thats exactly what we're paid to do.
if i were someone's wife, i wouldnt want the person, especially the ESCORT, that was with my partner to offer me marital advice or console me. .. i dont care how nice and sweet you are, you are the ENEMY and you are an ESCORT. Personally, i have a high opinion of most escorts but i dont think that many hobbyist's wives do.
rubbing salt in the wound plus giving her a reason to subpoena you.
if you deny it, theres no reason to subpoena you.
i once had a girlfriend text messaging me LIKE 37 TIMESe to leave her boyfriend alone, that he didnt like me, that he never liked me and that he told her my ass smelled like fried chicken.
i wanted sooo bad to SHUT HER UP and tell her that her boyfriend paid my fried chicken smelling ass.. twice.
but i just ignored her and emailed him to SHUT HER UP and he did.
i hated these calls/emails. i used to try to say i had a computer repair biz ...
but 4am calls that were 30 min long ?? jeez
now, as soon as i hear a woman's voice on my biz lines, i say wrong # and transfer the call to my assistant, Mr Click. ...emails are ignored.
i dont want nor need any calls being booked by a woman and providers can email me for references or identify themselves on the phone really fast.
but ciara, thats brilliant. thanks for sharing..
victoria, i've seen many of your posts in the past and i know you are a sweet, sincere person who works hard and often helps others... i've always been grateful to you for representing our industry with intelligence, compassion, and uncompromisable ethics because your posts help change the negative stereotypes placed upon us, educate us, and inspire us to strive for the same excellent standard of service as you.
but just like any other job, the "right" thing to do is to give your loyalty to the person that pays for it....
since you accepted their money, if that person is lying then there is no question that the HONEST thing to do is back them up and LIE LIKE A RUG TOO.
if that creates a moral conflict for you, you will eventually hate yourself unless you either reconsider your morals or reconsider your job. .
I was on the national boards and saw a post from a wife of ten yrs. with 2 children that had discovered her husband was a hobbiest, let's just say she was heartbroken and the relationship looked to be over it is a very interesting tread to read for all of us......Now over the past 4 yrs I too have recieved calls from wives and SO and was curious as to how others have handled these calls and what you guys expect us to say when YOU have not cleared your past history on your computer or have left our info on your phone or e-mails, as a provider my first gut reaction is to protect my client so I deny and try to cover for him .....BUT these women are no fools and will have e-mails and other info to back up their stories it is wierd when a wife reads to you your letters so now what do you do? LIE ? Or show her repect and try to explain why she should not jump off a cliff and that this hobby is really not a refection on her.....I have been lucky most of the ladies choose to listen and I felt I was able to do damage control after spending time listening and showing compassion and giving my humle advice such as " do not tell your family or friends because if you work through this you will have damaged him in their eyes" I ask them if he is a good man and a good husband a good father if so then they should not be in such a hurry to let this be a dealbreaker. Funny thing is on several of these calls I did not even remeber who he was some DR. a man that owned hotels just men that had come and gone through my door. My advice was to not to attack him but to let him know they were hurt, a man reponses more to tears then anger.I encouraged them to hang in there but that is because I felt these women had something worth fighting for the calls all ended with a thank you and I hope they have all moved forward and found happiness....BUT men please do not put me in this position it is very uncomfortable ...if you are going to hobby please take the time to be discret none of of us wants to hurt anyone....Victoria
If I get a call from an SO (I believe it has happened 3 or so times now) DENY DENY DENY. Me:"I have no idea what you are talking about, I believe you may have the wrong phone number- I am a custom painter"
The custom painter part is true- then I get them saying things like- "Well, My Husband/Boyfriend called you"
Me:"Sorry Maam since this is a public number, I have 10-50 phone calls a day. I cannot remember who called, or why they were calling me specifically. Thanks for calling and have a nice day."
Damage control is not your job. Talking to an SO is not your job. Your job is to keep your mouth shut- thats what you're paid for.
