Just be smart and careful moving forward and know exactly what you are going to do if you should receive that phone call or a visit. Be prepared to handle the sitaution and consider all of your options and their outcomes. Mainly, don't sweat over it until it pops up. Just know what you will do when it happens (if it happens).
With everything that went on last week what are you doing if you used one of the busted agencies?
1. Contact a lawyer.
2. Nothing - You have no worries.
3. Worry and wait. - Hope the list doesn't go public.
4. Give up the hobby
My answer is a combo of 3 and 4. I'd contact a lawyer if I knew that it would help / and knew one to call.
If the list does go public what kind of info will be on it? Will they just publish a list of names?
I heard they were going to post your penis size along with the list of names. So I am not worried !
I'd hate to be on the short list
That was hilarious... I can't stop laughing! I think I LOVE YOU!!!! Kisses, Sonia
"He is also a Hobbyist." "He has had a couple high profile cases so his info MUST stay within this room."
Way to go. You just outed the guy on a public board. Should have offered info via PM.
Ever think it might be the lawyer himself? Just a sly form of advertising?
You know how the rest of it goes.
I know you're only trying to help, but posting a name and phone number on a public board that is publicly accessible is not a smart move, Einstein.
Even if it's just a repeat of someone else's post, it isn't wise.
Just my two cents.
-- Modified on 8/13/2008 10:54:29 AM
Well, as you said it was done with good intent and it came from another public board and the guy's not overly concerned about the fantasy of being a hobbyist. You're cute Aria, but certainly not one I'd ever consider seeing since you're rather cruel, Hillary.
Good to see the Phoenix forum back to normal.
but I can admittedly come off a bit 'brusque', I know.
I'll take my cute self back to being seen and not heard. (wink)
I think I am just going to wait around and see what happens. However, that being said I do notlive in the area so....
Not sure that helps but I can tell you that I have slowed down my experiences and only see those ladies that I have either met in a chat, I know that is not a "for sure" and those I have seen in the past.
Hope that gives you some helpful insight.
Don't cross that bridge until you come to it! In other words; do nothing and Hobby to help ease your stress 
I'm sure you have nothing to worry about since you are not a celebrity.
Just be smart and careful moving forward and know exactly what you are going to do if you should receive that phone call or a visit. Be prepared to handle the sitaution and consider all of your options and their outcomes. Mainly, don't sweat over it until it pops up. Just know what you will do when it happens (if it happens).
it comes, and you won't be able to help #3, it is what it is. #2 if for ostriches, and #4 is a decision that I'm not willing to make yet.
I hope the list isn't published, but I'm pretty confident it will be. Particularly if any charges are made from it against high profile types. However, if there are cops, judges, or politicians on it, we may never see it.
Check out the court docket and the attorney representing #34 Sara Scott.... our own Terry Goddard, Attorney General of AZ. Why would he or his office represent her? Is he a client???
Interesting.
Is any one willing to sit in the back of the courtroom at one of these prelims to see exactly what theDA and Judge are up to? Might make for an interesting day.
Misty, the Sheika thinks you have done some crucial research and asked a very shrewd and insightful question. We should all look into it and post any information and/or speculations here.
And, Phighton, I hope someone will implement your suggestion and keep us all informed about the drama about to unfold.
Warmest regards to all,
Sheika Fatima
[email protected]
Easy guys! Please use your head. These agencies were legal and licensed. They advertised freely on the internet. So, what if you used the agency in the past. Is that proof that you were involved in anything illegal? Please, stop being hysterical. Go on with your life. Ever consider that just maybe there are guys who are willing to pay hundreds of dollars just to have a pretty face to escort them to a function, dinner or what ever. Is that illegal?
Your first choice should be #1. A lawyer can let you know the potential problems, and give you advice on how to handle LE inquiries about your involvement.
As for #4, It may be a good idea to lay low. Just in case your already on some list of people to watch for.
After those two you have no choice but #3, until you know the outcome (one way or the other).
#2 is not an option.
There is no need to incur the cost of retaining counsel at this point.
It is extremely unlikely that there will be any prosecution merely of persons who used the escort agency services, unless the user is a pubic official or other high profile target. Remember the DC Madam case where she was the primary target and, as far as i know, only a few clients were called as witnesses (although they may have been threatened with charges unless they agreed to testify).
If you are on the list, it will be embarrassing and may impact relations with friends, family and employers but you'd have to be unlucky to be prosecuted. LE has better uses for its scant resources. And there's nothing counsel can do to protect you from this kind of embarrassment.
#3 reigns supreme, but I have a couple of basic questions...
1. How do we know if there is a list, what the list really says, etc.? Has anyone heard anything more specific about the list? The media called it a "ledger". Perhaps there was personal information there, but whose? Was the information complete?
It certainly isn't above our county officials to use fear of "the list" to discourage behaviors or to help the high level folks brace themselves for possible prosecution
2. If there is a list, the publication of that list is problematic. Inaccurate information or inconsistent prosecution of people on that list (other than the public figures) presents a problem for the County. Unless they are willing to pursue the 1000s, the list is likely going to shorten to those who actually are in the prosecutorial short hairs.
