I don't post nearly as often as I read the Phoenix board (the closest board to Tucson) though I consider myself usually up to date on the Phoenix 'scene.' I've been a part of this 'community' long enough to see many providers and hobbyists come and go. I've even had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know several outstanding Phoenix area providers in my time here.
With that said here are my thoughts on your topics...
1. No real thoughts on this one. I think both providers and hobbyists have to have certain psychological characteristics in the first place to be part of this 'scene.' Not good or bad.
2. I've never understood the big commotion and ranting/raving over the shill posts. I equate a 'shill' with a prop player in poker. This is essentially a player at the poker table that is payed by the house to encourage action at the table. Usually they are easy to spot. Not always. There is the case that can be made that certain hobbyists are getting 'kick-backs' or discounts for their ability to drum up business for certain providers. So what? If I decide to see a lady at her published (read rank and file)rate it will be because I did my homework and felt she was worth it. So what if some other hobbyist can see her for less $$ for whatever arrangement he has with her. Not my business. However, most of the so-called shill posts I see on the Phoenix board aren't truly shill in the defined sense. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly Tucson hobbyist, lol.
3. I have NEVER even defined an alias let alone used one. Don't know if I ever will but so far anything I've ever said (review, post, PM, whatever) has been with my identity known (at least my TER identity). Heck, I even provide my TER handle to providers as a screening option if they want it. I'm definitely with you on this one, Aria!
Now, I don't know if this is a shill or not - especially since I've never, ever seen or met her but after reading this post from Aria I'm definitely thinking it would be worth the trip from Tucson. Not sure she'll take me as a client but she's definitely now on my Phoenix short list!
Okay, so the board and the news has provided a nice platform from which a few really good conversations have taken place. I’ve found myself involved in some really intelligent debates and wanted to open it up to opinions I’m not always exposed to. So… please feel free to drop in your two cents anywhere along the way.
#1: The Sheika posted something about NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and I’ve heard it more than once when discussing ‘hobbyists’ particularly.
To recap, NPD is characterized by the following:
has a grandiose sense of self-importance
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is “special” and unique
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement
is interpersonally exploitative
lacks empathy
is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes...
Now, I understand the psychology of this, but admittedly I would have to say that it only applies to perhaps 2% of the hobbyists I know. I’m also taking into consideration the concept that many of us (myself included) like to believe that we are special and unique.
However, I would venture to say that I find hobbyists to be more ‘normal’ than society assumes them to be. Then again, I think it’s abnormal to pursue sexually monogamous relationships, which is simply against human nature. (Feel free to disagree.) I don’t come across NPD often and wonder if it truly is pervasive to the hobby, or just something specific to random fellahs like Spitzer.
Please… chime in.
#2: The Phoenix board… and ‘The Big Shill’. Okay, forgive me for not being very PC. What the hell qualifies as a ‘shill’? I’m still unclear on this one. In my day, a ‘Shill’ or a ‘Claque’ was someone hired to sit up in the audience at a theatre or opera house to clap enthusiastically or weep at the appropriate times. People began hiring shills to create buzz about their product using crowd psychology. It’s typically illegal in any instance where the shill doesn’t live up to its claims (false advertising) and there is a potential loss to the everyman. But perfectly legal elsewhere. Big business, in fact.
Taking all of that into consideration, I’d say that any advocacy on the board is appropriate. The onus is on the ‘shill’ that the ‘product’ live up to his claims. If he’s willing to put his reputation on the line for a provider, that alone should speak volumes, right? Am I totally off?
#3: I went back and reread the post regarding aliases and attacking shills and what-not. I’m not a fan of aliases. I don’t use ‘em. If I can’t stand behind what I say, I won’t say it.
So, on the subject of DFCs… Can I be a DSC (Dumb Skinny Cow) instead? I just don’t know if I want to take on any new self-image issues in regards to weight right now. My plate’s kinda full.
And actually… I don’t have a lot of guys raving about me, either. I would like to think that it’s not because I provide such ‘lackluster service’; but rather because I’m fairly UTR, don’t often take new clients, and engage gentlemen from a variety of backgrounds… not just TER. I guess I’m just not sure which categories we’re all trying to pigeon-hole one another into.
