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Re: If this story is true, the cops used the phone's GPS data to track it
maxwell44 23 Reviews 578 reads
posted

True, but you can only triangulate a phone's approximate position if it can ping 3 different cell phone towers.  This wouldn't be accurate at all if the phone is located indoors, certainly not accurate enough to direct the police to a specific section of an apartment complex.  Nobody is going to triangulate any phone's position if it is transmitting its GPS coordinates anyway whenever it establishes a call, which appears to be the scenario you were describing.  

You can easily test the accuracy of these two different methods for yourself by using google maps on a smart phone.  Turn off GPS on the phone, and then have google maps tell you your location.  It will probably give you an area that is a huge circle that is several square miles in size.  Then turn on GPS on the phone and have google maps tell you your location again, it will most likely tell you your exact address now.  That is how the cops do it, they are grabbing those GPS coordinates that your phone reported to the cell phone company, and they don't even need a warrant to get that info from the cell phone company.  It is unlikely that any specific phone can be found within any metro area when it has its GPS feature turned off.
Posted By: onyx_percula
Unfortunately this is not 100% correct. A powered on phone "pings" towers constantly, these signals can be used to triangulate approximate location.  
   
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking  
   
 

onyx_percula1242 reads

Hi All

So I seen one of my fav girls this week. She is an indy girl, handles her own screening, booking etc.

Being a tech geek, a story she told me sent chills thru me.

She had a new client call her, he cleared her process for screening albeit not as good as it should be. They continued a on going txt session with this guy as the appointed time came closer. A few minutes before the time, two LE cars parked near her location.

Being a rightfully paranoid girl she pulled the battery out of her phone. About 30 mins after the appointment time the LE cars left. She turned her phone back on, and literally 1 min after it was on she got a call from the appointment. No txt's VMs, nothing while the phone was off. Normally a client would be blowing up a provider phone that disappeared at the last minute. She was still concerned and stalled him on the phone using the two call system. Sure enough a LE car parked outside within 5 mins of her turning the phone back on. Battery out, no more calls from the new guy since.

So I know that the local LE have cell trackers. If they have a number they can track the location of a phone. It is not super accurate, but if a provider was in a apartment complex they could definitely locate the phone to a section of the complex.

Might be a thing in the future to see new numbers on a very frequent basis from our girls. As they start using prepaid phones for a short period before getting a new one. Email is so much easier, and much harder to "tap" unless you are the NSA ;) Remember girls delete those emails completely when you are done with them.

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gymratguy743 reads

Boy, seems like a lot of trouble LE is going through to nab two consenting adults...

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onyx_percula773 reads

I know for sure the PHX PD has the trackers, I can't imagine that the rest of the metro are LE doesn't as well. It's been the hottest new tech in the LE market for 2-3 years now.

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maxwell44716 reads

Cops/the NSA/the government can track cell phones to an exact location using the phone's GPS coordinates, which is included in the meta-data that the phone transmits to the phone company whenever the phone makes or receives a call or text.  So not only does the phone register with a specific cell tower when it is on, and then it gets pinged by the tower every once in a while to make sure it is still alive, but it also transmits its exact GPS coordinates to the cell tower when it makes or receives a call or text.  This info is useful to the cell phone company, because they aggregate this info and then they know where they need to install additional cell phone towers.  However the flip side is that this GPS info can also be obtained by the police to find a phone's specific location.

So the relatively simple countermeasure against having the police find your exact location is to just use a cell phone that does not have a GPS feature.  Without your phone transmitting that info to anybody, the only thing the cell phone company would ever know is what tower your phone is talking to, and if the cops want that info, all they are going to know is that the phone is located somewhere in a circle that has an area of many square miles.  

By the way, cops do not need a warrant or even probable cause to track any phone.  As usual, a court ruled that the 4th Amendment is irrelevant.  Read about that below.

Related Link: Warantless Cell Phone Tracking

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onyx_percula579 reads

Unfortunately this is not 100% correct. A powered on phone "pings" towers constantly, these signals can be used to triangulate approximate location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_trackin

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maxwell44579 reads

True, but you can only triangulate a phone's approximate position if it can ping 3 different cell phone towers.  This wouldn't be accurate at all if the phone is located indoors, certainly not accurate enough to direct the police to a specific section of an apartment complex.  Nobody is going to triangulate any phone's position if it is transmitting its GPS coordinates anyway whenever it establishes a call, which appears to be the scenario you were describing.  

