Yes I know, I’m breaking TER posting guidelines with CAPS in the subject.

I’m not fully sure where to begin to be honest; so I’m going to say this as I would to a child. IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY, SAY NOTHING AT ALL. What happens in your own lives is your own business. I do sympathize with a lot of you; providers & hobbyists alike. But this is turning into a bloody tabloid at times.

So this is going to stop, no more smearing, no more attacks, no more threats. if a provider ripped off a hobbyist, you can post a message for people to back channel you. you post anything negative/insulting though & your thread will be removed.

Ladies, same goes for you. if a hobbyist threatens you, insults you, robs you etc... i understand your need to want to get revenge/humiliate him etc. this is not the place for it, nor will it be allowed. You can warn ladies by simply stating what the person did, the items surrounding it. You can do this WITHOUT giving out names, phone numbers, and in some cases home address & social security #.

You used to work for an agency, and now are an independent....you are having trouble in your life....you can't assume that the agency is orchestrating a smear attack to ruin your life....

Please people, use some common sense when you’re posting. Think for a moment, is posting this going to cause problems? If you hesitate for a moment... then don’t post it. We are not here for problems/drama/acts. This is a fun place to come and chat.

Please don’t turn it into a place where Gestapo like moderating is required. if you see something that i might have missed from someone that is unmoderated ... PM me & let me know.

Thanks to those who play nice & try and keep the peace. Your help is appreciated more than you know.

Dingus15

Partially plagiarized from Pluged....thanks bud!

Dingus, I respectfully disagree with your thoughts. Granted this is YOUR board to moderate and you can do as you please.

This is the place to mention issues good or bad with in the hobby if...key word IF it is done correctly and tactifully without mentioning names or using slander.

After all, isn't this place we come to get information to stay safe and get a rock my world session?

If I thought it was true, I would allow the post...but my instincts tell me not all the facts are correct and the statements are so inflamatory, that unless I feel sure they are true, they won't be posted.

D15

PS....you guys are much more polite than the folks in Boston, Phillie, NY or DC....where I have faced similar issues over the years.....

Thanks for your comments and concerns, but this will pass....maybe it's time for a forensic audit into the myspace account and compare ip addresses from the offending post and use that information to track down who really sent the "outting" message.

Thanks Dingus for taking time to respond personally to my concerns to the issues.

Keep up the great work of keeping the animals inline.

Dingus, I hate to say it but, there seems to be so much tension out there regarding this subject that I feel hurt will come of it if the story is not out in the open and known by all who have stong feelings on the matter.  It might serve this community well if you looked into the matter and then cleared it all up publicly.  Rumors hurt, lives can be changed, business' can fail and those involved are the losers.  Silence is usually a sign of guilt, just ask anyone in LE.  I think you have been doing a great job on this board, except for this issue.  We in the community need to know and IMHO have a right to know.

have asked for a copy of the alleged email with header information.....there are many issues at play here.....I'm not convinced that there was any wrong doing here.

I have never let rumors take on a life of there own.....

I am not happy at the underhanded manner that this got to the board....it is personal and this board is no place for a personal attack....

D15

Again, I hope I am not wrong here....if I find facts that prove otherwise, I will change my toon....but I pretty sure I'm right.

about all one ask and I think most of us trust your judgement.

you have my appologies. My feeling was/is that the questions/rumors had such a high back channel bandwidth that it served the "greater good" to tactfully broach the question here. Obviously hundreds of people already had questions. If Sean addressed the issue privately with you and you feel statisfied then I think that puts the issue to rest for the rest of us.......

I need your e-mail address.

I will be writing more in the e-mail but i just wanted to apologize for the underhanded approach that I took to get this out there.  Trust me,
I would not go to such extremes if there was even 1%  doubt in my mind.  Anyway, my e-mail is [email protected], pls e-mail me so i have your e-mail address to forward what you've asked for.  Thanks for your considertion, and i apologize again..

You appear to have your head screwed on right.

Not knowing all the facts (and really it's none of my business, I just get annoyed by injustice), I'll have to defer to your knowledge of the situation.

I still stand by my comments below, but I'm willing to entertain the idea that in this particular instance I was *gasp* wrong and jumped to conclusions. ;^)

I do think this particular instance might be better served with some followup.

Dingus:

You unmoderated me for which I am eternally grateful, and I have never posted an attack against anyone (although I once said something derogratory about Hacker) and I will not impune anyones character here.  However, reputations have been impuned and accusations leveled and back channel communiques have been strong in their accusations and sentiments.

