciding to see anybody and still rely on that "gut feeling" more so than any review or recomendation. I can't help but assume that any safe and decent provider would do the same.
Everything seems to be he said, she said. Save the jr high drama for someone's myspace page. Any more, mosts of these postings are self-serving and about as useful as scribbles on a stall door.  Craigslist gone first class. It is concerning, however, that a hobbiest might be held hostage to a blacklist provider only page. If so, I can only hope providers use it with discretion. After all is said and done, what can anyone really do? I haven't seen a hobbiest Bill of Rights anywhere. One can only hope if you play nice you'll get treated nicely.

I think you've proved my argument more succinctly and intellectually than I did.

My attempt at a 'polite' decline did result in a demand that I "explain myself" rather than 'hide behind childish euphemisms'.

I explained and it only fanned the flames.

I know which lesson I'll take away from this one.

Let it go!  There are far too many.  I would rather be rejected because I smelled bad rather than because I am black.  I could change the smell but color I cannot change.  Her loss and of course her choice.

2 glowing references from 2 top providers isnt enough for me to discount a bad reference from a provider i trust.

nobody is an asshole to everybody but if he's an asshole to someone i trust, he's an asshole to me.

the fact that he's demanding her to explain herself is enough to prove she made the right decision.  i know i choose to see or not see a guy based on any goddamn criteria i want and anyone who doesnt like it can go f**k themselves.

she doesnt need to have a good reason.. she doesnt need a reason at all and she certainly doesnt need any one to approve her reasoning for her.


-- Modified on 8/23/2007 3:58:48 PM

and when I emailed you about a reference for him, you stated you did not know him.

I was sorry to see the details of the event become public; however, I believe it was good to have this discussion.  As a hobbyist, one of the reasons, for me anyhow, that I frequent TER is that I enjoy the GFE and like to find a provider compatible with some of my desires.  I would hope that the lady and I might connect and have an enjoyable time together.  I like the fact she will check references and if she feels we might not have a good time, she will just say so and then I’m not going to waste my time and money on session I would not fully enjoy.  The reason for us not being a good fit is not that important to me.  In my opinion, we don’t need to blackball Aria – just keep the details between the provider and hobbyist.

obviously, she didnt need or want your opinion so why would she waste time asking you for it ?

and why would you assume your opinion would be more credible than someone she trusted.

wow

Really, no offense meant here sweetie, but that "1st class" jibe has no business on this board.  We are all supposed to be cut from the same cloth.  Just because one provider charges more or has supposed better reviews, that DOES NOT mean that they provide any better a service than the next gal.  Almost everthing that determines those "reasons" are completely subjective anyway.  I'm also gonna have to say that the provider in questioned initially wanted to stay out of this, but was probably hurt pretty bad by all the comments from members of OUR community here.  Come on everybody, can't we all just get along?? (seems I heard that somewhere).  That being said, Mya, can I see you this weekend???  (just kidding, sweetie)

Great post WT.  Quite wise indeed.  Want to add one thing, though.  Aren't we supposed to be having fun?

One guy (I won't mention his name) -- and he will know who it is from this post, but I want him to read this, hopefully learn something from it and just move on -- contacted me about possibly becoming a regular and wanted a discount (before we ever met). My website states very plainly, "The expected Gratuity is already below market value. I do not appreciate clients asking for a discount unless I'm running a special." It wasn't that I was not willing to show him my appreciation if he were to become one of my regulars, but I was already having a bad day and the way he approached me the first time was rude and sounded cheap. I responded to him (with a smiley face) that he shouldn't try to ask for a discount from a respected provider before he meets her. His response wasn't too kind. So I responded back trying to be somewhat gentle (in case he took it wrong). So, I believe I just told him we might not be a good fit, but not before he stated to me: "I am a highly respected hobbyist. If your rates don't meet my criteria, I can live with that and just won't see you. I just don't think you rank up there with who I have been with. ALL have special rates with their regulars, an experience for sure you will not have with me.

Your day will come ole highly respected one, your day will come."

