Many of us long time hobbiest remember when Maricopa County was truly the wild..wild..west. We can remmeber when there were massage parlors (brothels) all over  the unincorperated areas of Maricpoa county. These areas were everywhere. Scottsdale, Tempe, West Phoenix, North Phoenix adn AJ were the favorites. Van Buren was also loaded with hundreds of beautiful women. Bacheloer Beat was over 50 pages and ran ads for independants who were not rip-offs.

Then the worst thing that ever happenes to our hobby occured. Tom Collins got elected County Attorney. He brought his Morman ethics and started a campaign to close everything down. It started with TV 'news' reports of prostitution happening in these 24 hour massage parlors. Oh my what a shock! Does this sound familiar? Just like what is pappening now!

Then the media concentrated on Van Buren. Can you believe the almost naked women were taking money for sex?

OK, lastly were the TV news crews following the police as indy's were marched out of their own houses in handcuffs.

Again I ask, does this all sound familiar? Try to get a massage in Scottsdale? That is only step one.

What can we do? Let your elected officials know you do not want your tax dollars wasted on victimless crimes. Tell them loudly that there are murderers and rapists out there. Violant crimes are up in Arizona and you are chasing people making love? No vote for you. No donations for you!

Next thing you need to do is vote Libertarian. They are the only party that supports our hobby.

Remember the saying" those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" We will have no place to practice our hobby if this continues!!

Yes be very afraid. It isn't only massage parlors anymore. I am way out in the east valley and took someone yesterday that used someone that is well known as a refference. He had phone numbers and becase I didn't take the time to check on him because I needed the appointment I got to spend some time in the pokey. Yes that is what I said. I would advise that the ladies outb there be extra careful in checking your refferences. I am not sure if this was a set-up or if they just got lucky. From now on I will be doing all my screening before I see someone I do not know. Also depending upon how this all goes I might have to leave the business for a while. I don't have a choice so I will be going ahead with my original plan for this week to play in town. I will not be taking anyone without verifiable refferences. I will not be in town till Wednesday now since I have to make new arrangements but I will be there.

i guess it is at times like these that having a loyal client base is nice to fall back on. being an honest provider is worth it's weight in gold.

sorry to hear that donna.If you or any ladies need a refrence varification please call me for it is faster then email.We all need to be safe......
xoxo
jordan kay

Donna I am so sorry that happened to you.  These people who do this have no honor and no sense of right and wrong.  

Thank you for letting us know.  Unlike them you have honor.

The bottom line is that we have to be as aggressive and outspoken as the maniacal 'family values' people who FORCE their religious and personal beliefs on everyone. They have always worked hard to get control of the media and government and use them to control our lives.

I personally think that they just can't handle living with temptations and haven't the faith to resist them so they need to get rid of them to make themselves feel good. Look what happens to men when their normal, natural sexual urges and needs aren't fulfilled... we get priests molesting children. Men who have deovoted their lives to God and been sworn to celibacy have had to resort to secretly relieving their pent up sexual frustrations on children! To openly have consensual sexual relations with a women would be a sin and it's much easier to intimidate a child into being silent.

You're right coyotefan, "We will have no place to practice our hobby if this continues!! " I think that most of us are waiting for somebody else to do it but if we don't get off our butts and do something now it will be too late. The first thing that we need is organization. The 'other side' has it and we all know that it's big and powerful. We can't do anything if we aren't all willing to come together as a whole. The bigger the 'voice' the greater the power. I've been so glad to see the guys getting together for drinks and I really think that we ladies need to 'bond' more. (It would be great for 'protection too.)

Until we all get together on this we'll all be at 'their' mercy!

You have a strong voice in the community.  Guys and girls both trust you.  I will help but I do not have the experience or the knowledge.  We need a leader that is trusted.  I think we should have an election among us to elect a leader and then decide on how to stop the KK now and how to change our politicians mind in the future.  Be aware that if we don't stand now we will end up like San Diego.  Who will stand?

I'm so sorry to hear about your ordeal Donna. They're out to get anyone and everyone that they can right now and don't need much reason to take someone down. They know times are tight right now so they're taking full advantage of it. They hope that the girls will be desperate enough to get sloppy and say or do more than they normally would because they need the money. Don't let them win!