Obviously much of what is posted on TER is he said, she said, by nature, and you did not not do Sean a favor by making the decision to wipe the slate clean.  The only way that will happen is with an open discourse of this issue so everyone can make up their own mind as to what really occured with facts.  This is a legitimate forum for that discussion, and I think you do a dis-service to all concerned, especially to the 2 combatants by saying if you can't say something nice say nothing at all.  Over the past 9 months I have seen a lot of posts here that would never be considered nice by anyone.

Unfortunately, on this matter mud has been thrown, has clearly landed, there has been no rebuttal, and the information is all one-sided. While you may have knowledge that some of us do not have, without that information a proper decision cannot be determined, and there is a clear loser in back channel communiques.

Ed01

In my experience, Dingus has shown discretion, intelligence, and good judgment.  If he says he believes Sean, I am going to believe Sean as well.  Though I don't know and have never had the opportunity to do business with Sean, I have observed the behavior of Dingus over the past several months, and I have enough evidence that he is a sensible man to allow me to believe him.

That said, I also believe that it would be appropriate for someone, whether it be Dingus or Sean or whomever else may know THE TRUTH, to post that truth on this board so that we can all cease our wondering.  

Truth is the only antidote to rumours and speculation.  There can be, in my opinion, no harm in knowing the truth.  While it, for example, broke my heart to learn there is no Santa Claus, I'm glad I know.  

We may not all like the Truth, but we have a moral obligation to ourselves and to each other to search for it, so that our decisions can be based, as much as possible, in fact.

I'm especially eager to know the truth because I want very much to see one of the H.I.P.S. providers, but I am reticent to do so if I don't know that the man who is faciliting this for me is, as are all of the other agency owners I have had the privilege to know, a person of honor and discretion.  As I said, based on what Dingus has said, I'm inclined to believe he is... but, I would really feel better if I knew with the same certainty that I know Divas, and some of the other agencies, are above reporoach.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on the board who is hesitant to do business with them right now, and I would like to have my doubts put to rest so I can get on with the real function of this board:  meeting high quality providers and enjoying myself.

Thanks for all your work, Dingus.  You run an excellent board, and I am truly grateful for your work.  I only hope you'll learn all of the facts and share them with us soon.

Fred

Dingus

It's about time.  But don't limit it to this one post.  This board, which used to be a forum for discussions about hobbying and playful banter has turned into a forum for the bashing of individuals, their reputations and services as well as outright threats.  I didn't see the post in question, but I've seen enough.  If you'll notice, in the last few days allot of the ladies who've been regulars on this board for quite awhile have stopped posting.

Why?

Well, when providers are told in this forum "Your a guest on "MY BOARD" (obviously it's Dingus's board){but its really the "hobbiests board [IMO]} please rtember that and be on your best behavior..."(sic) by an individual whose "goal is to put it back out here where it belongs", they tend to be wonder why bother.  I for one enjoy their post and don't understand why anyone thinks "the board exists to provide information for HOBBIESTS"(sic).  The board exists for both hobbyist and providers alike.

Yet in another thread this same poster tells a provider "you come across as a total ditz" and your posts are welcome as long as your not "going to post your normal inane dribble".  Well, when providers are viciously attacked, they tend to be offended.  WTF, I take offense at such statements

Then two different providers are told "You are an idiot!" and "Whores like you who cahrge too much to act as GFEs are ridiculous!!!!"(sic) by the another hobbyist.  And then he posts again saying he actually meant "Whore" and provides the definition of the word.

Why are derogatory statements like the above allowed?  Since you're the moderator, why aren't these posts removed and the posters moderated?  And please don't tell me that someone hiding behind an alias can't be identified.  That is far from fact.  If you need help locating them, let me know, I'll be glad to help.

I for one would like to have the ladies return.  I miss their posts and will, like many others, not visit or use this forum if the ladies are excluded because of post like the above.  If you're truly going to moderate the board, then do so and get these individuals off the board.

TC

piranhad,

I may have missed it, but I did not read anything that said who Dingus believes in this matter.  His post was about not attacking people on the Board, not about who he believed or what he thought was factual.  That's why I suggested full disclosure in this case.  Other than that, I concur 100% with your post - truth is the only antidote for rumours and speculation, and only the truth shall set us free.

