Snijder's error is in that he doesn't realize that there's an admission price to accessing information here or participating in discussions. The shilling is that admission price (among other things which need not be discussed here, but is invariably passed on to the end user). Nothing really is for free. I mean, how long does one have to watch $250 pussy being marked up several fold to understand that little concept?
While I have been long of opinion that running an agency really isn't a self-respecting man's business (some of my ancestors absolutely made the right call when putting paper out on the Mafia's first pimp, Lucky Luciano, but I digress), that opinion is irrelevant here. Suffice to say the better idea is that the Jacks and Scotts, and yes, our Dear Leader Staffs, they saw an opportunity and ran with it. All the way to the bank. Can't get more American than that.
All the BS aside, they appear, from all indications to offer a good product, and they're gentlemen of integrity. So the advertising is not in traditional form, rather more like an infomercial. If you don't like, it, you can vote with your wallet.
Or, you could stick around, offer nothing enjoyable or constructive, complain (of course we'll only read it when you manage to write something approvable), and hope that there is a provider out there who either doesn't figure out who you are before booking you, or is so desparate for cash that she'll see anybody (even you). Oh wait...that's your current situation, isn't it?
There is a variety of commenatry on this board. Some about the agencies, some about the Indy population, some about general topics of interest. etc etc etc.
Snijder's error is in that he doesn't realize that there's an admission price to accessing information here or participating in discussions. The shilling is that admission price (among other things which need not be discussed here, but is invariably passed on to the end user). Nothing really is for free. I mean, how long does one have to watch $250 pussy being marked up several fold to understand that little concept?
While I have been long of opinion that running an agency really isn't a self-respecting man's business (some of my ancestors absolutely made the right call when putting paper out on the Mafia's first pimp, Lucky Luciano, but I digress), that opinion is irrelevant here. Suffice to say the better idea is that the Jacks and Scotts, and yes, our Dear Leader Staffs, they saw an opportunity and ran with it. All the way to the bank. Can't get more American than that.
All the BS aside, they appear, from all indications to offer a good product, and they're gentlemen of integrity. So the advertising is not in traditional form, rather more like an infomercial. If you don't like, it, you can vote with your wallet.
This has historically been an indie town (and one of the best in the nation). It still has one of the strongest and best indie groups anywhere. You You are equating "shilling" with the agencies...but look at my post...3 of the last 4 "shills" were for indies. The simple reality is that the agencies have a huge number of new gals per month compared to the indie scene so that is where the "news" and there for the "shills" are.
As for pricing, the average indie price here is actually higher then the average agency price. Certainly alot of indies have guys who are regulars at grandfathered rates, but for someone from out of town the agencies offer a better bang for the book in many instances (certainly not all).
Now I agree totally that this market is totally overcooked pricewise compared to others around the country....basically we now have damm near vegas pricing.
instead of just throwing another log on the fire I'll ask you a couple of questions. Now it appears that you might not be able to get an answer past Dingus...(which takes some serious effort)...
Question 1
What is a "shill"?
To me a shill is repeatedly pushing a product or service to an audience which is already aware. Kind of like that commercial that runs twice in a row....1st time OK...then again...arghhh...reach for remote.
question #2
what exactly were you paying for? The "core product" is the review base....many of your "shills" {just speculating here} are also among the most active reviewers.
As an example I'll pick three recent posts...
sedatim (maggie)...
guy has ample reviews, see's indies and agency gals and isnt a heavy bbs poster. Shill or no shill?
Connery (roxanne)
Connery doesnt review as much but is a regular here. I'd classify him as an indie guy but I think he's fair openminded and willing to entertain the other guys point of view...He reviewed Roxanne back in 7/05 (and was very objective IMO). Roxanne is well respected and has a great following...and the pics ARE great...
chilopsis (sarah & mona)
The title (and post) initially struck me as a bit kiss ass initially. But he's got a short active history and is pretty even handed review wise...
How do you feel about these and why would they offend you in any way?
Now I got these by simply scrolling down from your post and taking the 1st 3 (excluding mine) that I came to....
So is it my post you find so offensive? Just curious on where your coming from. without any further insight I simply have to assume that your seriously tweeked in some way. Hell if I can keep myself from being moderated then i'd assume anyone can....unless your really really deep in left field
wow, that hurt. I am a newbie to the "ter"(a few months), however a hobbiest for a couple of years. I have enjoyed coming out of the closet, so to speak, posting reviews and posting some words on this discussion board. I realize that i may not be up on all the proper protocal on this board, however, I still enjoy the tidbits of info and friendly spirit that seems to be here. I thought my mea culpa was the right thing for me to voice as I did understate the "experience". My thought is , in order to be called a pimp, "the girls" should be paying me. I am pretty sure that that is not happening, so for me there is a disconnect in someones thought process.That being said, I only can speak for my experiences and will continue to do so to the betterment of this board. I am always pleased to have honest dialogue and hope that will continue here.We have the most incredible girls here in the valley and I will continue to support them, with visits and responses to posts that are in error. thank you for the opportunity to voice my humble opinions.