Do you ever go to Tucson? I have a gentlemen looking for someone out there and I wondered if you travel. Email me at [email protected] if you'd like to know more ;o)

No, I just have a big mouth! LOL

Thank you Rick, I really am glad that people trust me and I love this business and want to see us all be free to enjoy ourselves and earn a living in the ways that we choose. I don't have experience or knowledge either but I'm sure that there are plenty among us who know what needs to be done and how to go about it. That's why we need to come together first and see where our strengths are. I'll be happy to do whatever I can.

Oh my God! I am so sorry that you are going through this. Damn!
I cannot believe how stupid the law is myself. We are not hurting anyone. We just want to have fun and the same goes with some men. We all just want to have a good time. Someone always has to try to take the fun away.
Babygirl, be very careful and always check your references. It is not worth it. Even when times are tough. It goes to show that if you don't, it can be tougher! Love ya and I hope things will work out for you.

Sky

Come on kids...."all we want to do is have some fun".  Charging $$ for sex is prositution. We kid ourselves by calling ourself hobbyists and providers.....but let's face it.....it is prostitution and it is illegal. If this was all about having fun, then no money would trade hands. This is a business transaction and that is all it is. Actually it is the oldest business known to mankind. It just happens to be an illegal one now.  There are risks associated with this business (disease, LE). I am surprised at the shock over Donna's unfortunate situation. Quite frankly, I am surprised that it doesn't happen more often. If you play, you may have to pay.  Be careful.

I think the conditions of our society are deplorable. When our city government and state government can tell the media that there just isn't enough money or man power for them to fix the problems with CPS, the homeless situations, the drug trade here in our cities and other crimes that have innocent victims. Yet they pour thousands of dollars and even are given "grants" for their so called vice crime task forces. When the news media is full of depressing images of dirty cages that once housed abused and neglected childeren, mothers who trade their pre pubescent daughters for drugs and priests that molest innocent childeren. Their should be a public outcry for justice. Yet there is none. But there are groups of Moral upright members of the community banding together to picket a Castle boutique or Fascinations adult store. They are supporting community task forces against massage establishments, modeling studios and other adult businesses. Where is the logic here.  There is none. They are trying to protect adults who's decisions are made on their own. Why aren't they protecting the innocents. You don't see any stories about Massage Parlors hiring under age girls, or kids being served at adult book stores or topless bars. Because these businesses make sure that they are for consenting adults only. They say they are doing these things to protect the innocent childeren of the community, but in essence they are abandoning them for the easy media frenzy of a salacious sexual oriented buissnes bust. Takes a lot more time and energy to investigate an abuser, drug lord or molester then it does to arrest an escort, massage provider or social club owner. I for one find it disgusting that sex is viewed as a crime and the other things mentioned are swept under the rug due to lack of money and man power. Their morals need to be re evaluated as well as their dispersment of funds.
Disheartend and disgusted with the whole mess
~M~

Donna,
I am so sorry to hear that happend to you. If I can help you in any way just let me know.
Keep a stiff upper lip kid, don't let them break you.
Hugs and Kisses,
Malissa xoxoxo

And our needs and rights are all going to be swept under the rug with everything else they find distasteful if we don't find a way to organize ourselves and speak up.

I also Dropped you an Email Donna, WE ALL LOVE YOU DONNA!!!!

Sorry to hear about that, Donna.  I am especially shocked about the fact that you are out in Mesa - where all the MPs appear to have migrated.  All they need is an irrational fear.  Donna, are you sure that you're not harboring weapons of mass destruction?

It does happen so dont be surprised.Yes it is unfortunate for i to got busted 2 and a half years ago and could not beat the case.It was the pigs word against mine and yes he lied.I had to go to tent city for 8 days.They asked me to be an informant and help them bust massage parlors and i told them to kiss my a@@.Never thought i would get busted and boy was it awful,but i knew it was illegal so i knew i was taking a chance.In closing let me just say that they will try to scare you like they tried on me but remember never be there puppet and darnit check your refrences.also donna you are going to need an attorney.i have a good name for you so call me.
take care
       jordan kay

Your right! It is illegal. Who ever mentioned selling sex? I didnt! How do you know if I do that or not? Hmmmmmm. I am a companion my dear. But it is also my opinion that.....I should be able to do what I want with my body. I own it. You do not or neither does the law. I did not make the laws and I do not agree with them but I also know that they will not change because I dont like them.
  And if it wasnt fun for me then I would not be involved in this type of business. And if it was not for $$ then I would not either simply because I can go out and get paid for it or find myself a boring job. Nah, I choose this one cause this one is more fun!

