I know this will probably bite me in the ass, but I need to vent a little.

Lately I've seen some hobbyists trying to get free sessions. Now I'm all up for anything free, but these ladies do this for a living. It's they're JOB! Unless you want to pay they're bills, you shouldn't even ask. You don't walk into McDonald's and ask for a free Happy Meal, do you? If you want freebies, find a girlfriend, lol.

I'm just saying, if a lady offers a freebie, at least have the balls to tip her. And, keep in mind, nothing in life is free.

Now, on the other hand, discounts. If a lady offers a discount (without you asking for one) don't expect it all the time. She's doing you a favor, but, once again, has to pay her bills.

My $.02...

I recived a PM from a member of TER. Sorry I no longer have VIP access. Please reply or send me an email.

p.s. I know this is a very sensitive subject, and maybe I should have kept my mouth shut. I apologize if this rubbed anyone the wrong way.

Common courtesy.

If these idiots (and I have heard NUMEROUS ladies in the Phoenix area engaging in this practice) are going around giving freebies, then let them - and no, they don't deserve a tip.  They deserve to gain some self-respect.

And, "freebies" come in all different forms.  Time spent with a provider is time that should be paid for.  Otherwise it is flat-out taking advantage by a guy with ulterior motives that will eventually lead to huge problems.  

Going out to lunch with a client (HOBBYIST/BOARD OWNER) off the clock? Spending much more time than the (probably discounted) hour you are paid for? Endless emails back and forth?  

Ladies STOP this practice and then sit back and watch while your call volume (and bank account) increases ten-fold.  Don't believe me?  Don't trust what I am saying is true?  Try it for yourself and before long you will see first-hand what I am talking about.  

I am sorry, but I don't see how any lady engages in this practice unless she is *brand new* (and will soon learn for herself how abnormal it is very soon) or if she is completely desperate for business.  

I get paid no less than $1K for a lunch or dinner date.  I wouldn't *dream* of going ANYWHERE with a client without being compensated (hahahaaaaaaaaaahahaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa -choke- *CHOKE*).  The idea is so preposperous it is making me laugh so hard I am choking.  I am sorry.  And - I even have trouble finding time seeing clients who ARE willing to pay my rate.  Let alone go see some clueless elederly hobbyist/board owner who is on an ego trip for FREE (even just for lunch or to get some worthless "advise")?  You have GOT to be kidding me ladies.

Ladies, you need to stop spending all of this time on the Phoenix area hobbyists, board owners, men with who think they have any kind of "perceived power" (and, all these types do...) before you get bitten in the ass.  And it won't be pretty, trust me.      

And, you guys reading this recognize yourselves.  You know who you are.  Shame on you and get a fucking life!  We don't need your help.  With ANYTHING.  You are UNPROFESSIONAL and UNDESIRABLE HOBBYISTS.

Hey Pathetic,
Why the aliase?

This topic is a spill over from another local board. Honestly I saw this coming long ago.

Lets just call this other board a budget minded board. It has a large participation of local providers, some of which are without a doubt tops in the country in both intelligence and beauty, and I mean SEVERAL. Some are prolific participants in discussions, some choose to not be as outspoken. Some advertise often, others hardly at all.

Here is what I have noticed over the past 6-9 months. An influx of new ladies. The competition has for customers has without a doubt risen. The quality of SOME of the new members and Ladies has certainly dropped. While there have certainly been a few gems that have joined, I can the same for the opposite.

Girls, when your friend is advertising specials at 160 an hour, something is wrong. I sit here with my schedule full, at full rate. There are girls I saw last week running 160 and 175 an hour specials. This is about the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

But what is worse is that it destroys your economic base. So what do you do, you toss in a free lunch, you toss in a birthday visit, you toss in one free for every third. You become best buddies of the most visible guys on the boards. This causes that 160 dollar an hour skank to cut her rate to 140 dollars. What do you do, give more away.

Your making yourself extinct. At the rate some of you are going you will be paying the guys to see you. In addition your creating the persona of someone who will take less. If you value your future then change your ways. I am the first person to believe in value and its pricing, i keep a very low profile and trust me I am in contact with numerous board members. You would not believe what they have to say about some of you "discount" ladies.