Just curious what if she is a pycho and has your web-site info and knows all your info including that "painter number" and decides to make trouble and can back it up with e-mails and ect... is it not better to calm her down or to take the risk of her going to LE? or worse have you later sent a supena by her lawyer as I have heard of this happening.....ps it not very nice to tell someone to shut-up you have the right to your opinions as I do...
-- Modified on 8/16/2007 9:02:21 AM
-- Modified on 8/16/2007 10:31:17 AM
-- Modified on 8/16/2007 10:36:06 AM
Calm, businesslike, brief and to the point. Politely end the call. It's over.
Someone who has not done business and will not do with you has "no business" calling you! Moreover, you owe them nothing. End of story.
You are not being rude or not nice by politely refusing to engage in conversation with them.
If that doesn't feel right to you, then you might ask yourself do you feel that your client is doing something wrong by doing business with YOU? Do you feel you are doing something wrong by doing business with HIM?
Surely, you do not have a guilty conscience about this, right? Also, while I have not have the pleasure of your company, your reputation as a top-notch PROFESSIONAL is clear; you have earned it. Part of that professionalism is privacy, discretion, and confidentiality, which undoubtably you maintain.
You are obviously empathetic to other people's needs and feelings. That is a quality that helps make you a top provider. My thought is thereis a lot of sorrow in this world. A lot of people need or want something they don't have. A caller like this is looking to you to PROVIDE that to them. Since that is not the type of PROVIDER you are, they have simply need to look elsewhere and not waste your time.
Finally, the more you speak to someone like this, the more they will FOCUS ON YOU. Being professional but getting off the phone fast. is a protection for YOU as well as your client and reputation.
Tina your the best!
Guys, dont forget to clean out your deleted messages folder, I didnt and now Im seperated!
Its a horrible feeling to get caught.
Better of calling, no emails or texts.
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=220416&boardID=12&page=
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=220595&boardID=12&page=
This is a heavy topic, on which I hope our best writers and thinkers (esp. Sarah, the Sheika, and WebTerrorist) will chime in.
I would tend to agree with Tina's approach for a provider, but for guys, I think that lack of discretion is often a reflection of a desire to get caught. Guys who are in relationships they don't like can often be afraid to just make a clean break of it (and bite the emotional and financial bullets.)
They end up using providers/girlfriends/whatever in place of courage. They're recklessly careless with the information about their hobbying and/or affairs, and guess who ends up sharing the heat when the spouse finds out?
There are a lot of resources for providers about how to operate safely and discretely. Perhaps there should be more out there about basic steps to take if you truly want to remain with your partner but participate in the hobby. I'm thinking, for instance, about the kind of security advice companies get all the time, regarding use of passwords, avoiding spyware, etc.
One fellow I know of regularly left his cell phone sitting where his wife could listen to voicemails and look at call/text histories. She eventually did so. His spouse is now harrassing the provider he was seeing and even some of her colleagues. Because we all know that cell phones can be locked with a password, were his actions mere carelessness, or did they reflect a deeper desire to get caught?
Thank you for your post, and link to this subject matter, I think it is a very insightful thread....and so are you personal views.....
Victoria, you take a very sensible approach to this very complex and difficult issue. You won't always be able to bluff your way through it, especially if the hobbyist has left enough evidence. I think it is true that some men subconciously leave a trail because they want to be caught. It can be a need to create a crisis in a marriage that is going nowhere fast. The "outing" can cause the couple to get back together, usually after counseling, or go their separate ways. Either way it gets the dull marriage off the dime.
And you ladies may bear the brunt and wrath of some pretty POed wives, but you accept a lot of risks to practice this trade, and this is just one of them. Do yourselves a favor and be prepared for that nasty confrontation. If you're lucky you will never have it happen. But as with all your risks, the longer you stay, the more active you are, the odds increase. just my humble opinion
Wow, I must be a lucky lady, as I have been in the business many years and have not received any calls like that.
I agree, with the lovely Tina Pink, we are getting paid to keep our mouths shut!