I agree with sky, who mentioned sex????
Besides this country was founded on religious beliefs that are far outdated.  How hypocritical this religion is, need we say more.
Ladies, your best defense is to follow your instinct.
Phoenix must be having an election soon.

Hello all,
I am doing fine and thank you all for your nice e-mails and support. I am in town this week as planned and do not intend to let this get me down. I will be here all week and available any time. I will be running a rate of $200 and this will be my in town rate from now on for my new friends as well as my old friends. Due to my situation I am screening and anyone who would like to see me that has not will need to send me an e-mail with my screening info the day before seeing me. I will not be seeing any new friends at my home. I will be as available and accomodating as possible and hope to see you all soon.

Give me a break.  How do I know what you do????  Read your reviews on TER. It is pretty obvious what you are going.  Looks like you are having sex for money. Don't get me wrong here...I am not criticizing your chosen profession.  I am am only saying that we should not kid ourselves what this is all about. You are a prostitue and us guys are buying an illegal service.  People will get busted for this just like many other illegal activities that people chose to do. We all make choices but no one should be shocked the the LE is out there inforcing the laws of our country.

Well put, Sky.  All I have to say is that I am probably your biggest fan who has never even seen you in real life!

But would you be willing to stand up publicly for your right to do what you want with your body? I have been in the adult business for over 12 yrs now and the saddest thing about our little group is that we all are too afraid to go public with our views of how our LE abuses their privleges, community leaders use us as a voting tactic/platform and Neighborhood goody two shoes picket our places of business or call to report suspicious activities.
None of this will ever go away, it will slow down and then start its sticky stench of repression back up the ladder of our political hopefuls moral platforms.
Until we can get a large group of companions, dancers, massage therapists, and other adult business owners to band together and make it known that we won't be crushed under the tyrany of LE, Sheriff Joe, Rick Romley, and so on, we all just sitting ducks in the arcade game they call Bust a Honey lol.
If anyone wants to discuss a serious solution to the problem and a get together to discuss it, email me. I have a big enough mouth to be a voice for everyone, but not big enough pockets to handle the repercussions. A few legal eagles who enjoy the hoby would help as well.
I know this may be a Utopian idea and I may have more luck finding a unicorn playing cribbage with a leprechaun in my underwear drawer but I figured I would put it out there and see what the cosmos send me....
email me at [email protected]

Hey KKK you think we don't smell the donuts on your breath.  We do nothing wrong.  You think you can lie and trick people in the name of the law.  You have no honor and what you do is a crime against humanity.

I smell donuts.

Go away! I knew it all along!

You are way off the mark on your donut comments.  Just a person making objective observations.

Most of us are not shocked that 'LE is out there enforcing the laws of our country'... and by the way, they are not the laws of the country.... Nevada has legal prostitution.

What shocks most of us is that it is illegal for two consenting adults to engage in anything sexual for profit. Why? It is supposed to be a free country where we are entitled to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. Our bodies belong to us and if someone wants to use it to make money why should the government or lawmakers have any say in it? Money is earned and if a man wants to spend it to meet his natural sexual needs then what gives the government or lawmakers the right to say that he can't?

The answer is because we have allowed them to pass these laws and keep passing laws and creating task forces and spending OUR TAX DOLLARS on them to continue to enforce them on us!

Things are only legal or illegal because we have voted for them or allowed others to out vote us on them. The biggest shock of all is that we don't do something about it.

Wrong!!!  This country was not founded on out dated religous beliefs, religion, was not the foundation of our constitution, as the religious right would have us believe. For example prostitution was legal all over the US for almost 150 years after our country was founded.  It has only been in the last 100 years that this moral attitude became part of our laws (what ever happened to seperation of Church and State).  As I have said before on this Board I have heard that in the mid 1850's Prescott, Ariz. had 2 churches, 5 saloons and  10 brothels.  What a place to live.

But don't blame our founding fathers for our moral problems, old Ben Franklin would never have allowed the hobby to be illegal.
Just keep voting for the likes of Bush and Ashcroft and we'll all be in jail.

