In the course of doing groundwork for "part one" I limited my baseline at what I perceived to be the "bottom rung". Obviously that created a low break point...one of the "bubble gals" {Jayla}has interestingly gotten multiple reviews over the last week. She was my original choice for part one but logistics were bad. I did talk to her on multiple occasions (very sweet on phone) and she actually offered to rearrange things to meet me. I had other potential issues and didnt want her to got to the trouble and have me get hung up.

I ended up seeing Daisy and then Ashlee (saw Ashlee again today as well). I was intriqued about her comments regarding alot of the Vegas gals coming down here since things in Vegas are slow. It seems like we are at a point where the PHX market is so strong we're creating a draw...hopefully this will continue to bring better value here as the local market continues with its "fat dumb and happy" mindset.

Now this gal is not going to match the top end here, but how many are really worth double the price?

Now obviously since I saw Ashlee I answered the question for myself. I will always pay more to get "more"....but compare my total "GFE" "MSOG" totally unrushed session with some of the other reviews at the rate {and this from an agency gal!)

I get the feeling to many of us are letting the bar slip way down. "top shelf" pricing damm well better equate to "top shelf" service (and yes there are plenty of "top shelf 18 yr old single malts" here in town...but if you dont demand it you wont get it....

Obviously prices are coming down... lots of good names available @ the $$$ level vs $$$$ a short time ago.  

OK

But I did see Jayla and for the $$$ she is a good value and a sweet young girl. She is not a cheap import and works hard to make your time together enjoyable. Some people don't connect with eash other so someones date may not be the the same as yours. So just enjoy yourself out there and be happy they well see you when you know what they look like and they don't know what they are going to see at the door. Just be happy they don't slam it on you when they open it.

is a great value and points out just how far out of whack things in PHX got. Her full "rack" price is 50% of the high end "rack rate" here in PHX. Simply read some of the other "high end" reviews...people paying $400 for a semi rushed session and 1 pop. Boy I'd be pissed....your not entitled to anything beyond your allotted time (at any price) but your certainly entitled to full time and attention for that period. Anything beyond that is gravy and should be recognized as such....

But to me Kayla is a great value pick, the "cheap import" comment is tongue in cheek. After all thats what the "big 3" called Datsun and Honda....it's what Nissan, Honda and Totota called Hyundai.

The bottom line in business is there is always someone else willing to do a better job for a fair price to earn your business. "Value added" will always command a premium....but a commodity is just that, the moment you think you dont need to go the extra mile you just went from a "specialty product" to a commodity...

the best value in the valley was Sky Silverman at $300. Many quality providers had a standard rate for regulars of $200 (including many still active). Prices rise and fall and I have no issue with "rate creep". But a 50% to 100% increase over a couple of years is awfully high. Now the real underlying issue is TLC. Before Taylor the agencies were ripoffs (and Taylor deserves credit and kudo's). So the agencies had the super high end "trophy fuck" hardbodies (with a few notable exceptions) at ridiculous pricing often 600-750 out the door) and the indies where the tru value. Misty (and Mya) changed that...now you had both at a reasonablr premium. As gals went indie they used the agency rate as a benchmark and rates equalized with the indies climbing to the "new indie" rate and the agencies recognizing the value of strong client lists.

So now we have a "flop" where 8 of the 10 best providers in the valley all work for agencies (IMO) and the "value" {which was always much higher for indies} has swung to agencies and now "imports". There have been a dozen great imports at $250 or less in just the last 60 days. Now there have also been many more rip offs and stinkers. Very little good 411 reaches this board on travelers (except for the wonderful gals mama rose brings us){and now AZM as well}. Partly logistics (here and gone) partly back channel (why share?)...

I'm simply looking at the "new reality" I saw 6 gals in the last 2 weeks (my ATF + Daisy and 4 of Jacks). Two years ago I'd have seen 8 (2 ATF x 2 + 4 new indies)...now I could also see ATF + 6 Jaylas...

Hopefully some new gals will surface (3 i'm tracking could well be the next superstars)....till then I'm hoping for more imports...then again maybe i'll just go see Ashlee again tomorrow.

AZ hacker sounds like you are mad because she could not offer you what you want. If the girl does not offer GFE then she can not be down sided for that. I give her credit for getting paid for whar she does and if she is able to get more for the dollar than good for her. DON'T  HATE so much see who you want to see, if the arizona girls were smart they would go to Vegas once and a while and try to keep up with the prices and whats going on. This is how they make a living let them do how they wish to and don't try and control money, that's not the issue it how professional they are and how good at what they do!

or can you not read. I think Jayla is absolutely great bang for the buck...and I thought I said that pretty clearly. I didnt down side her for anything...hell I havent seen her yet. If you read both this post and the original "research" post I hope my thoughts are pretty clear. Since this is an alias I'd guess this is the typical "twist shit around" garbage a certain subset here likes to play at.

This whole thread is/was about VALUE...something this gal is giving alot of for a reasonable price.   Hopefully this thread brought her some additional visibility and results in a bit more business for her. In the end the markets going to set the rates....i'm just nudging it along a bit.

Now if you were a hobbiest you'd be interested in more bang for your buck...since your twisting this around I'm guessing your either a kiss ass white knight or a gal feeling threatened.

...but I need to take exception to the idea that not providing GFE shouldn't result in a lower performance rating.  I may be wrong here, but in my mind a CBJ/no kissing encounter most likely will/should be rated significantly lower than a true GFE.  Is that a bad thing?  I don't think so and neither should you.  As hacker and I were discussing in an ealier thread, ratings mean something and their consistancy is vital.