Our county already publishes the criminally accused photos and names on the internet, but even Joe hasn't started making lists of those perps that he MIGHT arrest or that the County Prosecutor MIGHT indict.
The likelihood of #3 is the likelihood that those on the list might receive a telephone call, etc.
Just some thoughts...
Again, #3 is the right reaction, but
just a little bit of discussion on this so called "list". Remember, it is not a crime to pay $ for the companionship of a girl at an agency, that is why they are legally licensed. Let's say the ledger stated a name, phone # and $ amount paid by the client and of course provider name. This $ amount paid could be just for dinner, drinks and companionship period, no more no less!
Also, let's say a conservative number of 5 new clients per day (3 agencies) were using the service over a six year period. If you do the math, that means there could potentially be over 10,000 clients in that 367 page ledger, and it probably is even more then that number!
So how can they publish a list that large and also, in all probability not enough information to show a crime was even committed. If they did publish it, I would think legal action could be taken against them for insuffient evidence and slander of someone's good name. Just a thought.....
There was surveillance. Very High-Tech surveillance. If they can put a face with a name (recorded) and prove what acts were done for payment.... The "I only paid for her companionship" plea is gone.
There were phone taps, video surveillance, and under covers that infiltrated into the system.
The "I only paid for her companionship" may work if you say had her visit you at an undisclosed hotel or house. Were they following these ladies with a parabaliec (I don't think I spelled that right) mircophone? I think if you were not a "regular, a person of notability or public figure" you should still keep an ear out for the phone. I think if anything this situation had made us all a little more "safe" in how we handle ourself now and in the future.
-- Modified on 8/15/2008 9:47:11 AM
that is a point I overlooked, Miss Tina, and is very true.....I think they had these agencies under surveillance for about a year, if I rememember the article. So, going back to this "list" they could possible publish, I don't think you are going to see any names on the list that they wouldn't have substantial proof that would incriminate them that Miss Tina brought up in her response, and that would basically mean anyone who visited these agencies in the last year could be on that list. Again, if you do the math, the last year most definitely had the highest rate of new clients using the agencies, so they are probably dealing with over 2,000+ names and how many of those were under survellance that they could possibly identify from the list would determine who would make the list. I really don't think anyone who used the agencies over 1 year ago, before the surveillance, don't have anything to worry about as far as seeing their name on a published list of any sort, either on a website or newspaper.......anybody's thoughts on this.........again, with no proof of surveillance, the client just paid for a pretty face to enjoy cocktail, dinner and good conversation!
Unless you discuss specific acts on the phones that are tapped, or they have audio/video surveillance of the location of an actual date, then all they have is an audio agreement of hiring an escort. That still doesn't prove that anything illegal happened. Obviously there is enough proof that something illegal was going on since they made the busts, but I don't see how that changes anything for those who are not high-profile clients.
I can't imagine that they were following the girls and setting audio and video for the locations of each date. That's a lot of work. I agree that there isn't much risk to the average customer. Maybe you get a phone call and as long as you are prepared for it, then I think you are fine.
Ok...stop and think about the list being published. So what if the list goes public.
1. Where would they post it?
2. If they did post it, what are the odds someone you know will actually read it and pick you out?
3. If you are married, what are the odds that your wife even knows anything about the bust, much less is actually following it?
Think about it people...nobody is paying very close attention to this unless they are involved and that's it!
Now if you are arrested...that is a whole different story...then people you know will have no choice but to pay attention (and maybe not even then, depending on how and where things go down and the outcome).
-Scotty G
Since I am not on any Phoenix list I am probably safe in posting this.
Some concerns
If one of the girls is really represented by the State AG that probably means a cooperating witness.
If the list is published in a form that google can read then your name may be attached to the list of clients and searchable. Not good.
Some relief
Among the 2,000 clients are probably 200 for whom being on a published list would be a serious problem....... politicians, business leaders, religious leaders, wife ready for messy divorce etc. There's going to be strong pressure not to publish the list and based on most prior cases the lists do not get released.
even more relief:
any proof of "what goes on behind close doors" is too weak to uphold in court; if any proof existed, one of the two people in a date would have to be LE or wired; my bet is it wasn't the girls who were wired...
furthermore, i've had several calls, including cc paid calls, in which i had nothing more than good conversation- how is LE to distinguish the necessary details each call to prove their charges when what I stated above is a fact?
that list is embarrassing to LE, too...someone will apply pressure somewhere to repress that info- it's not just a handful of big names, it's enough names to make up a small town...the checks and balance of power, in this event, aren't likely to allow such a list to go public. ultimately, the real crime they were concerned about is the money laundering, and they used the other charges as a means to put a stop on the flow of "dirty money"
FYI
Terry Goddard is indeed our Attorney General in Arizona.
Terry Goddard Jr. is his son and is a criminal defense attorney in the Phoenix area.
It does look goofy on the docket, but the explanation is simple enough.
With Dad in such a public position, Dad has got to hate that this that his son is representing one of the gals. Oh wait....maybe DAD asked him to do it to make sure all of his political buddies aren't exposed -- or perhaps even him.
You think???
Just my luck to move here just as this crap is going down.
I hope it blows over soon.