You just need a SlowStart

-- Modified on 9/3/2003 1:21:00 AM

We do this to ourselves.  I am a member of an adult discussion borad that is heavey on porn and swinging, but when issues like this come up we have all kinds of people that insist that we need to keep electing Republicans so we can keep our guns and have lower taxes.  

We make trade offs all the time.  I was born and raised a Republican but I must say I felt safer with Clinton than I do with Bush.  And maybe it's not so bad to have a president that gets a blowjob now and then.   Sure does make my thinking clearer.

SlowStart

-- Modified on 9/2/2003 10:22:28 PM

-- Modified on 9/3/2003 1:23:10 AM

Donna, sorry to hear the news, but out of curiosity what agency was it that arrested you and if there is anything else you can tell about what happened without incriminating yourself. If there is anything good that could come out of something so terrible as this it would be sharing what you know so it doesn't keep happening to more of us. Maybe being a little more schooled could help.(just a thought)

We can all bitch and moan and some of us can have to deal with LE but how many of us are willing to take the time to get together and work on solutions? I am.

And your real name is????   Come on.  Read two posts down about why we use aliases.

Personally I highly doubt that the law will change because we are complaining that we want it to be different. I mean really, if we could I would but can we? It is not something that I have researched. Government and law are not my best subjects so I am really not sure but, I do know one thing..... if we wanted such to be different, I bet we would have to have a million or more agree that it should be. And, I do not think it would be possible cause we have to many mormons here and to many people who are to not as open about their sexualit1y and in touch with themselves. We have to remember that most are not.

Sky-

I am assuming that you were agreeing with my last post, and I don't understand the whole "donuts" v. "objective comments" that followed.  If I am mistaken, I am confident that you will let me know, baby.

A great philosopher (I won't drop names) once said the more laws a nation has, the less moral the nation becomes.  What that means (to me) is that REAL moral decisions are made by individuals with free will, not with the proverbial gun to their heads.  The intent of law (to me) is to keep the fabric of society and commerce in tact by punishing the most dangerous of its members.  (For example, we outlaw murder, not because it is immoral, but because we don't want citizens or vigilantes to lynch of innocent people in the heat of passion without due process).  To me, the most significnat threat to the fabric of society is the woefully deficient health care and education systems. (Wait a second, though - those things would actually cost money.)

The problem with the laws against controversial consensual sexual activity (whatever that is) is not unique - it is inertia.  If there was a REAL problem (e.g., health issues, costs of enforcement, etc.), I am confidant that the government would actually reconsider the current law in light of the fact that people will do what people do and actually direct changes toward the actual problem (e.g., requiring registration & testing, as opposed to simply banning).  But there are no significant health or safety issues, so why change a law that has been on the books and makes so many good Christians feel so self-righteous?

At the risk of sounding cynical, I would say that a political movement in this area would be fruitless - even to that infamous 9-person legislature known as the Supreme Court.  (In this regard, I think that the laws we are discussing here constitutionally differ from laws geared toward homosexuals.)  The best you can do is encourage everybody you know to be as informed as you are and let democracy do its thing.

That's my 2 cents.

Nobody said that this would be an easy task or that results wouldn't take forever to come about. The simple fact is that if nobody does anything toward improving things they will never change. We have no right to complain if we aren't willing to do something about it.

Ya Baby anytime you hide your TER handle on this type of discussion what do you expect.  I will be happy to help work at political change.  Life is always a struggle.  Might as well choose your struggles.  By the way Ya Baby your Alias only hides you from us not from the KKK or even TER.  You will find that a lot of people who know my handle here know my name. So again why hide from us, could it be you have a different addiction than we have

I am employed in local court house.  I have been to strip clubs with many of cops/deputies  after work.  Letting off steam with beautiful babes offends no one!  Some have said  higher ups are pressing them for busts of dancers, massage therapists and providers.  Cops do what they are told or get hassled themselves. Be cautious, ladies...you are valuable resources!!!!

Hey I just got back in town. They are busting nationwide and have been for years. 28 people were just busted in a "prostitution ring"  in Virginia near DC this ring susposedly streaches into several other states and is an ongoing investigation. Let us just be thankful that they haven't cracked down on us like in DC. Just be careful of references and also of where and how you advertise and conduct you business. I can say traveling is much more fruitful finacially for many and harder for LE to track. Everyone should try to set up with a good agency in another area. Do some research girls!! It is benificial to them to have a fresh face for all their regulars to stay interested. You still work as an independant, make good money, have an established clientele that is already checked out. You can even request your own donation amounts and provide the agency with a referall fee or work on a slightly higher donation rate than the agencies, and have a lot of tips coming to you.