WWK
I agree, Kelly. Although I think it's sweet that Victoria is so concerned and she means well, I don't think it's our place to console a wife of someone we've had a date with, nor do I think we should admit to the appointment. There are other ways to handle the situation. Luckily, I have other work so I can say that he might have contacted me for such work. That is why I try really hard not to have intimate conversations over the telephone or by email with clients who have wives.
For instance, I had a woman email me about a message I sent back to her husband. I told her in the responding email that I am currently scolding my daughter for going on Internet porn sites. She played a horrific joke and I apologize for any inconvenience it caused her. The lady wrote back and said, "I'm so sorry to bother you. That makes me feel so much better." So . . . the guy called me and said, "Whoa! Thank you so much. That was great!"
Hugs,
Ciara
-- Modified on 8/16/2007 1:20:33 PM
thats exactly what we're paid to do.
if i were someone's wife, i wouldnt want the person, especially the ESCORT, that was with my partner to offer me marital advice or console me. .. i dont care how nice and sweet you are, you are the ENEMY and you are an ESCORT. Personally, i have a high opinion of most escorts but i dont think that many hobbyist's wives do.
rubbing salt in the wound plus giving her a reason to subpoena you.
if you deny it, theres no reason to subpoena you.
i once had a girlfriend text messaging me LIKE 37 TIMESe to leave her boyfriend alone, that he didnt like me, that he never liked me and that he told her my ass smelled like fried chicken.
i wanted sooo bad to SHUT HER UP and tell her that her boyfriend paid my fried chicken smelling ass.. twice.
but i just ignored her and emailed him to SHUT HER UP and he did.
i hated these calls/emails. i used to try to say i had a computer repair biz ...
but 4am calls that were 30 min long ?? jeez
now, as soon as i hear a woman's voice on my biz lines, i say wrong # and transfer the call to my assistant, Mr Click. ...emails are ignored.
i dont want nor need any calls being booked by a woman and providers can email me for references or identify themselves on the phone really fast.
but ciara, thats brilliant. thanks for sharing..
victoria, i've seen many of your posts in the past and i know you are a sweet, sincere person who works hard and often helps others... i've always been grateful to you for representing our industry with intelligence, compassion, and uncompromisable ethics because your posts help change the negative stereotypes placed upon us, educate us, and inspire us to strive for the same excellent standard of service as you.
but just like any other job, the "right" thing to do is to give your loyalty to the person that pays for it....
since you accepted their money, if that person is lying then there is no question that the HONEST thing to do is back them up and LIE LIKE A RUG TOO.
if that creates a moral conflict for you, you will eventually hate yourself unless you either reconsider your morals or reconsider your job. .
Tough subject but one that is dealt with daily from all three parties involved (hobbyist, provider, SO/Wife).
I saw in the thread someone mention that a hobbyist may unknowingly leave a trail behind because of a hidden desire to leave a commitment. It is also true that when the SO/Wife calls she is looking for the equal validation to end the relationship. Communication of desires to leave a relationship are seldom talked about in today's marriages... thus we have divorce.
What's the part of the provider in this mess? Here is where you step into land mine territory. Your options are:
1. Deny
2. Confirm and Console
3. Confirm the call was made but you don't know him.
4. Say you've got the wrong number
5. Look at the caller ID and wait for a VM.
6. or start with questions back to determine how much info she has before chosing from above.
There is no clear answer. Each person involved will handle it differently. What does change at the time of the phone call is... now there is suspicion on the part of an SO/Wife and sooner or later the truth will come out. If I were a married man (and I'm not), I would appreciate hearing from my ATF that she got a VM from the SO/Wife and she didn't act on it. That's my two cents from BCD.
-- Modified on 8/16/2007 12:47:41 PM
end of story!
I've yet to get any calls either, I did get an email telling me to leave her boyfriend alone...(I wanted to say he's the one that emailed me) but I let it alone....never heard back!
I know if the tables were turned around and it was me, I wouldn't even want to comfort the provider...why? nothing really gets accomplished anyway!
I KNOW NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Vic ...posted this on the LA board and will post it here too ... hope it helps.