Anyhow… it just seems that there’s been a lot of negativity floating around.
I’ve been feeling a bit of the ‘Spring Fever’ myself, lately.
I vote for a day trip to the lake… soon!!
Who’s with me?!
1 ive never really run into this as a problem. there are some emotionally needy providers out there but thats not the same thing. its a little disconcerting to deal with however.
2 there is a group who engages in collective bargaining (you may have chatted with them or may not depending)
part of the agreement involves creating positive buzz so non members will see you at the higher rates you charge the rank and file citizen for your service.
the idea is the collective bargaining group gets a discount and you break even off the nonmembers.
hence i disregard all reviews and shills since i dont know the currrent member list of this group of gentlemen i dont know whom i can put my trust in.
imo a review in the phoenix section is only good for contact info because of agenda and this group. hence i write them rarely myself and only if the session was special and worth remark.
i also tend to seek out those ladies i know wont play ball with this group, or that this group wouldnt be willing to take the risk to see. either because of lack of reputation or advertising venue.
(i love craigs shitty rep it makes my life much easier)
all that i said above taken, there is nothing wrong or immoral about singing the praises of a lady or the session.
the current climate of the phoenix board however precludes my putting any trust in such praises.
3 given the things aliases are used to post i simply cant see the need for them. all the arguments here are falling on deaf ears. once a week i hit the suggestion box and beg them to disable aliases.
guys who see a girl based on shilling, who then get disappointed because she was not worthy of shilling end up leaving the board, realizing they have been duped.
most guys dont want to be a part of a community like that.
A-
You have a PM.
I don't post nearly as often as I read the Phoenix board (the closest board to Tucson) though I consider myself usually up to date on the Phoenix 'scene.' I've been a part of this 'community' long enough to see many providers and hobbyists come and go. I've even had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know several outstanding Phoenix area providers in my time here.
With that said here are my thoughts on your topics...
1. No real thoughts on this one. I think both providers and hobbyists have to have certain psychological characteristics in the first place to be part of this 'scene.' Not good or bad.
2. I've never understood the big commotion and ranting/raving over the shill posts. I equate a 'shill' with a prop player in poker. This is essentially a player at the poker table that is payed by the house to encourage action at the table. Usually they are easy to spot. Not always. There is the case that can be made that certain hobbyists are getting 'kick-backs' or discounts for their ability to drum up business for certain providers. So what? If I decide to see a lady at her published (read rank and file)rate it will be because I did my homework and felt she was worth it. So what if some other hobbyist can see her for less $$ for whatever arrangement he has with her. Not my business. However, most of the so-called shill posts I see on the Phoenix board aren't truly shill in the defined sense. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly Tucson hobbyist, lol.
3. I have NEVER even defined an alias let alone used one. Don't know if I ever will but so far anything I've ever said (review, post, PM, whatever) has been with my identity known (at least my TER identity). Heck, I even provide my TER handle to providers as a screening option if they want it. I'm definitely with you on this one, Aria!
Now, I don't know if this is a shill or not - especially since I've never, ever seen or met her but after reading this post from Aria I'm definitely thinking it would be worth the trip from Tucson. Not sure she'll take me as a client but she's definitely now on my Phoenix short list!
1) I can't really speak about any hobbiest/providers NPD tendencies yet, but I imagine there are a few. As for me.. damn right I'm "special"...but special in a "wears a hockey helmet but isn't on a team" sort of way...
2) Some of the shill posts are funny and a bit over the top. But, I just ignore anything that doesn't interest me. To each their own I guess. Consistent, multiple, and good reviews seem to carry more weight than the shill posts.
3) I used an alias once....ONCE(in Joe Piscopo voice), but realized there's not much point to it I guess. It's not like "desrtrat" is on my birth certificate, so this handle is good enough. I'll just try not to say anything I can't defend or that I'm embarassed enough about that I can't put my normal handle too...eh..just my 2 cents worth.
1. read their ads. mine included. hilarious.