You are exactly right. You have to take a look at this so called religious freedom that our country was based on. I mean look at the Courthouse in Alabama. The local companies that were all aske to move the scriptures from the courthouse refused and yet the government found someone to uphold the laws and move it out. We need to look into cases that won with Larry Flint and the Brothels of Nevada. What made them possible? Who did they have standing behind them or what laws were? Perhaps we should call ourselves by some name, say that we are worshiping the ancient gods of love, sex, and beauty and that everytime we go see a client we are assisting them with a religious ceramony. LOL LOL

Most everybody here knows I'm Brandy and for those who don't, hi, I'm Brandy Baron, licensed massage therapist and owner of A Touch Of Heaven Massage. (It's not like LE doesn't already know who I am! LOL)

Well, Rick, I guess we need to figure out how to get everybody together. Even if we can meet online it's better than being so scattered.

Actually as far as the name is concerned I was referring to Ya Baby.  I think we know you.  But yes count me in.  I will do what I can.

Lyn,
There really is a church like that lol. They originated in SF but have branches in other states as well. The most populated congregations are in San fransico and in Lake Taho.
I recieve their email newsletter once a month with all the Tantra info.
For some reason they aren't bothered by any of the LE agencies of those citys although SF is known for being much more tolorant of sexworkers then anywhere else. I am sure if we started this church here we would LE at every meeting lol.
Hugs and Kisses,
Malissa
for more info on the Tantra Church visit this site:

WE NEVER DELT WITH LITTLE STUFF LIKE THIS, HERE IS THE TRUE DOPE:THIS HAPPEN'S WHEN IT IS T.V. SWEPT'S TIME OR ELECTION TIME!! I THINK THIS SPEAK'S FOR IT SELF!!



-- Modified on 9/4/2003 9:18:06 PM

and that makes it a very hot topic!

That would be one avenue to explore to help ensure sexual freedom and I'm sure that if we look into it we will see others. The point is that nothing is impossible.

OK I admit it, I pay for sex. No lightning bolts? I live through it, and the provider lives through it. I leave happier, and the provider leaves happier... or at least richer. No briuses, not bleeding, just richer. Why is this a crime? It is not a crime in most of Nevada. It is not a crime in most of Europe? Yet in Arizona, they spend more money trying to shut down massage parlors than they do abusive daycare and abusive senior care combined! This is crazy!!

The problem we run into is the same problem that we run into when trying to legalizing marajauna. Behind the curtain of the election booth a majority will vote to legalize it, but not one politician will get on a podium and say "prostitution is good" It is political suicide!

What we need to do is a ballot referendium. It has to be sane, and have teeth. Not the original marajauna referendium that legalized marajauna for medical use, but still had posession illegal.

There is no other way than to go directly to the voters. Politicians will use prostitutes, just like they use marajauna, but they will never stand up in public and say "sex for money is good"

I agree with the precept of religious freedom.  But I would not attribute the state of our laws solely to religious influences.  I would attribute America's comfort with laws re sexual freedom to self-righteousness, which is not necessarily religiously motivated.  Simply put, being sexually repressed makes most Americans feel like they are better people.  And is it any wonder that this is the case - after all, you kids can watch images of some junkie's guts spilling out on pavement on major networks during prime time, but cannot see any nudity whatsover.

but you know we hobbyists get so little opportunities to talk about the big stuff with you providers.

Hear....Hear coyotefan2  ( as I hold up my beer to you )

PROVIDER'S DO YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU A BUSTED THEY CAN GET YOUR CELL PHONE RECORD'S!!

IT ONLY SHOW'S "INCOMMING" CALL, BUT HOW ABOUT THE CALL'S YOU MADE??

DOES THAT NOT SHOW ON YOUR DETAILED BILLING WHEN YOU GET YOUR BILL??

THINK ABOUT THAT!!

-- Modified on 9/6/2003 10:28:00 PM

Donna, I am so sorry to hear what happened to you.  Please don't let this get you down.  And never ever let your guard down again.