I have to admit that when I read this I laughed! Not a "guffaw, that's so funny" laugh but a "woof, I hope that never happens to me" laugh.
I'm kinda lucky because I don't have a wife to read my emails or check my phone. (I say kinda because whether I want to admit it or not there are times when it would be great to come home to somebody ... but I digress).
All of that said, I work in an internet company so there are a few rules I follow that, if followed, can keep this from happening.
1. Set your security settings on your computer so it goes to "locked" after five minutes of inactivity and forces a password change every two months. (No matter how hard you try you may leave your computer on when you leave and there is nothing more interesting when someone is walking by than your "you've got mail" tone).
2. Always maintain a completely seperate email account (uh, they're free, right?) for your hobby related messages.
3. Set the History setting in your Internet Options (on IE) to forget everywhere you've been. You can tag a site you want to return to as a Favorite.
4. Turn off the "auto-complete" setting in the search engines (also in Internet Options). That will keep "Sexy Gal" from popping up when you're doing a presentation on screen for 200 people and someone asks you to search "sedimentary rock."
5. If you call a provider and leave a message, make sure to tell her when and how to call you back. I have never had a situation where a provider didn't respect this request.
6. Delete (from Inbox, Sent Mail, and Trash) all provider related correspondence. (Yes, Inbox, sent mail, and trash). And if you text, clear all text every night.
7. Never have the same password for hobby sites (such as TER) as you do for your computer.
8. If you use a cell phone a lot for the hobby get a seperate phone (for business use) and only use that phone. Make sure it is on a different network than your personal phone. (BTW, this is also very handy for work and the total cost of a basic phone is so low these days that whether I was in the hobby or not I would always carry a seperate cell for work.)
9). Get a seperate credit card (for work). Make sure it has a cash advance feature so you can withdraw a couple of hundred bucks when you need it without having that show up on your ATM records.
10). Never hobby when you're drunk ... Because all of the above precautions can't protect you from yourself ...
Hope that helps ... especially the newbies. Thanks Vic for the thoughtful post. I can't imagine what it's like to get those calls, but it can't be any fun ...
Have a great weekend.
...wood.
Wood thanks for sharing if I learned anything today it is that from now on I KNOW Nothing, the girls are right and I am wrong I guess I have always tried to fix things and in this BIZ it is better to not get involved so maybe this post might help to keep men more on their toes and for me to follow the advice of the wiser providers.......
thanks ciara you have always been there ......
... these wonderful providers and show discretion for them as they do for us. Can you imagine how it would be if they did not???? You only have to look at what has happened to some of the peole who have been stung from using CL and less discrete providers...
Those of us who are close to the business often fail to perceive the incredible intensity of the very powerful negative emotions our activities can invoke.
In the general population there is a tremendous amount of animosity toward providers. This animosity is often expressed in rage, jealousy and hate.
There are many complex social/cultural dynamics that contribute to this state of affairs. The two most obvious and paramount are the fact that most hobbyist are married and that prostitution is illegal—though enforcement of the laws concerning involvement in the sex trade are--for the most part—haphazardly enforced.
Unfortunately, the illegal and clandestine nature of “renting an escort” attracts far too many immature, insecure individuals who tend to use the hobby as an antidote for a screwed up family life, or a way to get revenge on a wayward spouse, or to bolster their own sorry psychological state and need to feel empowered.
It goes without saying that a client who “rents a lady” with this type of improper intent is not using an escort service as it was meant to be used. Simply put, the client is using an escort service for the wrong reasons. He is maladjusted and he has a very juvenile and unhealthy out-look about sex and relationships…
For safety’s sake, every lady should put their well-honed, intuitive knowledge of human nature to work and ascertain the motive of your clients. In one way or another, ask the question, “Why do you want to see me” and then wait for a satisfactory and appropriate answer before you make an appointment...
And, it has been the Sheika’s experience that laws against harassment pertain equally to everyone—escorts included. A letter from your attorney can be a very good thing.
LOVE AND PEACE,
Sheika Fatima
[email protected]