Chilopsis... I, being a newbie as well appreciate what you posted, and while you are not my pimp, I must say that I adore you in spite of that... LOL Some people are seemingly jealous of others and feel they must post immature items such as this. We see it in CL all the time (what a zoo!) as others have mentioned as well. I am thankful for the reviews I have and I feel that I earned them. I am benefitting from them as well. Being new, that makes a tremendous difference. (It is my GOAL to never have to post on CL again, once I get that good base of regulars) When I get a call from someone who said they saw my reviews in TER, I feel like it is more than likely someone I can "trust" to not be LE. THANK YOU to those of you that post reviews. It is YOU that keep it safe for the hobbyists by providing input. Huge hugs, Maggie
Oh, wow, what an awesome topic! This is totally unreal! I was just thinking about posting this very thing; and, then, presto, just like magic, here it is.
Hmmm, let’s just think about this for awhile. Let’s get insightful and intuitive. Let’s let it sink in.
Let’s pretend we are intellectuals forming an on line focus group or an electronic think tank; and, let’s come up with some very explicit working definition.
Now, just what specific kinds of behavior/s does a person have to engage in to be considered a pimp? Is pimping the same as pandering? (Oh, and this is a good one): Is there a difference between shilling and pimping? If so, what exactly IS the difference?
Why are some activities associated with pimping and pandering felonies, while solicitation and prostitution are not? And,,,
Are there economic, gender or racial biases that need to be considered, and are they the same for pimping and shilling. And,,,
Have any loyal members of this community (either client or provider) ever known or had any personal dealings with a pimp or someone who shills.
If one shills for money or favors is that pimping?
Now—with no racial profiling intended—I’z dun op’d ya unda tanz wah di’z ta’n…
Seriously, what exactly is a pimp and what exactly is a shill. Does a pimp shill? Does a shill pimp. Where do we draw the line, and more importantly where does LE draw the line? I am very curious about your thoughts on the issue.
Pimps coerce, manipulate and control. They are evil and not to be trusted. They treat people as commodities. They creat misery and that is not what this community is all about.
there are lots of reasons you might find what you call "pimping" posts. Some may be like me, just happy as a clam about an experience and sharing the good fortune to other hobbyists. Others may indeed be shilling as a favor to a friend. Still others may offer praise hoping to please the women he buys favors from. That person is needy, wants to feel appreciated, and hopes his post will elicit an appreciative response. And even if it doesn't elicit any response, perhaps that guy feels as if he belongs to a community by posting, and that feels good to him.
One of the nice things about this board is that it tends to be filled almost entirely with well thought out and intelligent discussion of the topic that interests all us most: Providers. I don't think it is either "pimping" (which is a word by which I am at least a little offended) or "shilling" when someone chooses to share their good fortune with the rest of us.
It can be difficult, sometimes, to find a Provider with whom everything is just right. While there are many excellent Providers to be found here, each person's tastes vary, and a Provider who is perfect for me may not work as well for you, and vice versa. It doesn't mean she isn't a good, or even excellent Provider. It simply means we're different.
I have, on several occasions, posted messages about Providers who I think are less well known than they should be, and with whom I had a particularly good experience. I know that sometimes may help someone to find just the right girl for him.
I have been fortunate enough to choose girls based on the posts of some of my friends and colleagues on this board, and I have found that many of them were excellent choices that worked for me very well.
I don't believe this board has been taken over by anyone. Dingus keeps it well moderated, and we all try to talk politely and intelligently to one another.
For the sort of posting you seem to enjoy doing, I would suggest Craig's List. They seem to do a lot of nonsense of this sort there, and I think you might be happier.
Pimping is all about money, money, money; and, favors, favors, favors. Pimping is all about power and control. Pimps are sick, pathetic, sleaze ball, parasites. They are scum bag felons who ruin lives and profit from the misery of others. They turn people out and coerce people to do things against their will.
Shilling is putting in a good word for a friend. It’s a form of advertising. If a shill profits from his activity in other than a gratuitous fashion, the line has been crossed. That person is a pimp. Pimps are subhuman. They are not to be tolerated. Their lives should be ruined…
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