-R

This is precisely why we need to organize and put something together. Then it is a matter of showing up before the legislature and making an intelliegent proposal for a bill. It can't be done without organization and thought... but it can be done.

I think before any time is spent trying to legalize this industry we should focus on what the real problem is.  It's  the incredibly negative image that this industry puts out daily.  It's so bad it begs for bad press. It has the same bad image that the illicit drug industry has. An image of Rip Offs, Liars, Intimidation, disease, and sometimes violence.  It has such a street like Reputation that the voting public will never go for it.  

 First off let me say that all of you who participate in this TER forum ARE NOT the problems.  All of you add warmth to this chilling industry. Having said that, this Industry somehow needs to CLEAN HOUSE before it can ever expect to sell itself to the  Public.

For example, a while back there were postings about some Pimp-like guys in scottsdale putting out death threats to various providers because they were claiming Scottsdale as their territory.  With that type of activity going on, we can always expect an aggressive law enforcement presence.

Another thing that makes this industry look bad is that incredible breeding grounds for RIP OFF ARTIST's, the online advertising venues and Liquor store publications where there is no Truth in Advertising required.  You have total RIP OFF ARTISTS claiming to be GFE's, luring in respectable, hard working guys who just want to have fun, only to find out how cold this industry can be.  And the word spreads.  This type of activity is a slap in the face to all of us.

Not very good public relations...

Thanks for the link Malissa. I still say it maybe wortha go If not just to piss the piggies off...

Completely true. I live in the downtown area of Phoenix there is a place down the street from my condo where the have an apartment complex FULL of people who have committed sex crimes- molestation, child sexual abuse, rape, and a few who attempted it and got caught. I can't believe that the goverment put 30-40 sex offenders in on zip code to rehabilitate them. There are about 15-20 daycares and schools nearby, not to mention all the women who are at risk. The government is sitting here trying to bust us and in the mean time has not even bothered to find 4-6 of the convicted sex offenders who they misplaced in my zip code. Come on this is ridiculous. If the want to go after people for sex crimes why don't they go after the ones who are forcing themselves upon little kiddies and women, instead of trying to bust something that if it does happen is completely consentual. Check out the link below. Just type in your zip code and you will be amazed...

That is the oldest excuse in the books. We do not need laws against prostitution. Athletics has a bigger problem with drugs, anger management, wife beatings, rapes, and pimnps (oops, I mean agents). Their image is not nearly as bad as prostitution!

There are already laws on the books, and they should be enforced against assault, theft, rape and murder. These laws need to be enforced. Hookers or pimps who rip off their johns are guilty of theft. Johns or pimps who beat on or rape the hookers are guilty of assault and rape. These laws are on the books. If prostitution was legal, these laws would be easier to enforce. You do not hear of these crimes in legal brothels. It is simply a business transaction.

It is nearly impossible to 'clean up' an illegal business. Once the business is legalized, it is very difficult for it to remain 'dirty'. Best example? Liquor. It created the mob and Al Capone. Legalize it, no mob.....what a suprise!

I don't think we need laws against prostitution either but unfortunately you and i and people who think like we do are such a small minority of the voting population.  The rest of the voters don't even know what a GFE is or about TER, they get their news from sensationalized news stories in the paper that leave them with the creeps after they've read one.

I wonder if we could interest the Indians  in taking on this industry like they did with casino gambling.
The Escort industry could be zoned in nice hotel establishments operated by the Indian Nations.  It might get a bad rap in the news at first but like the casino's, it could eventually become mainstream.

but that is what this forum and us all communicating is all about. It is the best way to reward the good providers with more business from good word of mouth and punish the rip offs and fakes by exposing them to everyone.

Another good reason for us all to work together ;o)

Judging by how big the adult industry is I wouldn't consider us such a minority. The problem is that most fear ridicule and possible serious repercussions if they speak up for it and speaking up for it is the only way to get it out to the public and up for any votes.

That's why i said, 'No guts, no glory!'

Donna & Foxy Kay: Sorry to hear about your busts. You have balls to admit it,though, unlike others who pretend they're still  busted for prostitution.  
a) What did he ask for, specifically? Were you sloppy or coy?
b) What were his actions?
c) What did you specifically agree to?
d) What did you say for sure?
d) What were your female intuitive thoughts at first?
e) What would you do differently,other than check reference?

thx