You can easily test the accuracy of these two different methods for yourself by using google maps on a smart phone.  Turn off GPS on the phone, and then have google maps tell you your location.  It will probably give you an area that is a huge circle that is several square miles in size.  Then turn on GPS on the phone and have google maps tell you your location again, it will most likely tell you your exact address now.  That is how the cops do it, they are grabbing those GPS coordinates that your phone reported to the cell phone company, and they don't even need a warrant to get that info from the cell phone company.  It is unlikely that any specific phone can be found within any metro area when it has its GPS feature turned off.

Posted By: onyx_percula
Unfortunately this is not 100% correct. A powered on phone "pings" towers constantly, these signals can be used to triangulate approximate location.  
   
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking  
   
 

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vi4duct468 reads

Posted By: maxwell44
True, but you can only triangulate a phone's approximate position if it can ping 3 different cell phone towers.  This wouldn't be accurate at all if the phone is located indoors, certainly not accurate enough to direct the police to a specific section of an apartment complex.  Nobody is going to triangulate any phone's position if it is transmitting its GPS coordinates anyway whenever it establishes a call, which appears to be the scenario you were describing.    
   
 You can easily test the accuracy of these two different methods for yourself by using google maps on a smart phone.  Turn off GPS on the phone, and then have google maps tell you your location.  It will probably give you an area that is a huge circle that is several square miles in size.  Then turn on GPS on the phone and have google maps tell you your location again, it will most likely tell you your exact address now.  That is how the cops do it, they are grabbing those GPS coordinates that your phone reported to the cell phone company, and they don't even need a warrant to get that info from the cell phone company.  It is unlikely that any specific phone can be found within any metro area when it has its GPS feature turned off.  
   
Posted By: onyx_percula
Unfortunately this is not 100% correct. A powered on phone "pings" towers constantly, these signals can be used to triangulate approximate location.  
     
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking  
     
 
Okay, I'm going to be kind of a dick and correct those using the word "triangulation" - it's actually trilateration that's being used since there aren't any angle measurements being used.  On mobile phones signal power measurements can be used on the telecom side for location approximation. Also, measurements from two towers is sufficient to provide a fairly close approximate location if you can assume the device being tracked is in the same plane as the towers - YMMV depending on terrain and architecture.  A measurement from a single tower would provide a range of circumferences around the tower that would be reasonable to assume the device is in, again, YMMV as above. Finally, on the device itself wifi access points are what are used to approximate location when GPS isn't available - smart phones don't use cell tower info to determine location.

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vi4duct608 reads

Paranoia's a good thing right now, but I don't understand why LE would be blowing their cover if a cop had already passed screening and was on the way to an appointment.  Are they honestly unable to scrounge up an unmarked car or two?  Besides, the calls/texts in combination with an ad would probably be enough for an arrest, and how much backup could they actually think they needed?  All they had to do was get the unit number on the 2nd call and just watch the door until backup arrived for an arrest.  Am I missing something? I know it's generally a bottom of the barrel assignment, but are vice cops really that bad at what they do?

A few weeks ago I arrived at an address to meet someone new and she stopped answering my calls after requesting I give her 5 more minutes.  Fifteen minutes after her last call I'm getting ready to leave when PHX PD rolls through the condo parking lot.  That made up my mind for me - with hindsight I'm pretty sure it was a coincidence and the lady in question was just a flake, but at the time I got super paranoid and was thinking of burning my number.

I'm not saying she shouldn't have done what she did - an abundance of caution's reasonable - but rather that it may have been a coincidence and she probably shouldn't lose sleep over it.

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onyx_percula546 reads

I have seen the tracking in use a different time... I was playing poker in one of those strip mall private clubs type thing. It was common for the LE to take breaks in the parking lot, one of the things that made me comfortable playing there.

One night one pulled in and came into the place, asked for so and so, no one knew who he was asking for. 15-20 mins later a regular shows up, buys in and calls his GF. Overhearing some of the convo he was obviously worried about something and someone knowing where he was. Someone mentioned the cops showing up... this guy was not the same name as the cops was looking... well actually he was. Two cops cars re-entered the parking lot just a min or two after he had called the GF. They asked him to come outside and checked his ID and let him go after talking for several mins.

The guy came back in, gave out a whew... "That was close, good thing I had another ID on me!". It was the guy they were looking for and were tracking his phone to locate him. His GF showed up later traded him phones and left. He got a call from her a couple hours later telling him the cops were waiting outside her place for him...

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rifle7210560 reads

$20 at the grocery store. Doubt they have GPS. Capice?