I am probably going to get hammered, but I thought I would drop my 2 cents....I am a believer in that you get what you pay for. I have a few providers who I consistently go back to because of a connection I have devolped with them. But I also try out some other providers who's pics catch my eye and the price is right. No offense ladies, but I have a limit of $200 for me. The ladies that ask for more and get it, good for them. I am sure they provide a wonderful experience. It is just not for me. But to sit there and beat up the other providers because of the donation they are asking is not cool. They charge what the market can handle. If they are new, they start low, and then raise the donation based on the feedback from the guys. Freebies, or asking for them is not good. But stop beating up the ladies that are charging less! Sorry for the ramble.

This is not about YOU. I repeat, the point I was making was NOT about YOU.

My post was directed at providers who provide services. Are you upset that it tells them they don't have to give it away? Or that they are only fractionally selling their time higher than a streetwalker.

They don't charge what the market can handle, they charge what the market will pay THEM. They cant get paid any better for multiple reasons but one of the reasons is people like you who tell them this is the market. Search the TER data base using just the 602 area code minimum 2 reviews. I come up with 804 providers that charge between 100 and 1000. Then change it to 150 to 250 you get 266 providers. That means 66% of all the other providers are handling the market just fine. If you drop the rate to 160 its its 84% are doing better.

I am a believer in you get what you pay for too, just like you said. And man I am glad you threw that connection thing in there because thats the only reason your not a jerk.

When a lady lowers herself to street walker pricing, she gets that reputation. You guys pass her name around, providers shun her because she looks so desperate. She ruins her credibility. People are nice to her because its human nature to care for the sick, the infirm and the handicap.

This was never about what you can or cant, will or wont pay. Its about providers driving their own market place into the ground economically. I don't mean this as an insult but think of it like this, If a client has a 200 dollar a month budget, then all he needs to do is turn that into a 400 dollar every other month budget. This allows the provider extra time to do the things in life she needs to do and to find new clients.

So don't tell some poor provider who is not too market savvy that your 200 is what the market will handle. Especially when 66% of all the other providers are charging more. All that being said there was a great thread with real common sense and emotion last night on the general board about discounting. And in the end I agree, that there is nothing wrong with discounting as long as that discount is applied in both directions.

I just wanted to say your reply to this topic is very intelligent and well spoken.
Thankyou for having an educated voice.
xoxoxo

Darwin,,,great point on all accounts... but are you saying girls shouldn't offer "specials" either? And by "special," i mean 50 dollars off regular pricing. Also, why does it matter if these ladies are charging street walker prices? You are obviously the exception to the rule,,,correct? Bad Business for them = better biz for you, right?
one more thing,,,,i agree with your  opinion regarding 200 only hobbyists. This is not a cheap hobby, so why do it half ass? like any other hobby: IT IS EXPENSIVE (at times). but well worth it. Hence the meaning of "hobby."

I know that was not directed at me, because I do not lower myself. I have high worth of my self as an individual.
I was simply giving you props I_Love_Darwinism

Because 1.she don't want her business to wither up like an old mans dick in a viagra shortage,and 2.she is afraid all the ladies she pretends to be best friends with while shes talking crap here will see her true colors..lol

I admire you Vampy, for bringing this topic to light.  At times, the discussion of anything monitory can be uncomfortable in our realm of things.

Yes, if a lady offers a freebie, a tip is nice, but NOT expected...   Yet, if given, after a thoughtful gift of a "donated" session can be a wonderful thing...

VS....

let's say a provider with a wish list....   I suppose there is nothing more infuriating than a gentleman who DEDUCTS a GIFT that was non solicited or requested by said provider (even if she mentions a desire for a particular service during session) and yet.... the gift was deducted from the donation....

hmmm....  


my true after thoughts are to myself at this time... I am within my own conundrum as to how to deal with this situation.  Even after all of my time that I have vested into this industry; into myself, into my clients, into exploring the inter relationships between men and women to better ASSIST my own clients with interpersonal communications....

I am well.. just within my own thoughts in regards to the perception of "TIME"  in the hobby.. and yet..  those of you who've known me for my tenure..  well.. YOU KNOW??????

Just, my two cents after reading one of my most favorite men.... Vampy, and his initial post... I have not read y'all's other posts...  shooting from the proverbial hip..

All of y'all, be well...  
Ladies, $tay $afe,
xoxo
Jazz

You have so eloquently, hit the nail on the head that I was speaking about before I read all responses..

After just deleting the last six paragraphs I have just written... I shall sit here and smile, holding my cards close to my chest..

aaaahhhh....  

love that standing bass...

xoxo
Jazz

This you get what you pay for is nonsense.  Often snooty attitudes vs down to earth real women nice.

