Guess I'll stick my nose out one more time. I find this whole "issue" over CL a bit disturbing. I'm certainly not advocating in favor of either CL or any provider. I do question why TER would pull Danielle's reviews and Glenn would drop her from Phoenix411 (based on what I know). At least 6 people I know saw Danielle and all of them had a decent to good time (3 of em posted reviews). All but one review was good and the 7,2 review did not get ripped off....just didnt like the ambiance or slam/bang approach.

Personally I think by and large you get what you pay for...and all things considered the overall bang/buck ratio favors the higher end gals. However I also favor competition and I get the distinct feeling the ongoing influx of new blood is ruffling some feathers. The hobbiest community would have been better served IMO with her (danielle's) reviews up so folks can make informed decisions.

Obviously there may be more here then I'm aware of. Based on what I am aware of it sounds like another case of politics as usual here. It wasnt fair when Jack and Scott went thru it and its not now. Let the reviews (good & BAD) stand and folks who bother to look can make quality choices.

99% of the time I gladly pay the extra coin....the other 1% I'd like to know I've got ALL the fact available...

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-- Modified on 10/10/2006 9:19:54 AM

I should probably not post my comment here but I just couldn't let it go because of a couple of reasons. I don't know anything about TER and pulling reviews or anything like that however recently I have had several gentlemen expressing their dissatisfaction with the quality of some of the ladies on 411.

I think competition is great for all of us because it forces the ladies to keep the standards high and the ones that can't keep up will not be around that long, so usually it works out in the end anyway.

I don't think this has too much to do with CL actually (because that is where I started), I just think that some gentlemen and providers too are concerned about that the standards aren't high enough with some ladies.

Didn't we all have to start somewhere and work our way up? Shouldn't it have to be like that with all providers? I am not talking about any specific lady here.

And I do agree with you AZHacker that let the reviews stand and people can make their own decision, I just wish that some ladies would set their standards higher.

S.A

If someone is pulled from TER and 411, let it be written, let it be so. How often does it happen. Not. And each site has no obligation to anyone other than their management to do what they believe is the "right thing".

Who cares if there are politics. There are enough quality girls right now for all (and more keep coming in). We definately do not want to go back to the days of nothing but shilling of ATF's and questionable experiences.

I do believe in free market competition. But when there is the possibility of having a bad or YMMV experience, as was stated in the earlier thread on her, why risk it. And I am not talking about stats. We ALL know stats are not the bell weather of this community. It is back channel.

I do not believe it "ruffles feathers". On the contrary. Indy and agency girls are welcomed in this community. I think it is good to screen out issues before they happen. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...

Peace out,

As for standards, Phoenix has moved so far in the right direction, wow, I don't think that is a question. Great agencies, great indy's. Yowser.

As mentioned in the thread below, Phoenix411 has always been associated with reputable girls.  If disreputable behavior is reported, and TER apparently finds it a credible report, she doesn't belong among reputable providers.  If feathers are ruffled, it could be because unreputable providers are being promoted on TER alot lately (and now also on Phoenix411) right alongside girls who have worked hard for their reputations.  Just because a girl got you off for a low price does not make her reputable.  And the desire to put downward pressure on pricing should not be at the price of the community's standards.  Quality and safety should matter.

Now i completely agree with you regarding pimps they are sleeze and honestly deserve nothing but a deep hole out in the desert.

Craigslist however is just a site that offers free advertising, nothing more and nothing else.
The free aspect is why its so popular with many girls who would never adverttise on 411 or ter.

I have seen at least 40-60 ladies off of craigs with out any problems at all. I have also declined to see at least 20 for various reasons. The latter certainly shouldnt be seen as a condemnation of the former.

Craigslist is a lot of things however most of the guys who have bad experiences arent thinking with the right head.
Play it smart and youll be fine.

Yes i am honest enough to admit i enjoy the over all lower prices since I would rather hobby twice a week at 200 then once at 350.  

