Phoenix

My comments above are somewhat generic.......
azhacker 1872 reads
posted

and directly related to some aspects of my conversation with Mya. Do I agree with her point of view entirely....NO. However, she has some very well thought out arguements that are worthy of consideration. I'll try to illustrate....

two "newbies" enter the "hobby". John doe goes to Phoenix411 and books 5 sessions at an average cost of $300 (just because its a nice round number). He has 5 "quality" sessions....

Joe Doe goes to eros and books five sessions at an average of $300 also. He has one superduper fivestar session and one cash and dash rip off. The other three fall in between with a $300 HJ (oh well fullservice is an extra $500) a I dont do ABC&D slam bam and go and a good session (on a par with mine with Danielle for example).

Over all John got a much better initiation then Joe did and got more for his money. Glens site IS the only one I know of with as close to a 100% sure thing gaurantee as you can get. Do I think Danielle should have been booted...personally no. But I 100% completely agree with both Glenn & Mya that that "gold plated" reputation is worth protecting.

Are all the 411 gals "better" then everyone else....NO. Like everything else you have some measure of bellshaped curve. The top 20 gals on 411 are probably the top 20 in the valley. The bottom 20 are probably better then at least 60% of the non 411 gals. Are there great values elsewhere SURE there are.

The coincidence of the # of "411" posts (anebelle) etc meshed nicely with Mya's arguement that a lot of "lurkers" (many with little experience) are influenced by posts like mine and get steered in potentially dangerous directions. I do think thats a very valid point.

Anytime your going to contribute in the manner I tend to there is an obligation ot explore and evaluate the "opposing" point of view. When you find merit in that viewpoint you can either incorporate it and modify your own thoughts or be a mindless drone.

My post here takes nothing away from other worthy possibilities it simply highlights two very real facts...

1) Glenns site is the only one here (and maybe in the country) with a real proactive quality control concept.

2) Beyond the legal risks the hobby is fraught with both outright fraud and tremendous variations in the quality of service.

This post simply is ment to help those starting out maximize both safety and enjoyment....nothing more.

azhacker2190 reads

with all the recent 411 requests and other banter on the BBS I thought a quick run down on some of the basics might help a bit....again this is obviously 1 persons perspective so take it as an opinion.

1st anyone new to the "game" needs to recognize a few things. Most importantly that as an UNKOWN entity you have inherent risk and that will effect everything from what info you get down to the quality of your sessions. So 1st and formost recognize the need to move from "UNKOWN" to KNOWN...

That does not mean you need to create a "public persona" here on the BBS or even write a review....simply starting right will help. We have a large number of indies and agencies that will gladly share info for references etc...trust me it will make your world much much easier.

An added benifit is in giving you a good benchmark on what to expect. Many people (including me) have had a 1st experience that basically boils down to being ripped off. You'll have plenty of opportunity later to explore the whole range of offerings....but starting with a well known indie or agency gives you a referance source, quality experience and confidence on how things SHOULD go...

The "value equation" revisited....

There is obviously a range of options at widely varying price points. Basically the more you pay the more should reasonably expect. The less you pay the more likely you are to experience lesser service and/or other non desirable adventures. Personally to me its simple...$400 is a reasonable cap...I pass on ANYTHING over that (but thats me). At pricing of ~$300 and up I stick to well KNOWN (realize my 411 base includes alot of private info) gals or angencies (thats where most of my play is). When I go below that my expectations go down (so my suprises are positive if anything). I'm still rarely or ever the 1st guy on the beach (and if your reading this and its new to you then you best hang back even further).

Dont expect Filet Mignon at big mac pricing...but dont settle for a $400 big mac either:):). Spending time initially with a few good indie AND agency gals will give you a solid grounding in the hobby as well as some "friends in the business". You'll be better equipped to deal with unexpected events and have some exposure to what your real wants and desires are. Overall this will greatly help you expand your horizons without the "deer in the headlights" look we all had at some point.

Realize that "1st times" are as tough on the gals as they are for you (especially at the higher end). Thats why 2nd or even 3rd sessions are often so much better. Invest the time and money in the beginning to become a well connected savvy participant and you'll be well ahead of the game in the long run......

Again just one guys two cents...

While I’m not disagreeing in your post. As you are obviously speaking from experience, and me just from my own feelings. LOL

But I think that unless a provider’s services are NOT stated or implied in her ad [in which case you’d have to go by the get more if pay more idea]  its reasonable to expect the same stuff from a girl with a 250 gift as a girl  in the same city with a 400 gift, if they both for example, say they offer--and really do offer GFE. [And I mean the ones who really do, not the ones who just put those three magic letters in an ad because they  saw it somewhere]  


Of course my example presumes that other factors like  city, age, cuteness, review history are about the same.


Maybe the rate difference could be instead  be related to  how much above and beyond the provider’s comfort or expected zone she feels she is going  to accommodate her guests.  But I’d think a lot of girls who choose to provide GFE do so because things like DFK, intimacy, and a real-first-date experience are the only way intimacy can be comfortable for us. I know that’s true for me. So for me, it would be more uncomfortable and out of my comfort zone to try to NOT include those things, even if from an accounting viewpoint those things are getting more--someone would really be getting more out of me by wanting me to exclude them.