Ed01

either my post regarding HIPS or my earlier comments which you brought up here. you continue to amaze me with your hypocritical and blatently inaccurate posts.

1) this is 1st and formost a hobbiests board. I welcome the gals wholeheartedly.....but not at the expense of candid accurate information exchange.

2) The gal in question does come across like a ditz, I'm amazed at the number of inane comments she posts. Again that is simply my opinion....

It also appears that you are attributing comments to me regarding pricing and the use of the word "whore"....please either post a link to the threads in question or retract this bit of slander....

It's apparent that you have some type of ax to grind with me, yet you contribute absolutely nothing of value yourself here.

It appears that you favor a "forum for disscussions about hobbying" that fits only your specific agenda. Anytime your faced with someone who articulates an opposing point of view you rely on half truths and distortion instead of actual dialogue or debate. No one is stopping you or any of the ladies (whoever they might be) from posting here....you may however feel free to stop osting here with my blessing...

who thrive on conflict.  We even have one member here who COMPLAINED about the cordiality of the posts, and actually CHEERED when some conflict arose!  I'm sorry, but I think that's sick.

There is a small group of gentlemen, most of whom are actually part of an hobbyist club (so to speak), who try to govern their relationships with providers with no small degree of intimidation (mostly financial).  They get what they want, at the price they want it, and woe unto the lady who won't play their game. I'm afraid much of the gang-like behavior we see here (including much of the slamming of ladies) comes from members of that group.

Now, some of them decided to grab their cyber-pitchforks and cyber-torches, form a posse, and head for the lynching tree.  I have no idea whether or not it will turn out that Sean committed the offense in question, but what I do know that I think this matter should have been handled differently, and it is symptomatic of the sociological problems on this board.  The fact is that the men on this board are now sharply divided between those who are gentlemen, and those who are not.  In my mind, this is no place for incivility, rudeness, personal attacks, catty comments, etc.  Those of us who understand and appreciate manners can do a lot to support those who are attacked rudely or inappropriately, but it's up to Dingus15 (and ultimately, TER) to decide if I'm right.

I believe the lovely gentleman who used the W word and then sought to defend it was snijder, and I also believe he earned himself moderation.

to engage in this discussion. It's people like you who hide behind an alias to slander others that cause the problems here.

Seans issue was out to hundreds of people and needed to be addressed IMO....so I brought it up here in the "open" when the opportunity presented itself. I appreciate dingus's "investigation" and stand behind his decision on the issue completely. There was no "witch hunt" of any kind and the issue has been resolved vs lingering on....

your comments on "ganglike" behavior are completely wrong...please post links to this "slamming"....and no, calling someone a ditz is not slamming...

This is a board for disscussion, which implies both debate and conflicting points of view. You are among a small group of individuals who seem to have an agenda of controlling this board by removing that healthy exchange of divergent viewpoints and replacing it with a "vanilla" BBS that allows only your point of view....

Further no one who hides behind an "electronic white sheet" should call themself a gentleman. If you want to make comments like this and have them taken seriously then ditch the alias.

either.  I agree with you Hacker that the issue should have been brought into the open and am glad you posted raising the matter.  While I do not know either of the people involved it is clear that someone has been outed and that someone has been viciously attacked.  There has been no evidence that I've seen presented on this thread as to who wronged who in their accusations, but it is clear that someone's reputation is wrongly being trashed. We just don't know who that is based on the information (or lack of information) presented here.  The people on this board have the ability to interpret data, but when one person says "trust me" because he investigated and does not share the data, he does not settle the matter, but raises more questions than he answers, regardless of his position, and does a dis-service to everyone.

So we will continue to churn on a beautiful Thursday in Phoenix, as the world turns.

Ed01

My apologies hacker, how forgetful of me.  I forgot to get permission to post on what you like to refer to as "MY BOARD".  Oh, wait, isn't this the Phoenix Discussion Board, not azhacker's Discussion Board?  So I really don't need your permission do I?  Apology retracted.

Anyone with a handle can post anything they want without your permission, and providers who post do not have to be on their "best behavior...".  As long as they follow TER's rules and "don't post anything that is simply being mean, uses foul language, or that gives out sensitive information about someone" they are allow to post and they shouldn't have to entertain ridicule from anyone.  I don't know of a single voting process that appointed you the guardian of this board with the stated "goal is to put it back out here where it belongs".  These were your statements and if anyone is owed an apology, it's the entire board by you.