2. the only problem i have with them is that they all sound the same. insert different name. just would be nice if the shillers got a lil creative and i think they might be alot more effective. 'really hot' seems to be way overdone and it just screams fake. i'm sorry, i'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers, i'm not against shilling but i would like to see more interesting shills. overall, i could care less how anyone chooses to run their business, i dont feel like its my business and i dont expect anyone to have the same values and principles and ethics i do..
3. i might use an alias if i dont want anyone to know its me thats posting lol. for various reasons some of which are noble and some of which maybe not so noble but i never really trust that i'm going to be anonymous so i dont say anything that i couldnt own up to, just in case dingus starts flipping out.
the only thing i really have a problem with is insults. i hate to see any provider get insulted because being out here, being judged and rated on every thing we do and say is really really hard. we put ourselves out there and for someone to feel a need to put us down, its really a hit below the belt everytime. ... i'd like to see every guy that insults a girl on here to post a pic of their weienr and let us be the judge, maybe get a lil back channel info on how studly you are.... no, we'd never do that because we arent here to hurt you... we're here because we care about you.
robs make more money than we do and they dont take the legal risks that we do. that is a fact. selling a lingerie show for up to an hour means she shows her panties as she's trotting out the door with your money... up to an hour means between 1-59 minutes ... most of them are in and out with your money within 10 minutes, she didnt break any laws and she'll do it 10 times a night.
whether you like us or not, appreciate the fact that we're willing to be judged and inspected and graded... we're willing to stand behind our service and we try to protect you by giving references to each other so you dont have to take chances ..... we're not the ones robbing you and i think all of us deserve a hell of lot more respect than what we have been getting. whether or not you like our service, we are at least providing you a service.
im happy for you guys that you have gotten spoiled. most of you deserve it. some of you need to have your internet taken away so you can go back to the yellow pages for a while and then come back when you can show some respect.
i dont expect you to respect me.. i just expect you to show me respect.. no you dont just pay me... maybe some girls ... but i will not tolerate disrespect at any price... i'm selling MUFFY, not my dignity.
The Sheika agrees and disagrees. Indeed, it is absolutely true that hobbyist and providers are much more normal than society assumes; but, what is society and what is normal?... And, what really goes on during most session?
In this wonderful country--with all its great freedoms and hope for social mobility—there is a tendency to ignore a very disheartening trend. We are slowly loosing the middle class.
This trend has been going on since the 1970’s.
It is becoming very difficult to “pull yourself up by your boot straps”. There are many, many providers who have great character and commitment; but, because of situational issues they find themselves in a business that is perceived as tawdry, and immoral. This image is perpetuated in the media and it mirrors the image contained in the dark recesses of most soccer mom’s minds… Providers are marginalized. Even if they make a very good living, they hide what they do…
Now, sociologically speaking, at sometime in their life, most providers have found themselves in precarious economic circumstance. They truly need money, or they think they need money, or they think they need MORE money in a hurry. Most providers find themselves in the business because of situational issues that can’t be solved by socially acceptable means. The boot straps just aren’t there.
The illegal business of prostitution is simply a means to an end. The hobby maybe a hobby to clients but to providers it is a business pure and simple. The Sheika knows this is not a popular position to express on these boards, but It is true; unfortunately, it is really true…
Narcissistic personality disorder:
The Sheika believes that few hobbyists have an appreciable degree of NPD—unlike the turn coat scum bag ex-governor of New York. On the contrary, most hobbyists are involved in the hobby because deep down inside they have unfulfilled needs… (Now, everyone, please listen: Every provider who has been in the business for at least three years will have a solid intuitive knowledge of what I am about to say. Many might not agree totally, but they will recognize a very large degree of truth in what the Sheika knows to be a fact)…
Many, many hobbyists have displaced animosities, or an appreciable vacuum of affection. Whether consciously or sub-consciously, hobbyist seek the services of a prostitute to boost their self-esteem. Most do not feel entitled as do those diagnosed with NPD. On the contrary, deep down inside, most hobbyists who are working people born in the States feel inferior; or, they feel persecuted; or they feel unfulfilled. That is the psychological impetus of the business.
As for what really goes on in a hobbyist/provider session: Why it is a treatment or pseudo therapy for the psychological maladies inflicted on us by a changing culture that no longer lives up to its promises.
I Love you all.
PEACE,
Sheika Fatima
[email protected]