For $$$$ the show better be spectacular.Why would anyone want pay premium prices for a one pop 35 minute hay ride? That is absurd. In many other cities providers offer half hour rates for that scenerio.

...and turned it into a job.

Commanche had asked me to help explain relative value, so I put in my .02 for him (and for her) in an earlier thread. I was just trying to figure out your anger, or, in your terms, Bullshit behind my recent post when I noticed this thread.

Are you having any fun yet?

Dude, you're treating the hobby like it's some kind of commodities market and your working the margins. It can't possibly be satisfying if one of either you or your date must go away feeling rooked.

If a gal charges too much, why not just move on?

It looks, by casual observation to be sure, that you have a real anti-WhiteKnight zeal going: Either we see your point, or we're "One of Them". Consider that it's not the position someone takes that makes them a pain in the ass, it's the extremism.

Pay what you must - or don't. Your posts on this subject are abusive even to the ladies your trying to complement.


This message modified to add that I'm going to be very impressed by the wit of your reply.

-- Modified on 8/25/2006 4:57:36 PM

bravo bchilson, I loved your post....

I could not agree with you more here.  What is it with hobbyists who feel the need to berate good providers on the boards about their rate structure.  If you don't want to pay, then don't call.  Each provider experience is different for each hobbyist.  Why bad mouth someone you don't know, just because their rate is higher than you are willing to pay.  This is what a free market economy is all about, supply and demand.  If the girl isn't worth the money, she wouldn't have the demand.

to answer your "question".

If you feel the need to "defend" someone who charges $550/hr {or more} or attack someone who questions the value in paying that much for a basic service so be it.

Why you assume anger or anything else is beyond me. I simply stated an opinion...which I stand by. If you (or anyone else) really feels they need to spend $5000/day for company I think you need to address deeper issues with professional help...again just MY opinion.

To me "VV"'s picture (cute as it is) is in the dictionary under golden pussy syndrome...nothing more nothing less.

it's pretty obvious from your writing that your perspective is completely different then mine. Your opening is very verbose (longer then most reviews in fact) and makes it clear just how important and special you feel with this gal. Obviously being viewed with her in public and your perception of how others react is important to you.

Your "private" review reads more like a dimestore romance novel love scene. You have an awful lot happening in your mind beyond the reality of getting your rocks off.

I'll give you a contrast...last summer I spent an evening with an ATF...I'd already sessioned with her twice and had a 3rd session with another gal (which she knew of). We spent an hour or so in private talking and cuddling (naked)...then snuck out to the pool (was a private party function at a rented "villa"...we swum in the pool alone "well mostly just twirled around with her wrapped around me" for an hour or so then went back to bed and talked some more...we traded massages and she was concerned about some moles on my back (actually called the following week to make sure I'd made an appointment to have them checked)...then snuggled in and fell asleep togeather. We woke up that morning talked kissed and cuddled and then hit starbucks on the way back to her place where I dropped her off. All in all i'd say 12 hours of very intimate time....but very seperate from the roughly 5 hours of actual sex the previous late afternoon/evening.

All simply two people who liked each other spending some time togeather. you cant/dont need to fake that. If the connection is actually real then stuff happens well beyond paying for sex...the person involved knows that regardless of what else intervenes I'm a phone call away if needed.

My personal feeling is your confusing sex (which you paid for) and true intimacy. It's an easy trap to fall into. Just remember that its a business, nothing more nothing less. you have no standing beyond that as a "client". Way to many guys make this more than it is....including you.

All the Best

-- Modified on 8/26/2006 5:49:59 PM

If you try to pound everyone into your mold, you're probably missing something important in life.

You read my review. Fine. It's long, it's excessively detailed and, yes, it does read like a dime store novel. If you think that it suggests something like starry eyed ignorance over the gal, you've obviously not read my other reviews as well, LOL. My post of Victoria is not my longest.

You seem to pigeon hole folks to concur with your conceptions. Why did I write such a long, romantic story? - I like to write. No Freudian interpretation required. Of my nine posts, I've had PMs from guys, regarding four of them, thanking me for expressing their experience beyond their skills in telling. I did have one other person tell me I write too much, and I agreed with him readily.

Maybe you should ask why you feel the need to explain what others think, and why.

Yes - I enjoy the experience as much, if not sometimes more than the sex. Just because I watch and enjoy a theatrical play, it doesn't mean I THINK IT"S REAL. That makes you and I different. Not better. Not worse. Different. What I pay for, and how much, is for my satisfaction, not yours. Our needs/wants are obviously based on differing models.

I see that. Can you? I am no threat to your standards of good or bad, so there is no need to belittle, attack or define me. The truth is that YOU are the one making things "more than it is". It's a common problem for people who want to impose themselves on others, and who have the gift to write well. Some think that being the most articulate means being the most correct.

You have a lot of opinions about me, what I think, why I think it, and how that's wrong. The real difference between us is that I consider our opinions and make my judgement, you consider your opinions as the judgement. Your very skilled with posting, and manipulating, but I find your commentaries dull and narrow.


Now - we've successfully insulted each other. You may continue going about judging others as you please. As I'd said, I was asked to make a comment regarding MY assessment of VVH: I found her worthwhile for my purpose. You may not. Other posters may have their opinions even different than ours.

See?
Different.

I completely agree.  Who is anyone to tell a lady what she is worth?  I do different rates for everyone.  The initial visit is whats on my site and after that we go from there.