Also, according to TER, you shouldn't "post anything that is simply being mean".  To me, calling someone a "ditz" is "simply being mean" and was posted to belittle an independent provider I'm sure you haven't met.  Agreed, she isn't one of the "agency girls" you like to rave about on the board, but she is definitely not a "ditz".  Your post was intended to belittle and/or degrade her, and it was definitely "mean" and spiteful.  Since you are not the guardian of the board, you're the one who should apologize.

I too have opinions, you can imagine the opinion I have of you, but I do not post derogatory, slanderous or belittling statement, I address the fact which are not "hypocritical and blatently inaccurate"(sic), I quoted statement by you to which you seem to take offense.  If you don't like it then quit being "mean" and bullying anyone whose post, in your opinion, don't meet your criteria of an expectable post.  After all, you are not the guardian of this board.

No, I do not "favor a "forum for disscussions about hobbying" that fits only your specific agenda"(sic).  I favor a forum where you can exchange information without the fear of being bludgeoned by a self appointed demigod whose only "goal is to put it back out here where it belongs" by belittles and degrades posters simply to be "mean".

as clueless as you appear to be? !st I said her post made her come across as a ditz....she then said she posted under the wrong thread?,,,,Gee, sounds a bit ditzy to me. It's pretty easy to recognize that the "my board" post refers to hobbiests as a whole....not me specifically.

Your post above mixes in comments I made and comments I didnt indicriminately....so yes your inaccurate and manipulative. Further you seem to want to compartmentalize me into some kind of "agency flunky"....yet my recent best value list didnt have a single agency gal on it. The truth is you seem to hold a grudge over my previous comments on a specific gal. You seem to feel that you are a surrigate board monitor of some kind....

Again you completely avoid the subject matter of this (and just about any other serious thread) and choose to simply rant on your point of view...and yet you imply that I'm a bully.

you are just what this board needed. I totally agree with how you are going to run things here. Its time those that were once afraid to post here now have some assurance that things will be fair. Thank you Dingus15

Again, your missing the point.

This is the Phoenix Discussion Board, not the Phoenix Hobbyist Discussion Board or the azhacker Discussion Board.  Anyone, hobbyist, provider or whatever can and may post on this board.  And providers do not have to on their "best behavior" to post, they can have an impartial discourse without your or any other hobbyist permission.  To post such an ridiculous statement only points to the disdain you have for the ladies who frequent the board.  If nothing else, you owe the ladies of Phoenix who frequent this board an apology!

Your choice of words when belittling an individual is extremely hurtful and mean.  Calling someone a "ditz", even if the statement was "you come across as a total ditz", was only intended to belittle the individual, an individual who you are "amazed at the number of inane comments she posts".  It was not intended to point out an error by the poster but to degrade the poster and be "mean".  You definitely owe her an apology!

Now to my mixing statement and accusing you of posts which you didn't author, I have just one question for you.  Can you read and interpret what you read?  Obviously you cannot, so maybe I should switch to smaller words just for you.  Quoted statements were all yours unless otherwise noted.  For example, "As long as they follow TER's rules and" followed by a quoted statement is obviously a quote from TER.  Another, "according to TER, you shouldn't" followed by a quoted statement was also obviously from TER.  Maybe you don't understand English, but that's how the language works.  All other quoted statements were yours, and you cannot hide from the truth as much as you'd obviously like to.

And no, I do not want to be a board monitor, I just cannot stand a bully.  Aliases are allowed by TER, but you belittle anyone using them.  For example, AppropriateUseOfAnAlias below.  If you have a problem with aliases, take it up with TER, but no, you tactic is to shoot the messengers.  Since you won't address the issue in his post, I'm not hiding behind an alias.  I too have heard from local providers that they have been threatened with bludgeoning, berating and belittlement on this board unless the reduce their rates for a certain group of individuals.  You seem to want to run away from this issue, but you love to demean providers you haven't even met.  You know, one and one does equals two, or maybe you can't handle math either.

There is nothing the matter with forming a mutual group to influence market forces. im not a member of the group you mention since i can bargain for myself. I dont have an issue with any of them however.

In all honesty you illustrate quite nicely why the alias needs to be disabled.
1 use of heresay to malign a group
2 insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you or doesnt dislike the above group is not a gentleman

the board is the best place for airing of grievances (you attempted to air yours above after all). Unless you plan on renting a hall and having a Festivus celebration (i would love to hear the airing of grievances from Sheika Fatima ) for all and sundry in the community where would you propose the issues that arise be aired?

btw trying to pigeonhole the men on the board into two camps is down right insulting. By your definition im no gentleman, yet i have never had anyone complain about my behavior or deportment in public or private.