Gee, what a nice response, eh? If he thought I didn't rank up there, then why would he want to be my regular? I think he probably offers this to everyone. I haven't said anything so demeaning to anyone who has emailed me. I could have said, "You're a company exec and you sound like a child," but I didn't. Actually, his statement sounded like a threat to me. In fact, it scared me. However, I have never mentioned his name in a deragatory manner to anyone on the Provider Board, but what a way to handle business with a respected provider and someone you've never met. I even emailed him back to tell him about my smiley face and that his message was very unflattering. That is when he emailed me the response above. So I asked him not to contact me again. I have never given out his name or blacklisted him. Why would I do that? Because to others he may be a sweetheart, and perhaps if he would have explained himself more eloquently (which I attempted to do with him on my second email), he would have been able to schedule an appointment. Anyway, we all have our bad days, but after his rude response to my second email and his comment: "I just don't think you rank up there with who I been with," I would never see him. Hmmm, I had to laugh a few days later at his comment, because I get great reviews and give excellent service, but now I wouldn't see this guy if he offered me a million dollars. Too bad, his loss.

Hugs,
Ciara



-- Modified on 8/23/2007 6:54:24 PM

You say that the lady that is the subject of this thread got a good reference from another lady, and did not contact you, so that because of that she is somehow in the wrong, and that she didn't handle her business.

That it was one young lady that put him on a list and that that young lady should not have been listened to or given any weight in the decision to see the guy that started this thread.

If memory serves me correctly, a little over a year ago a guy from Phoenix (NOT the guy that started this thread) that had references saw a lady in Minnesota and beat her up.  After she posted about it a number of ladies from Phoenix and other cities came forward and said he had gotten rough with them as well.  It seems his behavior escalated over time. So, if one checked his references he would have looked like a good client...if anyone else had been contacted he would have probably not been seen.

Another time a couple years ago a guy from another city, had references seemed like a nice guy on the boards, and apparently had references ripped off a lady by way of an effort to see a lady using a CC, that ended up involving a wish list scam.  Now, if he were still around if a lady contacted his references he again would be most likely referred to as a nice guy...doubt his reference would be as glowing if a lady asked the lady he ripped off though.


So, my questions are...
Do you both think that a lady should just go by the references provided by the prospective client or do you think they might be wise to check other resources to insure their safety?

If a lady in the course of screening a prospective client finds something negative should she ignore that in favor of the reference from the lady he gave her the name of?

If you found something negative about a client that if true would keep you from seeing him, would you still contact his references or would you just assume they would say nice things about him since they were his choice of whose name to provide?

If you found out something negative that would keep you seeing a client, would you continue to research him or would that negative make you err on the side of your safety and decline him?

If you found something negative about a prospective client, even if countered by one of his references, and that negative made you uncomfortable still would you take your chances and his money anyway?


I understand you "know" the original poster, and I understand you like him...but does that translate into a lady that declines him being wrong?

Maybe you know things she doesn't or didn't...but that doesn't make her wrong for doing what she felt was the best choice for her.

Wow all great questions and I can tell you put alot of effort and thought into this post.....these are questions that would be helpful and wonderful to have in a group discussion among providers , I think we could get alot of great fedback , everyone conducts  there business in the own comfort zone. but we can all learn new ways to better our business, I am serious about hosting a classy catered event for our ladies and would be honored assuming you are a woman to attend and give your well thought out views on our industry.......would you attend?

-- Modified on 8/23/2007 5:35:29 PM

Oh, the wonderful experience HE missed out on.

On a personal level, I would much rather see you than any of the so called "first class section" ladies that he thinks rank above you.

Just my opinion...
B

for hobbyists, (1) provide more than one reference when visiting a new provider
(2) show a little more patience and respect to the provider's needs for both security and trust

for providers, (1) check more than one reference (2) if you decide to reject a hobbyist, maybe make it a "Not Now" as opposed to a "Not Never"

He didn't mention any names, except a few references. However, I'm sure the other ladies on this board are wonderful ladies and give great service to our community.

By the way, I've flown first class and the only difference is you get free Champagne and are closer to the bathroom -- not worth it, unless you can sit next to Hugh Jackman.