No not free or under $100/hr but gals get all snippity about rates and then have to travel to find clients to pay the rates.  It is simply a free market and how busy you want to be.

The U.S. and especially Phoenix is very expensive compared to most of the world, no not Asia but most of Europe, Canada etc with far more choices and in my view more "real" women as escorts vs those that think they are entitled and think they are so great.

Worst of all is gals that try and offer more reasonable fees for the normal guy vs just the wealthy get attacked and false rumors and even worse.

We should support all levels of honest escorts - if the $1000 hour gal finds her nitch and is doing as much business as she wants more power to her.  But lets not degrade the many more reasonable $160/$200 hour gals that often in my view are far more worth it.

OK going into my hole and hiding from the bullets that will fly.

Honestly how much of what you just said can you actually believe?

In Canada outcall is legal. This one single fact that you have been touting for god knows how many years makes a huge difference in the "market". Wake up and smell the roses, there is ALWAYS a premium tacked onto a service thats complicated. I dare say its far more complicated here than in Toronto.

If you look at the difference in the dollar, mathematically your economic value is not that much better. Have you looked at the Euro lately? I would expect that in your profession you have. The Euro is running a 20-30 percent margin. Last I looked the Euro was 1.4 to the dollar. The British Pound is even worse. By the time you factor in flying to one of those locations, getting a room that has clean sheets and then having a companion come visit, your spending some real money. Heck even the Canadian dollar is still beating us up.

I have a super busy day today but if I get a chance I will take a look at the top 8 metro markets and see just how Phoenix compares to rates in Boston, NYC, LA, Houston, Miami, Philadelphia  and a few others. I think we are pretty comparable. However I am willing to reserve judgement on that issue until I look.

I am not even going to try to compare our rates with 3rd world economies or economies with unemployment beyond 20%. Countries with child prostitution and indentured slavery cant be used in this comparison. Services in Romania are cheaper, especially when the 2004 average per capita income is less than 6k. Yea, somethings are just not what the seem.

If you don't think you get what you pay for, then your wrong. Its that simple. There is a difference in AAA+ rated paper and C- rated paper. You know this. There is a difference in $ 160 an hour provider than a $ 1000 and hour provider. Maybe that difference means little or nothing to you. Maybe the differences are not differences you care about. However their are differences and some of those differences can be considerable.

People like you continue to try to make providers think that they are doing themselves a favor by devaluing their service. You are taking advantage of a tuff market, and telling them they need to sell cheap. Again this is untrue and a horrible business strategy. Who are you to decide what a more "normal" fee is. Are you on your back? Are you supporting yourself in this business? Until your bent over don't try to tell a provider what a "reasonable" fee is. Your diatribe on what you think is normal and reasonable is verbal vomit. Stand in our shoes before you tell us whats "reasonable and normal" as your post points out.

If you want to see providers that are out there at 160 an hour then fine. And if providers choose to allow the stigma of being a cheap alternative be tagged on them then fine. My point is simply that they are on a slow deathly down hill struggle. At the rate your suggesting how does a companion actually hire somebody like you to set up her IRA. How does she even contribute to her IRA, or afford health insurance. Much less actually afford to own her own home and build a savings for a future. The only way that happens is if you donate your services, which I have heard you have done in the past, credit where credit is due.

Ladies keep this in mind, once your labeled a cheap ass crack whore, its real hard to get rid of that reputation.

....except about tipping.... if she wants to be silly enough to give it for free then tipping shouldn't be a requirement. He knows she does this for a living (some full some part-time) but guess what SHE DOES TOO. She knows she needs to pay her bills too.

HERE IS A HINT ON HOW TO GET A FREE RIDE OUT OF A PROVIDER: Most providers' use a substance to get them through whatever. Find out what her drug of choice is & deliver it to her w/emphasis on how you are willing to commit such a felony in order to please her(it's also essential to research what you would be charged with if you were to get arrested & stress it to her). Without a doubt she will reward you w/her body especially once her mind is negated by the drug(usually after the initial use). The best advice for you, the hobbyist, is to befriend an easygoing dealer who will cut you the deal of a lifetime ... therefore keeping your investment very low!!!

Most providers use a substance to get them through? Who are you seeing?!!?! Not a single lady I have met would ever do that. Am I blind and naive?

It would seem to me that one would want to stay away from these girls... if they are willing to compromise their safety and security by using drugs, they probably do not regard your safety any higher. Wouldn't that put you at risk?

Please stay safe RandomGuy, I wish you all the best.... Regards, Audrina Kay