Sometimes my sarcasm or wit may only be funny to me.  I believe azhacker was innocently making a comment and meant no harm regarding the "ditz" thing.  He was basically reiterating my thoughts in a different format. I admit that I read stuff on here and shake my head asking myself what in the world.  I have been nicknamed "the man with a 1,000 comments" and sometimes people just open themselves up....ya, I know the cliche, nothing nice to say etc, but I in a round about way I had a legitimate question and offered a suggestion to someone who seemed to post a lot of inane dribble that had much ado about nothing.....oops, there goes my smart ass-ness...is that a word?  No, that's just me coming across as a ditz.
Peace

I'm tired of being referred to as a "ditz" or "sounding like a ditz." I have been posting here for five years and no one has ever referred to me as a ditz until the past few weeks. Quite honestly, I was not going to retaliate with any other posts, but the deragatory comments just keep coming in about me. Even National board members are emailing me about it and asking, "Why is this is happening to you? You are so nice, intelligent and caring." Perhaps some of us just like to flirt on the board and we have sarcastic-style humor that flys over some heads? If you knew me, you would automatically know I was not a ditz and to assume so is pure ignorance.  

Can you imagine the type of influence you guys carry on this board for those that are new to TER? What do you think they assume when they read these "inane responses?" It could affect someone's business. Please think before you state something on TER that is negative about anyone, be it hobbyist or provider, especially if you do not know them. There are many people whom I do not agree with on TER but I do not slander them or presume to know them. I have received more emails from angry providers and hobbyists in my defense regarding these statements being made against me. Some of you boast about injustices to Sean and how things said on TER could affect his business, but then you bash a provider on a public board without knowing the truth and seem to think that is okay. Even to imply something like that is hurtful and ignorant. Again, please refrain from rude comments. I think we are all getting tired of it. Can we all get along?

I believe human beings can have differing opinions, but I also believe (because I am a polite and educated lady) that you can do so in a way that is not belittling or bordering on the edge of "defamation of character."

Wit, charm and grace go a long way with most people if given the opportunity.


Peace & hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 4/20/2006 11:47:39 PM

-- Modified on 4/20/2006 11:48:58 PM

-- Modified on 4/21/2006 8:57:42 AM

but your seriously confused (thats a polite way of calling you an idiot).

" I too have heard from local providers that they have been threatened with bludgeoning, berating and belittlement on this board unless the reduce their rates for a certain group of individuals.  You seem to want to run away from this issue"

Please show me a single factual example of this continuously trumpeted falsehood. This is typical of the type of blatent lies you sling around here on the BBS. Or am I wrong here in assuming that this comment

"You seem to want to run away from this issue, but you love to demean providers you haven't even met.  You know, one and one does equals two, or maybe you can't handle math either."

isn't ment to imply that I am guilty of this alledged "BBS bludgeoning". This is exactly the same tactic you used in the original post on this thread. You start with a factual piece of information which you twist into a self-serving half truth and then seemlessly transition to your "real topic" which is an unfounded allegation or attack....your actually the worst kind of bully.

My comment was primarily directed at your post under the thread in which it was made....which you later came back and said you misposted there. The bottom line is the post didnt make sense and I reacted accordingly. As usual TC leaves alot out....starting with the "makes you look like a"...which is what I actually wrote and followed by "Your opinion is certainly both valid and welcome {assuming you have one}" which clearly recognizes both your right to comment positively or negatively and the fact that your opinion carries just as much "weight" as mine or anyone elses here.

Further he implies that I'm somehow "bashing" you with some specific agenda and motive....which I'm not. Now if you want to consider me rude, so be it. But trust me, al;ot of folks have reacted to some of your posts the same way...I simply came out and told you how I felt about it. Further I've never once mentioned you or linked you to the "comment" here.

I don't believe I mentioned your name above but I do beleive I was poking fun at myself.  So don't get your panties in a wad over much ado about nothing, inane dribble, or ditzy comments....wink

-- Modified on 4/21/2006 6:43:22 PM

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me and/or very little business sense on your part. What better counter to price fixing, price gouging, rip offs, black balling, etc. on the part of the ladies or agencies than organized men's groups. If you don't like what they have to offer, don't participate, but taking shots is pretty lame!