Hugs,
Ciara





-- Modified on 8/23/2007 7:03:34 PM

that would scare the f**k out of me regardless of the source and nothing you or anyone else said would change that.


"I will go further to say that it has been verified that you've provided 'bogus references' in the past and is also alleged that there was an issue involving force used on another provider for 'bareback services'.  


seeing him "force" an explanation out of her doesnt make the allegation seem too far fetched. ..
he certainly doesnt seem to like the word "no" very much.

its rare that someone is falsely accused of something that severe.

-- Modified on 8/23/2007 7:06:12 PM

The nerve of some people. Did you mention that you are a reviewer on TER? I have done a cross reference through TER if someone has a history with the board. Which can be done through email. Interesting that she didn't think of other options.

My thought is move on.....there are others who will only leave you smiling and not leave you with such a  HARD time.

aria had absolutely nothing to gain by outing herself. but she did it anyway.

how refreshing to see someone not afraid to speak their mind, take responsibility for their actions, and stand by their policies with unwavering conviction regardless of how it affects their bottom line.

they were screaming for her head and she stepped right up.. what an amazing display of courage rarely seen on this board. ..

she had no way of knowing that by doing so, she would gain the admiration from those of us who recognize integrity, courage and sincerity when we see it.  

i am not confused about the details and dont need a years worth of silly he said/she said drama to figure out the blatantly obvious.

she said no
he screamed for an explanation.
she stepped right up, gave it to him and stood behind her decision.
instead of just ignoring him like she couldve.

that holds a hell of a lot more weight to me than being a top provider would in considering her credibility.

i'm actually quite clear on the situation thanks.

Next time I'll just use little faces instead of words, just for you!

"Frownie" face mean anger.

Anger bad.

Yes, she didn't explain in detail. Are you just now getting that?

Wow, welcome to the thread.

And when she did give me details, she informed me that I'd been accused of threatening a provider to make her have sex without a condom.

How would you react?

And spare me the "I'd take the high road crap." You'd be just as bewildered and shocked as I was.

That is, if Aria had told you via small words and little smiley faces so you'd understand.

nobody likes to be falsely accused and i think most of us would be upset in the same situation.

i dont think aria shouldve been obligated to validate the allegations unless she wanted to.  in some cases, the allegations alone are used as a basis for judgement and im not saying that is fair but sometimes that is reality.

you have every right to be upset if in fact the allegations are false but be upset at the unfortunate situation instead of bashing someone for choosing to base a decision upon it.

i think every provider on this board knows what its like to have false information PUBLISHED about them in a review.  

we're told to suck it up, and that it happens to all of us. any of you guys can publish whatever you want about us for whatever reason you want regardless of the truth and its all he said/she said so its impossible for us to prove.  when we express bewilderment and shock we're told to grow a thicker skin or get out of the business.

so i think every provider in here understands how you feel right now and im actually sorry it happened to you but with all due respect, suck it up and be glad it doesnt effect your income.

I have never claimed to be anything other than an idiot...ask anyone.

I won't mention any high roads, interesting though your attack was towards the lady that declined you and not the one that told the supposed "untruths" about you....seems a touch misdirected to get mad at the lady that heard the "lie" instead of the one that told it.  

I never claimed that I contacted Mya for a reference.  Didn't need to and didn't want to.  I had already made my decision and "even the most glowing reference from Mya wasn't going to be enough to relieve my hesitation."  I did, however, contact her in an effort to remedy the situation since she is the only provider that I knew could vouch for you.

And since we're accusing people of lying... a private email from you contained the following:

"You're the first provider to ever (ever!) tell me I'm on some provider "black list" let alone turn me down for an appointment. I'm mortified."

Yet, I have a PM in my TER inbox CC'd to another provider that indicates you have, indeed, been turned down before.  In addition, this thread verifies that I am not the first ever (ever!) to turn you down for an appointment.

Keep throwin' stones, my friend.  I'll lose no sleep over you.