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sedonaw567 reads

The next intrusion will be shooting clients with tranquilizer darts and fixing Crittercams on them. They can track their location and watch everything on video!  

Posted By: onyx_percula
Hi All  
   
 So I seen one of my fav girls this week. She is an indy girl, handles her own screening, booking etc.  
   
 Being a tech geek, a story she told me sent chills thru me.  
   
 She had a new client call her, he cleared her process for screening albeit not as good as it should be. They continued a on going txt session with this guy as the appointed time came closer. A few minutes before the time, two LE cars parked near her location.  
   
 Being a rightfully paranoid girl she pull ced the battery out of her phone. About 30 mins after the appointment time the LE cars left. She turned her phone back on, and literally 1 min after it was on she got a call from the appointment. No txt's VMs, nothing while the phone was off. Normally a client would be blowing up a provider phone that disappeared at the last minute. She was still concerned and stalled him on the phone using the two call system. Sure enough a LE car parked outside within 5 mins of her turning the phone back on. Battery out, no more calls from the new guy since.  
   
 So I know that the local LE have cell trackers. If they have a number they can track the location of a phone. It is not super accurate, but if a provider was in a apartment complex they could definitely locate the phone to a section of the complex.  
   
 Might be a thing in the future to see new numbers on a very frequent basis from our girls. As they start using prepaid phones for a short period before getting a new one. Email is so much easier, and much harder to "tap" unless you are the NSA ;) Remember girls delete those emails completely when you are done with them.

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voyager-43481 reads

I assume you are being a bit facetious here, but not off the track. If LE now has cellphone trackers, they are not far from reading your email, reading your PMs, hacking your website, tracking your car, etc.  It is recognized that LE is militarizing, with automatic weapons and military tactics. Now they are adapting militarized intelligence gathering. ( I knew we were headed toward Big Brother when LE started wearing balaclavas.  Why do police officers need to hide their faces? ) When will we see drones overhead watching us?
It will get worse until citizens stand up and say no. The recent NSA revelations are just the tip of the iceberg.  
I saw your other post to Maree about screening and you are absolutely correct. LE feels they can push every limit to fulfill their objectives. Whether it is speeding cameras or arresting people for doing something that should never have been made illegal. Like all reasonable people, I abhor the predation of children in the sex trade, but if adults wish to make an arrangement for their own pleasure it is no one else's business.  
Stay safe.

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sedonaw567 reads

I was being facetious.  I'm no stranger to crazy spy tactics.  I've had a listening device in my bathroom walls that looks exactly like an electric outlet, functions as an outlet, and can hear a pin drop from the other room (why was it in my bathroom where everything really private should stay??). The electronic surveillance guy ran the serial number and tracked the device to a local company in Tempe.  Price of this fun little listening toy:  $2400.  I have been followed. I've had someone visit my campsite with night vision while I was camping with my kids.  When I became pregnant with my youngest, I didn't feel safe in my own house and slept in my truck in hotel parking lots in Scottsdale!  I was, coincidently, dating a man in law enforcement.  When I asked him if he did it, of course he denied it.   King Nothing was dethroned without pension a few years after my violation. One of the charges against him was abuse of power. He went on to write a book honking his horn about what a super hero he was and how his service to this country should take precedence over all the abuses of public trust.  He was abusive to women and abusive to his duty/country, a drunk and a drug addict. He would say things to me that could only be known by someone who put a listening device in my bathroom. How often does someone turn a blind eye to rogues abusing their authority or how long does it take before someone higher up does something about it?

This is something right out of a book but it happened me.  Our community shouldn't be so shocked by all these intrusions. We don't have a human rights organization there to bat for our privacy and rights.  We, (the ones who are not traffickers/pimps, or pedophiles who capitalize on the sex acts of another human being without their healthy and rational consent )remain dehumanized and criminalized with the lot of them. There's not much to distinguish the offenses.  Much like being called a sex offender because you peed on a bush and being grouped in with all the other much more serious sex crimes.

Law enforcement should focus on sex trafficking (pimps) and pedophiles!  Look into the faces of these parents who are missing their child and tell them that you are here in THIS community serving their justice.  They couldn't do that.  It's a lie. If I were one of these parents, I would be infuriated by how much energy, time, and money that has been put here. How many more cases like Amanda Berry's are there out there and unsolved by sh** heads who have misplaced resources and have hyper-inflated God complexes??

-- Modified on 9/9/2013 6:45:27 AM

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