I know everyone is different. But it seems to me like as a provider you either feel natural and comfortable only when  intimacy is in a GFE setting. Or you’re one of those people that  can only feel comfortable if you detach yourself by not doing those things. Either way, I don’t see how both settings could be comfortably on the same provider’s menu,  separated by a gift difference of a couple hundred dollars.


When  I’ve been shown details of  other provider’s GFE sessions who ask for much more than I do, I have  never  come across one who included things that  I don’t. I NEVER once saw an account of  someone’s session and thought `Wow. That’s taking GFE to a whole new level. I’d have to  increase my appropriate gift to do that! Never one time. I’m not even sure how a true gfe would have a higher level. Yeah we all have different styles and personalities. But at the GFE level, to me, you are either completely into the passion of the experience. Or you’re not.  Chemistry could vary things somewhat. But not a rate increase or decrease.


I am comfortable with the gifts I request, and that really isn’t related to what any other girl does. But I can’t help but think that  since my ads can’t include  a detailed summary of  all that my sessions do include,  guys reading my ads are assuming by comparison that I must NOT do many of the things I really do   do. Am I missing out of seeing many of the guys who  are looking for someone who offers  a truly complete gfe because  its assumed that  my rate would be higher if my gfe were really that complete?  [No I’m not thinking I should raise my rate. But are guys unconsciously assuming that when they see a rate lower than 300?]


TB062514 reads

I agree with alot of your logic about comofort level verses pricing.  I tend to look for providers that are around your donation / rate, then I look at reviews, pictures etc. to finalize my decision to see a provider that I have never seen before.

azhacker1873 reads

and directly related to some aspects of my conversation with Mya. Do I agree with her point of view entirely....NO. However, she has some very well thought out arguements that are worthy of consideration. I'll try to illustrate....

two "newbies" enter the "hobby". John doe goes to Phoenix411 and books 5 sessions at an average cost of $300 (just because its a nice round number). He has 5 "quality" sessions....

Joe Doe goes to eros and books five sessions at an average of $300 also. He has one superduper fivestar session and one cash and dash rip off. The other three fall in between with a $300 HJ (oh well fullservice is an extra $500) a I dont do ABC&D slam bam and go and a good session (on a par with mine with Danielle for example).

Over all John got a much better initiation then Joe did and got more for his money. Glens site IS the only one I know of with as close to a 100% sure thing gaurantee as you can get. Do I think Danielle should have been booted...personally no. But I 100% completely agree with both Glenn & Mya that that "gold plated" reputation is worth protecting.

Are all the 411 gals "better" then everyone else....NO. Like everything else you have some measure of bellshaped curve. The top 20 gals on 411 are probably the top 20 in the valley. The bottom 20 are probably better then at least 60% of the non 411 gals. Are there great values elsewhere SURE there are.

The coincidence of the # of "411" posts (anebelle) etc meshed nicely with Mya's arguement that a lot of "lurkers" (many with little experience) are influenced by posts like mine and get steered in potentially dangerous directions. I do think thats a very valid point.

Anytime your going to contribute in the manner I tend to there is an obligation ot explore and evaluate the "opposing" point of view. When you find merit in that viewpoint you can either incorporate it and modify your own thoughts or be a mindless drone.

My post here takes nothing away from other worthy possibilities it simply highlights two very real facts...

1) Glenns site is the only one here (and maybe in the country) with a real proactive quality control concept.

2) Beyond the legal risks the hobby is fraught with both outright fraud and tremendous variations in the quality of service.

This post simply is ment to help those starting out maximize both safety and enjoyment....nothing more.

xoxox1456 reads

CP I tend to agree with you.  Even though I have only seen 2 providers (one locally and one who was visiting), I have to admit that I was very satisfied with what I got for my buck (and neither was $400.00).  And I am not refering to the actual "deed".  Both were very fun people and I could easily imagine these 2 lovely young women being just as friendly and outgoing in their personal lives as they were being with me.  I feel that both a provider and the hobbyist can tell within the first few minutes or so if they are going to be comfortable with one another; and being comfortable with each other goes a loooooooong way towards feeling at ease and taking the edge off.  I don`t necessarily agree that the higher the price the better the provider (or service).  Just because one pays more for something is no guarantee to having a memorable or enjoyable time.  To me a friendly and out going attitude is more important than looks, blond hair, or 38DD`s.      

Here recently I have been making discreet inquires with local providers to come and visit with them.  However it can be difficult when you don`t have a 9-to-5 job with a company that isn`t listed.  I have been turned away by more than 1 provider because my company doesn`t have any locally listed information.  And I totally understand.  As was hinted at in the original post; safety is key.  Everyone who posts on these boards (both providers & hobbyist alike) know the dire consequences of what an "accidental" run in with LE would be.  It would sure spoil my day.  I want to be damn sure that the next provider that I want to spend time with has documented reviews somewhere reputable.  And I would expect the same of her.  

The only other point that I would ad to "reviewing some of the basics" would be to stay away for CL (and its counterparts).  CL has been getting way too much negative nationwide exposure as of late; and it is only a matter of time before LE starts a major sting operation in the valley so that it can be paraded on the news at 6:00 with Mark Curtis and Lin Sue Cooney.  They will have to act if someone brings the problem to their attention.

OK that's all for now and GO METS!!!!!!!


  -xoxox-

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