No lady has to book a given gentleman for any reason she deems sufficient, or for no reason, and SHE HAS NO OBLIGATION TO EXPLAIN HERSELF TO ANYONE!!!

this is an awsum cat fight, we could he everybody screaming all the way to florida, i wonder how many days this wild thread will go on...i'll have to check back on this soap opera....

*LOL* dickus is my hero

You said what nearly every provider reading this thread has though and you cut to the chase: She owes NO ONE any explanation!!!!

hmmm, just checked into a "civilized" hotel with Internet and people who speak English
and what on earth is happening back stateside *LOL*
This guy  has obviously been given an unrealistic impression of himself by someone in the business if he feels all he has to do is send the required info and he will be seen *LOL*

Perhaps it was the last line of one of his posted reviews that would have a few providers say... thanks but no thanks:..... "Unfortunately, the time went spent chatting really ate into our time (is that normal?) and I had to race out of there...." perhaps it was the number of reviews he had posted for providers under the age of 25, actually it could have been one of a thousand reasons. ....-AND why would she owe him any explanation????

-When a provider feels "obligated" to see anyone there is something wrong *LOL*
I can assure you that no lady in this business is obligated in any way to see anyone EVER.

I couldn't even make it through the thread without stopping to laugh at least every other line. Gentlemen, where did you get off track.... ladies will see who they want and when they want. If you find a provider who is willing to see anyone anytime then you probably might want to use caution. If her situation places her in a position of destitution to the point of meeting with anyone who contacts her that SHOULD be a red flag!!!!

Regardless of what a providers personal preference or personal peeve might be, I am sure if a gentleman is truly seeking a companion he will find one with some effort.(*The Internet has made it too easy and given the general public enough accessibility to providers that finding what you are seeking should not be a problem*) If your first choice doesn't work out then move along to your second.  

When in doubt rent a copy of Pretty Woman: Ladies are in this business mainly because: they can say who .... they can say when and they can say how much. Men created the business world as America knows it, the women just learned how to play by their rules.    kisses ~T

this man cry was heard nationwide.  

it's interesting the coorelation of ego to pitch.

Arai is a lady with logic and she is full of choices!!!!

...-and let him tell as many that will listen to his cry as he can..... I'm sure for the few that may actually side with such opinions are grossly outnumbered by experienced gentlemen who will value the fact that you chose for yourself who you wish to meet with.

As noted by another comment... let him move on to the hundreds of others who are wanting to happily take his cash. On the same note, there are just as many gentlemen who are knocking at your door. He has obviously shown his true nature based on his "Expectation" to be entertained. *LOL*

Enjoy your empowerment and chose for yourself who you wish to spend time with!  kisses ~T  

we've got high class pu**y and high priced pu**y ...

  and those of us who spend more time sharpening our minds instead of our claws know the difference between the two.  

but most importantly,  i have really HUGE REAL BOOBIES and i love both of them.

All the action is here, no need to watch soaps or reality shows with this stuff.

I'd like to suggest a throwdown in a mud or oil pit, first class vs coach, losers have to service Updog...or should that be winners?

...not to mention your class!

You just ingest all this crazy bullshit and spit it back out so neatly into terms I can understand. That's the definition of genius, right? One who can make complicated things seem simple?

Big Southern-Fried kisses,

A fan/admirer

-- Modified on 8/24/2007 5:10:27 PM

Let’s start promoting Phoenix as a top notch place to visit and charge an entrance fee.
See what you did UPDOG got us on the map and all the ladies here well be very grateful to you for all the business you’re bringing into town. You may never get turned down again. Lucky you.

I doubt I would qualify to attend in any other way.
You would do far better without me there, and anyway...I am a kind of low class and don't attend parties unless there are Patron shots and a pool table there.

Hmm.. I decided to pay a visit to Aria earlier today to see if I could console her a bit over this situation..

We proceeded to 'console' each other silly for the next few hours..  whew !  Thanks folks !..
bf

-- Modified on 8/24/2007 8:21:55 PM

Ok, I've read the entire thread. It took me about an hour to do it.