For all intents even though the ladies on craigs dont follow the standard price ive been seeing more and more on 411 doesnt mean they are less service oriented.
I will admit they arent as gfe by and large but with my schedule lately who has time for gfe....
Frankly i hope most guys are too scared to call the ladies of craigs since it means they will answer the phone when i call.

analysis of this situation....Lets take a look at some facts that are indisputable.........

1.  LE Targets Craigs List All Over the Country

2.  Phoenix Craigs List is known to have busts frequently

3.  The Ladie in question did in essence rip the reviewer off....and someone...broke through the door and threatened the reviewer....

4.  A bust on any Provider that is on CL and 411 can lead LE to 411 and put all there at risk...this due to the tactics such as those pointed out by the reviewer.  All painted with the same brush theory....

5.  If A Provider wants to better their business they can choose to leave CL and choose other venues ....TER, Cityvibe, Eros, etc...which have proven to be much safer in the long run........

6.  The majority of the reviews written off CL never make it above a 6 or 7 if that...with most much lower........is the risk worth finding that one "diamond in the rough"...not for me

No one cares how many "new blood's" come into the market place...there is enough for all in whatever their price catagor may be...........

This is not about economics this is about safety and that should be everyone's concern...it certainly is mine not only for clients but for the Ladies that intrust their safety to me every day........personally I take that very seriously and will not hesistate to speak out when I believe it is threatened in any way...

I truly believe that Providers from CL with no track record and questionable ethics don't belong on credible sites such as 411.net...If they prove to be credible and honest providers then they like others do deserve to have Glen consider them for his site....411.net stands for decent and honest Providers who do and make things right.....that is the foundation Glen built and it is well respected not only in our community but by those that use it as a measuring stick for who they wish to see in whatever price range they deem to be comfortable with..............

The only "politics" is that of wanting to be safe and not take unnecessary risks.........unknown and unproven providers with questionable tactics create risk until they have proven they are not a risk................

A reminder Hacker it was you that posted a few weeks ago you would seek out the "cheaper" providers and promote them......maybe you picked the wrong provider to promote in this case given the facts....which you posted you knew to be fact in a earlier thread.....................

So now any and all can flame away since I have joined Jordan, Anna, Victoria and Mya in trying to get the community to understand the issue is not just about "one girl"....it is bigger than that because the issue really is "Safety for all"

Man it up, dump the alias or just STFU.
If your too pussy to stand up for your opinion then you dont deserve to have one.

frankly i hope mr greenspan gets outed i like knowing who the cowards are.

but want to clarify I'm not "promoting" anyone and I've seen 1 gal from CL (Danielle's listing was cityvibe). I simply posted my experience here (as always) and followed up with a review. I've always made it clear that as a general rule you'll get what you pay for 99% of the time. It's pretty easy to see where I spend most of my money....

Ive had the same alais for six years. Many many hobbists and provider know the real name and face behind "moebius8". I am willing to stand behind anything i say. You sirrah, however, are far to pussy to do the same.

As for your assertion i see who i wish to see without your input. I honestly dont use the standard venues by choice. Your opinion on this or any other matter means nothing to me. I know what works and what doesnt for myself.

As you won't stand behind your opinon it is now merely discounted as the whining of a coward too afraid to stand behind what they say.

If your not too afraid to travel some great experiences are to be had for a young man out in the big strange world. If you havent had a Balls massage in thailand. Bar fined out a lady in the Phil, or hung out in the termas in Brazil then you have not lived.
Not surprising considering your cowardice however dont knock what your too afraid to try.


-- Modified on 10/10/2006 9:35:33 PM

Hell in all three locations you and your date for the night can get tested easily and quickly for a nominal fee 24 hours a day.
Things would be much better in the us if we had the same sort of testing options.
Also i never bareback it bleh....

-- Modified on 10/10/2006 11:18:12 PM