I noticed some very disturbing trends over the course of the entire thread. A provider should be 'outed' because she decided not to see someone? She is a 'bitch' for doing so? I learn something new every day. Apparently, some believe we providers are akin to concubines, with no prerogative to decide who we share our charms with. Thanks for the heads up on that one.

I also learned that the discussion boards are for hobbyists alone. I was not aware of that. Apparently the posts by providers are merely window dressing? Goodness, I will have to tattoo something on my forehead so that when I look in the mirror, I am reminded to remain in my rightful place as an ornament on the discussion boards. (Somehow, being a cheeky tart, I don't see that happening, but I shall endeavor to remain seen but not heard).

What I find most disturbing though, is the misdirected anger. It seems Aria obtained information from a source OTHER than the reference given to her that raised red flags on her part. Based on those red flags, she declined. But rather than be upset at the party or parties who provided the negative information, the anger was instead directed at the lady who was provided the information.

UPDOG: You accuse her of lying, but I see no lie here. According to the words you posted yourself, the lady said "after thoroughly checking referrences". It would appear she did exactly that. Just not the one referrence that you provided.

Furthermore, your anger - YES you WERE angry, from the very first post, all denials to the contrary being little more than wishful thinking on your part - and your inexorable descent into childish attacks over the course of the thread lend FAR more credence to these supposedly false accusations. If you honestly think that ONE glowing referrence can repair the petulance you've displayed, you have another think coming.

Its almost embarrassing to have to explain the following concept to you, but apparently someone has to, since it has escaped you. Having ONE referrence doesn't necessarily mean ANYTHING. If having ONE referrence is all it takes, then all a man has to do is clean up his act one time, see a well reviewed lady and impress the shit out of her, freeing himself to be a complete ass to every other woman he meets. But hey, he's got the one golden referrence, so how dare a provider turn him down because the other women he treated shabbily posted a warning about him. I can't believe I have to explain that to you.

After the way you behaved on this tread, I wouldn't see you if you had 20 good referrences. But I suspect I have little to fear in that department, because I rather expect that I am not your type. But fear not, I will not demand that you e-mail ME, and explain to ME in precise detail why you chose to pass my profile by.

ARIA: I commend you for your courage to defend yourself on this thread, and respect the dignity you maintained while presenting your side.

MYA: Your comment about "first class" and "coach" was completley uncalled for, and tacky to boot. Aria's website may not have the panache of yours, and she may not have the quantity of reviews that you have, but her reviews are glowing nonetheless, and the intelligence with which she has handled herself speak clearly of a lady of class and intelligence. You stated many times throughout this thread that a lady has the right to make her own decisions, yet you attack Aria for making her choice.

And CIARA: Any fool that would tell you that you do not "rank" up there with the best of them is clearly deaf, dumb, and blind! Were I a man, I would crawl across Hades to lay a rose at your feet! Who am I kidding? I would do so anyways!

Take my input for what its worth - this, plus a buck and a quarter will get you a cup of joe at Denny's.

- The cheeky tart has spoken.

i just had to say that ..


i cant believe you actually had the audacity to tell me to stop bickering as if you thought i should listen to you ..

and i let that slide by pretty smoothly which was sort of difficult for a low class girl.

but then you turned around and went right back to your own bickering ..

i tried so hard to ignore it but i could not leave that be, its too hysterical..

all this time i thought you were going to show me how a classy woman behaves and i was assuming you meant high class.

my mistake

will make sure the patron is there but can't guarantee the pool table but I will make sure there are lots of hot ladies for ya.....

i know, i've seen on your site, your big boobies are the tits ana!

I agree with you 100%, I wouldn't see him either.

It's amazing how some guys and I will not call them gents at all think were going to fall for "I'm going to be a regular" like they think were desperate.

I know just how you feel, Ciara...I'm glad you took the high road and showed class as he showed none.

Terri

Re: *LOL* dickus is my hero

thanks dickus and Tori!Great Posts

welcome to the Phoenix board!
Terri

-- Modified on 8/26/2007 6:14:35 PM

I don't think "updog" is very nice either...

LOVE YOU ALL

Sheika Fatima
[email protected]

-- Modified on 8/27/2007 4:07:03 PM